haye has done what calzaghe wont do

[boxerbob]

david haye in his first world title attempt went to france to fight the best cruisierweight in the world.

haye as we know knocked moremack out but to go there in your first world title match is impressive.

now joe calzaghe has always had home adavantage , his big 2 fights vs lacy and kessler were at home , now as he reaches retirement he finally wants to fight away from home...why???....its because he aint getting no respect.

joe should have fought in the states 6-8 years ago if he believed he was that good.

haye had balls to go to france....calzaghe will get his kicked when he goes to usa.

[Deserter]

calzaghe will get his kicked when he goes to usa.

Idiotic

[boxerbob]

joe wont even get passed a very old hopkins who beats him on points.

why has joe not went to america sooner?????

hatton and hamed went in thier prime....joe has been happy beating the allegedly and wbo stiffs for 10 years.

ps: why has joe dumped the ibf and now probably the wbc and wba belts???...its because he doesnt want to fight the top challengers...the wbo is an easy ride.

joe is the best in the division there is no doubt but at 35 and by sitting on the wbo belt for 10 years , he doesnt get respect.

kessler and lacy...good wins against live opponents...the rest = not one fighter in thier prime...in 10 years

[Deserter]

joe wont even get passed a very old hopkins who beats him on points.

why has joe not went to america sooner?????

hatton and hamed went in thier prime....joe has been happy beating the allegedly and wbo stiffs for 10 years.

ps: why has joe dumped the ibf and now probably the wbc and wba belts???...its because he doesnt want to fight the top challengers...the wbo is an easy ride.

joe is the best in the division there is no doubt but at 35 and by sitting on the wbo belt for 10 years , he doesnt get respect.

kessler and lacy...good wins against live opponents...the rest = not one fighter in thier prime...in 10 years

Anyone who can reign at the top in a sport as tough as boxing for 10 years deserves respect. Full stop. He got there by beating Eubank and has just turned back the toughest opponent of his career at the age of 35.
While I got disillusioned as anyone when Joe was fighting the Tocker Pudwill's of this world, you have to maintain a balanced perspective.
The fact is that for the majority of Joe's reign there hasn't been an obvious big fight in the States - Hopkins committed to the fight but then wanted his money doubled, while Roy Jones went to light-heavy and then heavy so was out of the running. Name me who he should have been fighting from the States at Super Middle during most of that time!
The most obvious big fight missing from Joe's resume during the period is actually Sven Ottke of Germany, not a US-based challenger.
I'm also a bit sick of the 'you don't get any respect if you don't fight in the States' routine... I don't see many US boxers willing to get on a plane and fight in the UK or Europe - you only have to listen to Hopkins this weekend to hear that he simply won't fight abroad. Now a few years ago there was a case to be made that to make it big you had to make it in the States, but the balance of power has been changing for some time now - fighters like Calzaghe and many of the German-based world champs can make fantastic money and have acclaimed status not just in their own country but also internationally.

[Autobarn]

Joe beat the 2 biggest threats. In all, he can say that the big fights came to him, and that he beat 2 very good fighters.

America hasn't offered much in terms of super middleweight, and all the top Yanks went and got beaten by Joe.

Joe is a far less outgoing person than Haye or Hatton. He's the top fighter in Britain right now, regardless of where he fights.

Yes, it's impressive that Haye - in his 1st ever world title fight - won away from home. We know Joe didn't do that, but Joe had numerous world class fights along the way to unifying (& numerous crap ones). Calzaghe has a different promoter who likes to give his men every advantage and have fighters with long title reigns. Haye wants to basically gamble, win some big fights and retire age 30 when he wins the heavyweight belt. Refreshing, yes, but it's just 1 way.

Different personalities, different promoters. But in no way should you confuse that with one guy being better than the others. Your logic doesn't work. Regardless of what we think, allegedly fighters win the key fights - even if they have to be dragged in the ring.

[rasputin]

calzaghe will get his kicked when he goes to usa.

Idiotic

Would just be interesting to find out who Deserter thinks will kick or would of kicked joes arse in the states during the period he mentions.

Apart from the joke he made about Hopkins

[Deserter]

calzaghe will get his kicked when he goes to usa.

Idiotic

Would just be interesting to find out who Deserter thinks will kick or would of kicked joes arse in the states during the period he mentions.

