was Haye fight as one sided?

[jamesmcdonnell]

The way people are talking on here, you would have thought Mormeck was never at the races.

I watched it live, admittedly from the cheap seats, but from where I was sitting, Haye wasn't going well at all at the point he got the stoppage.

Mormeck was boxing well, and was catching most of what Haye threw with his gloves, when the stoppage came, I was actually very surprised, as I thought Haye looked laboured in there, and a lot of his shots were very wide and missing the mark.

The shot he got Mormeck with the uppercut, was however fantastic, and the follow up that landed behind the ear sickened Mormeck for sure.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that Haye was hurt earlier in the fight when he was dropped, as he took a long count. If he wasn't, why else take so long about getting up. It was clear on the replays that a shot that sent him into the ropes and then down.

I'm happy for Haye, and he deserved the win, there's no lucky punches in boxing, but I think that people have ignored the fact that Mormeck looked to be going well at the point the fight was stopped. I didn't think he looked tired and he seemed to be comfortable to me.

Maybe it looked different from ringside, but just calling it as I saw it. I had Mormeck ahead at the time of the stoppage.

[TerribleTerry]

For the first 4 or 5 rounds, before Mormeck started blowing out of his arse, I thought he was doing a great job of walking Haye down - making the Brit move and work as he rolled forward with decent defence and hurtful hooking combos.

The manner of Haye's win was fantastic as he over came a difficult period, altered his fight plan and closed the show with bombs. Mormeck, however, was bossing the early going for my money.

The fact that Haye WASN'T in control of the fight for a good portion makes his win all the more spectacular!

[Kilburn]

Find the round by round thread James. It looked to most of us like Haye was in a lot of shit until Mormeck fell apart.

[Autobarn]

Haye broke him down most of the way. Apart from rd 4 he was riding the right hands. He whacked Mormeck's body consitently and as far as I'm concerned, that broke down the Frenchman & set up the uppercuts, etc.

Mormeck was well out of sorts. Out of range, not breaking his man down at all, just scoring isolated rights and having most of his body shots blocked. I disagree with most of this thread. haye woke up after 4 and 5. if he hadn't KO'd Mormeck in the 7th he would have dominated the rest of the way.

[KO Artist]

The way people are talking on here, you would have thought Mormeck was never at the races.

I watched it live, admittedly from the cheap seats, but from where I was sitting, Haye wasn't going well at all at the point he got the stoppage.

Mormeck was boxing well, and was catching most of what Haye threw with his gloves, when the stoppage came, I was actually very surprised, as I thought Haye looked laboured in there, and a lot of his shots were very wide and missing the mark.

The shot he got Mormeck with the uppercut, was however fantastic, and the follow up that landed behind the ear sickened Mormeck for sure.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that Haye was hurt earlier in the fight when he was dropped, as he took a long count. If he wasn't, why else take so long about getting up. It was clear on the replays that a shot that sent him into the ropes and then down.

I'm happy for Haye, and he deserved the win, there's no lucky punches in boxing, but I think that people have ignored the fact that Mormeck looked to be going well at the point the fight was stopped. I didn't think he looked tired and he seemed to be comfortable to me.

Maybe it looked different from ringside, but just calling it as I saw it. I had Mormeck ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Mormeck was a very good champion.

When Haye went down and got up he was gone. Mormeck made a good job of combining Winky Wright defense (gloves open) and Joe Frazier Bobbing.

At the end I had JMM in front.

When I watched the fight again with my dad today (my dad was a former gymnast). He commented that both of em looked knackered for blokes who were about the same weight as Jerry Quarry.

My Dad said that Mormeck and Haye looked like Sprinters or Gymnasts. Quick power but no staying power?

I am inclined to agree. What do you think?

Are boxers too musclebound these days?

[TerribleTerry]

Are boxers too musclebound these days?

Some are undoubtedly, especially amongst the heavyweights.

Shannon Briggs being the best example I can think of - I dont care if he reckons he has asthma - lay off the weights Shannon and your gas tak would improve ten fold.

Just look at one of the worlds best Joe Calzaghe, he will only ever have done very minimal, if any, weight training and he can box all night long with plenty to spare. He doesnt need 'T Shirt muscles' to box people's heads off.