Apart from the joke he made about Hopkins

I'm confused - are you mistaking my comments with Boxer Bob's?
I was the one pointing out that bar the first few years of Joe's reigns there weren't any big fights in the States on the cards.
If you're asking me who I'd have favoured Stateside over Joe during that period I'd only pick a prime Jones Jr - the only individual who could have taken away Joe's primary asset.. his speed.
And what was the joke I made about Hopkins?

[n1ebf]

Yes I thought straight off that u come in for a bit of undue criticism there haha.

I think the "joke" was suggesting Hopkins would kick Calzaghe's arse.

[Deserter]

Yes I thought straight off that u come in for a bit of undue criticism there haha.

I think the "joke" was suggesting Hopkins would kick Calzaghe's arse.

It was boxerbob who made that claim, not me. I think Calzaghe would win on points in one of the dirtiest, messiest title fights we're likely to see...

[tony3]

Idiotic

Would just be interesting to find out who Deserter thinks will kick or would of kicked joes arse in the states during the period he mentions.

Apart from the joke he made about Hopkins

I'm confused - are you mistaking my comments with Boxer Bob's?
I was the one pointing out that bar the first few years of Joe's reigns there weren't any big fights in the States on the cards.
If you're asking me who I'd have favoured Stateside over Joe during that period I'd only pick a prime Jones Jr - the only individual who could have taken away Joe's primary asset.. his speed.
And what was the joke I made about Hopkins?

I've actually been considering the prime Jones v Calzaghe a lot recently and am wondering whether Calzaghe wouldn't weathered a Jones storm and come back with a late stoppage. There are two things that Joe had over Roy - stamina and a superior chin. Too late to find out now I guess.

Anyway to the topic in hand. Recent history has proven that one of the stiffest challenges in current boxing is running the 'Calzaghe gauntlet' in Britain. He no longer needs to prove himself by going Stateside, if anyone thinks that they are up to the task, they should come to the lion's den.

[Autobarn]

The Calzaghe we've seen in the 2 unification fights is an awesome, adaptable guy who can mix it up, box at a high level and use an insane workrate at a very high level. I can't in any way see this Calzaghe getting demolished by Jones.I think he'd be right in there. Sadly both men have had "no risk" careers for large portions. They both had only 2 "career defining" fights, Joe v Kessler and Lacy, Jones v Toney/Ruiz. Interestingly, Calzaghe pulled out of two fights with Johnson and Jones put off a Tarver fight as long a she humanly could. Both guys made Johnson and Tarver look like Dwight Qawi and Mike Spinks!

[n1ebf]

Calzaghe would have been a champ in any era, people want to get of his back sometimes. Especially British people, cos, as has been said a few times recently....once he's packed it in we won't get another one for a long, long time.

On Johnson though I reckon he'd have posed a very tough fight for Calzaghe on account of 3 things...CORRECT ATTITUDE (otherwise known as balls), FITNESS, and SIZE.

That said Bika was a big rough tough guy and Calzaghe saw him off AND STILL people moaned about that cos it "wasn't a good enough opponent after Jeff "one tactic" Lacy. I thought Calzaghe's win against Bika was excellent personally.

[rasputin]

Idiotic

Would just be interesting to find out who Deserter thinks will kick or would of kicked joes arse in the states during the period he mentions.

Apart from the joke he made about Hopkins

I'm confused - are you mistaking my comments with Boxer Bob's?
I was the one pointing out that bar the first few years of Joe's reigns there weren't any big fights in the States on the cards.
If you're asking me who I'd have favoured Stateside over Joe during that period I'd only pick a prime Jones Jr - the only individual who could have taken away Joe's primary asset.. his speed.
And what was the joke I made about Hopkins?

Sorry about that Deserter i did mean boxerbob.
The missus was doing my head in at the time!! apologies

[mrbassie]

calzaghe will get his kicked when he goes to usa.

By whom, Lacy?

[stujones]

The Calzaghe we've seen in the 2 unification fights is an awesome, adaptable guy who can mix it up, box at a high level and use an insane workrate at a very high level. I can't in any way see this Calzaghe getting demolished by Jones.I think he'd be right in there. Sadly both men have had "no risk" careers for large portions. They both had only 2 "career defining" fights, Joe v Kessler and Lacy, Jones v Toney/Ruiz. Interestingly, Calzaghe pulled out of two fights with Johnson and Jones put off a Tarver fight as long a she humanly could. Both guys made Johnson and Tarver look like Dwight Qawi and Mike Spinks!