Boxing is very rarely ever about physical strength alone (although a fighter does need a certain 'solidity' about him to stop others just walking through his shots) - its a technique and timing sport for my money.

Put down the dumb bells, get back to floor work for conditioning and we might just see a few better, higher paced fights. (I know you cant generalise completely like this but there does seem to be an over reliance on body building/power lifting type weights routines by some these days.)

[KO Artist]

Are boxers too musclebound these days?

Some are undoubtedly, especially amongst the heavyweights.

Shannon Briggs being the best example I can think of - I dont care if he reckons he has asthma - lay off the weights Shannon and your gas tak would improve ten fold.

Just look at one of the worlds best Joe Calzaghe, he will only ever have done very minimal, if any, weight training and he can box all night long with plenty to spare. He doesnt need 'T Shirt muscles' to box people's heads off.

Boxing is very rarely ever about physical strength alone (although a fighter does need a certain 'solidity' about him to stop others just walking through his shots) - its a technique and timing sport for my money.

Put down the dumb bells, get back to floor work for conditioning and we might just see a few better, higher paced fights. (I know you cant generalise completely like this but there does seem to be an over reliance on body building/power lifting type weights routines by some these days.)

Calzaghe is quoted as saying he never lifted weights. He can do 12 rounds on two lungfulls.

Tyson never lifted prior to incarcertion.

Nor did Hagler Hearns Leonard or Liston

I think boxers are too much into weights these days. Most are fucked
after 8

To answer James McD question, Moremeck was winning till the end.

Small as he is Mormeck could beat Enzo or any HW champ for that matter

[SticknMove]

Are boxers too musclebound these days?

Some are undoubtedly, especially amongst the heavyweights.

Shannon Briggs being the best example I can think of - I dont care if he reckons he has asthma - lay off the weights Shannon and your gas tak would improve ten fold.

Just look at one of the worlds best Joe Calzaghe, he will only ever have done very minimal, if any, weight training and he can box all night long with plenty to spare. He doesnt need 'T Shirt muscles' to box people's heads off.

Boxing is very rarely ever about physical strength alone (although a fighter does need a certain 'solidity' about him to stop others just walking through his shots) - its a technique and timing sport for my money.

Put down the dumb bells, get back to floor work for conditioning and we might just see a few better, higher paced fights. (I know you cant generalise completely like this but there does seem to be an over reliance on body building/power lifting type weights routines by some these days.)

Absolutely right.

Weight based training in boxing works only to an extent. It is linear in its nature and promotes stength and power. Boxing is more dynamic than that. Calzaghe epitomises the opposite view.

[stujones]

Absolutely, if I ever get into the coaching side of things no fecking way I would have a dumb bell, bench press machine near the place. The ONLY time I actually (personally speaking) found them good is using light dumbell just prior to a fight, spar - a good warm up tool.

However, you just cannot beat the bag for training. Heavy and speed.

[SticknMove]

The way people are talking on here, you would have thought Mormeck was never at the races.

I watched it live, admittedly from the cheap seats, but from where I was sitting, Haye wasn't going well at all at the point he got the stoppage.

Mormeck was boxing well, and was catching most of what Haye threw with his gloves, when the stoppage came, I was actually very surprised, as I thought Haye looked laboured in there, and a lot of his shots were very wide and missing the mark.

The shot he got Mormeck with the uppercut, was however fantastic, and the follow up that landed behind the ear sickened Mormeck for sure.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that Haye was hurt earlier in the fight when he was dropped, as he took a long count. If he wasn't, why else take so long about getting up. It was clear on the replays that a shot that sent him into the ropes and then down.

I'm happy for Haye, and he deserved the win, there's no lucky punches in boxing, but I think that people have ignored the fact that Mormeck looked to be going well at the point the fight was stopped. I didn't think he looked tired and he seemed to be comfortable to me.

Maybe it looked different from ringside, but just calling it as I saw it. I had Mormeck ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Haye looked vulnerable. With the low left he allowed himself to backed up (TO THE FOOKING ROPES) where it becomes a crapshoot whether he ships one. Absolutely nonsensicle on his part.

But you have to allow for the fact that he as a honest fella and said 'he was weight drained, had little in his legs (and being put down revealed that to him) and couldn't put punches together as he would like.

Whilst being enthused by him doing the business in the champs backyard I have my doubts about Haye's ability to step it up at HW. But I do not want to take anything from his accomplishment on the night.

Fantastic achievement

[KO Artist]

The way people are talking on here, you would have thought Mormeck was never at the races.

I watched it live, admittedly from the cheap seats, but from where I was sitting, Haye wasn't going well at all at the point he got the stoppage.

Mormeck was boxing well, and was catching most of what Haye threw with his gloves, when the stoppage came, I was actually very surprised, as I thought Haye looked laboured in there, and a lot of his shots were very wide and missing the mark.

The shot he got Mormeck with the uppercut, was however fantastic, and the follow up that landed behind the ear sickened Mormeck for sure.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that Haye was hurt earlier in the fight when he was dropped, as he took a long count. If he wasn't, why else take so long about getting up. It was clear on the replays that a shot that sent him into the ropes and then down.

I'm happy for Haye, and he deserved the win, there's no lucky punches in boxing, but I think that people have ignored the fact that Mormeck looked to be going well at the point the fight was stopped. I didn't think he looked tired and he seemed to be comfortable to me.

Maybe it looked different from ringside, but just calling it as I saw it. I had Mormeck ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Haye looked vulnerable. With the low left he allowed himself to backed up (TO THE FOOKING ROPES) where it becomes a crapshoot whether he ships one. Absolutely nonsensicle on his part.

But you have to allow for the fact that he as a honest fella and said 'he was weight drained, had little in his legs (and being put down revealed that to him) and couldn't put punches together as he would like.

Whilst being enthused by him doing the business in the champs backyard I have my doubts about Haye's ability to step it up at HW. But I do not want to take anything from his accomplishment on the night.

Fantastic achievement

What do you mean step it up at HW?

Haye weihed in at 200, boiled down. In the ring lets say he was 210

Holyfield defended aginst Bowe (who was 235) at 205, and that was the MOST he could weigh.

Haye is ALREADY a Heavyweight.

Boxing at championship level should be banned at over 240lbs

[SticknMove]

The way people are talking on here, you would have thought Mormeck was never at the races.

I watched it live, admittedly from the cheap seats, but from where I was sitting, Haye wasn't going well at all at the point he got the stoppage.

Mormeck was boxing well, and was catching most of what Haye threw with his gloves, when the stoppage came, I was actually very surprised, as I thought Haye looked laboured in there, and a lot of his shots were very wide and missing the mark.

The shot he got Mormeck with the uppercut, was however fantastic, and the follow up that landed behind the ear sickened Mormeck for sure.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that Haye was hurt earlier in the fight when he was dropped, as he took a long count. If he wasn't, why else take so long about getting up. It was clear on the replays that a shot that sent him into the ropes and then down.

I'm happy for Haye, and he deserved the win, there's no lucky punches in boxing, but I think that people have ignored the fact that Mormeck looked to be going well at the point the fight was stopped. I didn't think he looked tired and he seemed to be comfortable to me.

Maybe it looked different from ringside, but just calling it as I saw it. I had Mormeck ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Haye looked vulnerable. With the low left he allowed himself to backed up (TO THE FOOKING ROPES) where it becomes a crapshoot whether he ships one. Absolutely nonsensicle on his part.

But you have to allow for the fact that he as a honest fella and said 'he was weight drained, had little in his legs (and being put down revealed that to him) and couldn't put punches together as he would like.

Whilst being enthused by him doing the business in the champs backyard I have my doubts about Haye's ability to step it up at HW. But I do not want to take anything from his accomplishment on the night.

Fantastic achievement

What do you mean step it up at HW?

Haye weihed in at 200, boiled down. In the ring lets say he was 210

Holyfield defended aginst Bowe (who was 235) at 205, and that was the MOST he could weigh.

Haye is ALREADY a Heavyweight.

Boxing at championship level should be banned at over 240lbs

Well OK wrong word.

I meant step up to HW. Haye may be a HW boiling down and and getting the win, but he looks so vulnerable that I have my doubts about him at the more comfortable weight. Time will tell and I hope I'm wrong.

PS. Comparing Haye to Holyfield doesn't need any comtemplating on with all due respect.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I do wonder whether Haye was weight drained. He seemed to spend long periods of the fight on the ropes, and his punch output was pretty low without. He also seemed to struggle to get past Mormecks guard.

I wasn't really close enough to see if Mormeck was blowing or not, but he was certainly very musclebound.

Haye has moved up and then back down in weight, which could well explain it if he was feeling the pace.

Didn't know about the round by round, only got back this evening.

[punchers chance]

The way people are talking on here, you would have thought Mormeck was never at the races.

Well he was more than at the races, Mormeck was almost at the finishing line with that KD.

He seemed to tire very quickly in the 6th and stopped throwing as many punches. At that point I started to feel less anxious than I had in the 4th and 5th, but I didn't see the stoppage coming, and I doubt anyone did, if they are honest.

Terry D's comments about Mormeck were spot on - he cannot maintain the pace, but let's not detract from Haye's performance here. He was a good champion.

[Chambers2]

The way people are talking on here, you would have thought Mormeck was never at the races.

I watched it live, admittedly from the cheap seats, but from where I was sitting, Haye wasn't going well at all at the point he got the stoppage.

Mormeck was boxing well, and was catching most of what Haye threw with his gloves, when the stoppage came, I was actually very surprised, as I thought Haye looked laboured in there, and a lot of his shots were very wide and missing the mark.

The shot he got Mormeck with the uppercut, was however fantastic, and the follow up that landed behind the ear sickened Mormeck for sure.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that Haye was hurt earlier in the fight when he was dropped, as he took a long count. If he wasn't, why else take so long about getting up. It was clear on the replays that a shot that sent him into the ropes and then down.

I'm happy for Haye, and he deserved the win, there's no lucky punches in boxing, but I think that people have ignored the fact that Mormeck looked to be going well at the point the fight was stopped. I didn't think he looked tired and he seemed to be comfortable to me.

Maybe it looked different from ringside, but just calling it as I saw it. I had Mormeck ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Well done David Haye and thank you Stan James :-) Excellent performance in the lions den against the then best 200lber in the world, what a clinical, powerful precise finish. He showed his warrior like heart in there on Saturday

I had it 3 rounds a piece going into the 7th (with a 10-8 for JMM) the same as the commentators, the fight was still in the balance however JMM looked to be the one who was tiring more. Haye was definately hurt by the knockdown and was on unsteady legs for the rest of the round.

The Haye knockdown, Haye got caught with a decent shot when he was off balance causing him to slip then he shipped another 1 or 2 whilst crouched down leaning on the ropes where he wisely took a knee and put his glove on the deck. He was definately shook up, he put it down to being weight-drained in the post fight interview.

The powerful hooks that Haye been landing consistently to the body caught up with JMM and took his legs away, Haye seemed to realise this and he took him out clinically. The uppercut was a beauty and the one that hit him around the ear on JMM's way down instantly finished it.

I'd love to see Haye-Enzo, but its not going to happen anytime soon unless they can agree on a catchweight contest. Hayes too BIG for cruiser and Enzos too small for heavy, so the only option is the catchweight route IMO, which lets face it is just another major obstacle to overcome in a fight thats already surrounded by them. Hopefully they'll get somat sorted, but if not BRING ON THE HEAVIES!!!! they're in a whole world of shit.

I've followed Haye closely right from the start of his career and it was great to see him accomplish his first major goal. What a fight and what a night 8)

[johnswan1]

I do wonder whether Haye was weight drained. He seemed to spend long periods of the fight on the ropes, and his punch output was pretty low without. He also seemed to struggle to get past Mormecks guard.

I wasn't really close enough to see if Mormeck was blowing or not, but he was certainly very musclebound.

Haye has moved up and then back down in weight, which could well explain it if he was feeling the pace.

Didn't know about the round by round, only got back this evening.

Hi James, I assume you didn't get to see the post fight interview. Haye himself said he was weight drained for the fight and only realised the extent of it when he got hurt and his legs went. He said they were very unsteady but that it proved to him how he needed to step up to heavyweight in order to have better legs. He said his camp in Cyprus was great but that he's giving the titles up immediately to move up. He also mentioned Enzo and said that he was prepared to fight him, but not for those belts at Cruiser. Afterwards in the studio, Enzo was visably disappointed at not being able to have a crack at the belts and practically ruled out moving up to fight Haye as he'd be unnecessarily disadvantaged by allowing Haye to come in a stone or two heavier than him. He also said that his walking around weight is inside the limit and sitting in the studio he was 4 lbs under.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I do wonder whether Haye was weight drained. He seemed to spend long periods of the fight on the ropes, and his punch output was pretty low without. He also seemed to struggle to get past Mormecks guard.

I wasn't really close enough to see if Mormeck was blowing or not, but he was certainly very musclebound.

Haye has moved up and then back down in weight, which could well explain it if he was feeling the pace.

Didn't know about the round by round, only got back this evening.

Hi James, I assume you didn't get to see the post fight interview. Haye himself said he was weight drained for the fight and only realised the extent of it when he got hurt and his legs went. He said they were very unsteady but that it proved to him how he needed to step up to heavyweight in order to have better legs. He said his camp in Cyprus was great but that he's giving the titles up immediately to move up. He also mentioned Enzo and said that he was prepared to fight him, but not for those belts at Cruiser. Afterwards in the studio, Enzo was visably disappointed at not being able to have a crack at the belts and practically ruled out moving up to fight Haye as he'd be unnecessarily disadvantaged by allowing Haye to come in a stone or two heavier than him. He also said that his walking around weight is inside the limit and sitting in the studio he was 4 lbs under.

Ah right, that makes perfect sense then, I thought Haye looked very fragile in there, and given his comments, it all fits into place now.

[Autobarn]

Ultimately, here's what I think and here is why I think Haye done good. Even in his bad rounds he was blasting that body which paid off. These shots to the body were really accurate and brought JMM's gloves down. Somehow the body shots reminded me of a big stapler. I like that methodical purpose.

Haye lost an early rd, lost the 4th big and lost the fifth. But I was impressed the way he stayed composed and took over. Really good performance by Haye, all the better that he beat a tough guy, and all the more impressive under the circumstances (away from home, weight drained).

Enzo Mac must feel a right tit, saying that if Frago hit harder Haye wouldn't be here. Macca's really offhand and lost himsef a lot of fans over the last 2 weeks (with that he said about haye, and with the Ding Wilson episode).

[Datsue]

Hallo James.

Was looking out for you -- thought I saw you in Montmartre in the afternoon but missed you Saturday night in the lobby -- the missus & I were ringside so we had to go through about twenty doors & up a dozen staircases to get in.

From where I was sitting the bodyshots were the key; Mormeck was really crumpling around them when they went in. Haye couldn't get his straight right on & only when he began to get a bit desperate looking did he really turn the fight -- when he stopped trying to be precise & just fuckin' sat down on the shots he began to blast through Mormeck's guard.

As I said on my ringside thread there was a right uppercut at the end of the sixth that sent a little shiver through JMM, like he was made of jelly, & he shook his head slightly walking back to the corner. That was the turning point, I think.

Mormeck was cringing from the body shots, especially the wide right to the edge of the ribs. I'm not surprised though, they'd've snapped me clean in half!

Un vraiment champion, though; I honestly had my heart in my mouth all the way. Hell of a fight. Oh, I had JMM two points clear.

@ Autobarn: Totally agree with everything you say there (apart from the Enzo stuff, I haven't seen it on TV yet).

[WildWaylon]

The way people are talking on here, you would have thought Mormeck was never at the races.

I watched it live, admittedly from the cheap seats, but from where I was sitting, Haye wasn't going well at all at the point he got the stoppage.

Mormeck was boxing well, and was catching most of what Haye threw with his gloves, when the stoppage came, I was actually very surprised, as I thought Haye looked laboured in there, and a lot of his shots were very wide and missing the mark.

The shot he got Mormeck with the uppercut, was however fantastic, and the follow up that landed behind the ear sickened Mormeck for sure.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that Haye was hurt earlier in the fight when he was dropped, as he took a long count. If he wasn't, why else take so long about getting up. It was clear on the replays that a shot that sent him into the ropes and then down.

I'm happy for Haye, and he deserved the win, there's no lucky punches in boxing, but I think that people have ignored the fact that Mormeck looked to be going well at the point the fight was stopped. I didn't think he looked tired and he seemed to be comfortable to me.

Maybe it looked different from ringside, but just calling it as I saw it. I had Mormeck ahead at the time of the stoppage.

The American commentator said it was a slip, but Haye admitted it was a punch that put him down - Fair play to Haye for his honesty - Mormeck was tiring and Haye was just holding his own when Haye put Mormeck down - Pretty even on points at that stage, I think - Haye admitted he was weight drained and therefore not 100% so having conquered the CW division he must move up - Enzo doesnt fancy Hayes weight advantage so thats that - Thought Enzo could of been more pleased for Haye even though they are rivals (or were) - Simple answer though as far as I am concerned, Haye ruined Enzos gameplan which has put him right at the top - Enzo has to target Cunningham now to get his credibility back and show he is worthy of the top position after David moves up - Other options wouldnt give him a right to that position IMO.

[MightyWarrior]

How anyone could think that was a slip is beyond belief, his legs were going in six different directions at once, as were his eyes.

I really thought he'd blown his chance, to be honest. The body shots did look brutal, but I thought he might not be around long enough for them to pay off.

The way he holds his left down, and turns his head away, or leans back, to avoid punches spells doom...sooner or later.

The Observer writer said Haye won "almost despite himself" and I know what he means.

Great win and it's going to be fantastic to watch him punch out a few heavies, but you can guarantee that he's gonna get flattened at heavyweight if he keeps taking those chances.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I have to say I agree.

Haye will probably be better physically at heavyweight, but he still has to develop some sort of guard.

His power was his 'get out of jail card' against Mormeck, but he came mighty close to being stopped himself, and at no point for me did Haye ever look to be in real control of the fight. Of course, without being weight drained, he will be able to move better and punch more, but he is going to get tagged by heavyweights at some point, and if he doesn't have that guard up, he's going to get spanked.

You have to be so quick and agile to get away with having that left hand low, very few fighters have employed it successfully, and most of those were constantly mobile, like Whittaker and Roy Jones Jr. Jones was so quick he could afford to take liberties like that.

[hitman_hatton1]

i had mormeck up by 1 pt.

he had that dodgy 4th and lost the 5th.

but came back well in rd 6 and did that nice little move out of a corner to suggest he still had plenty.

perhaps u wanna pay for more expensive seats next time james.

[Autobarn]

Hallo James.

Was looking out for you -- thought I saw you in Montmartre in the afternoon but missed you Saturday night in the lobby -- the missus & I were ringside so we had to go through about twenty doors & up a dozen staircases to get in.

From where I was sitting the bodyshots were the key; Mormeck was really crumpling around them when they went in. Haye couldn't get his straight right on & only when he began to get a bit desperate looking did he really turn the fight -- when he stopped trying to be precise & just fuckin' sat down on the shots he began to blast through Mormeck's guard.

As I said on my ringside thread there was a right uppercut at the end of the sixth that sent a little shiver through JMM, like he was made of jelly, & he shook his head slightly walking back to the corner. That was the turning point, I think.

Mormeck was cringing from the body shots, especially the wide right to the edge of the ribs. I'm not surprised though, they'd've snapped me clean in half!

Un vraiment champion, though; I honestly had my heart in my mouth all the way. Hell of a fight. Oh, I had JMM two points clear.

@ Autobarn: Totally agree with everything you say there (apart from the Enzo stuff, I haven't seen it on TV yet).

I think that while Haye had trouble prizing open JMM's guard, he was landing body shots of probably heavyweight power. With Mormeck being a guy who turned pro at super middle, and bulked up to light heavy/cruiser, he just didn't have the resistence for a methodical attack. Haye seems a natural big man, outgrowing the weight, while Mormeck's very much a manufactured big bloke.

LOVED watching this fight. I was so hyped up I couldn't take my eyes off the screen to even look at my dinner.

[ArtOfWar]

Find the round by round thread James. It looked to most of us like Haye was in a lot of shit until Mormeck fell apart.

Yeah, that's the impression I got when I read the round by round. Then after downloading the fight and watching it I felt Haye did very well and the fight was about even at the time of the stoppage. Sure Haye went down and was hurt quite badly as he stated himself, but it was a good performance against the best in the division.