Completely different levels of Defining fights... James Toney went on to win another world title and get back into the P4P picture (after Roy Jones fecking up his prime years mentally), and John Ruiz for all his flaws was a MUCH bigger man.

Lacy was an exciting puncher, still yet to prove it at elite level. Kessler looks the goods, has some good wins - but hardly on the league of Toney.

Also - for Roy Jones - There is Virgill Hill - goes on to win the Cruiserweight title on numerous occasion - still officially a champion now actually. Reggie Johnson, Eric Harding and Montell Griffin were very good fighters/champions in their own right - and Lou De Valle was a unification fight. Only Harding (who had just beaten Tarver) was not an occasion in which Jones actually had something to gain. These were not some former champions looking to regain a title (like Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell, Brewer etc) - these were champions defending a title.

What about BHOP?

Perhaps I am overated these, underating Calzaghe's - but Montell Griffin especially looked brilliant in handling Toney, whilst not the most electric fighter - really looked the business. It took Roy two attempts, but he perminantly fucked him up - like I think Joe has done to Lacy.

Plus, I do hope that Haye public struggles with the weight - just show how foolish Roy was, and IMO continues to be, in moving down after Ruiz. Derrick Gainer got incontact on Boxingranks and stressed that's all Roy was doing was eating, eating and eating after Ruiz - he had no intention of moving back down. He is a bit of a fool no doubting that.

Disagree that he waited untill humanly possible to avoid Tarver (a man he fought 3 times) - When Tarver got his mandatory status with the IBF (only 2 fights before that he lost) - Roy was dealing with WBC Mandatory Woods - then there was the move up. He then moves down, controvesially beats Tarver and then gives him a rematch... fair do's. Joe controvesially beat Reid, Robin begged and pleaded for a rematch - no joy.

[Lenny]

Calzaghe is one of the best fighters to come out of Britain and his win against Kessler was a great one but for both the Lacy and Kessler fights to happen it was them who were taking the risk by traveling to another country to try and be the best that they can, Joe has never felt he needed to do this. If Lacy and Kessler had the same personality as Joe/Frank, then the fights do not happen.

Once again Joe is a great fighter but if he can prove himself by going into the lions den and beating a great fighter (like Haye has just done) then in my opinion his legacy is improved 10 fold. If Joe had gone to Germany and knocked out Sven, I don't think there is anything you could put against him

[oliverfennell]

ps: why has joe dumped the ibf and now probably the wbc and wba belts???...its because he doesnt want to fight the top challengers...the wbo is an easy ride.

Yes, he dumped the IBF to avoid the mighty Robert Stielglitz, who showed how dangerous he was against the immortal Alejandro Berrio in his very next fight.

[Deserter]

If Joe had gone to Germany and knocked out Sven, I don't think there is anything you could put against him

Though bear in mind there was an interview with Ottke's trainer recently who admitted that while he wanted Sven to fight Calzaghe, Ottke wasn't keen, so no blame can be placed on Joe for that fight not happening.

[Lenny]

Appreciate that, but i'm just saying if he had done that. He didn't and Calzaghe has still never been an away fighter for a big fight.

There wasn't much effort made from either side for the fight in truth so I think blame could probably be fairly evenly distributed. They were both happy defending at home against other fighters and whilst I feel Calzaghe has now moved clear of Sven, the fact neither was prepared to force the fight harms both their legacies.

[WildWaylon]

Before the fight almost all considered Kessler was Joes toughest opposition among all the SMs in the world and many doubted Joe would beat him, as was the case with Lacy - He beat them both and for me has thus proven he is an ATG - Calzaghe has maintained his fitness and improved his skills and is a better fighter now despite his age than he was years ago - Why cant we just be proud of his achievements instead of continuously knocking him - Claims he only made easy defences, wouldnt travel or ducked certain fighters seem to continue regardless of the fact he beat two fighters even his fans thought he might lose to - Lets not forget Eubank either when he won the WBO belt, he was no walkover for the then relatively inexperianced Calzaghe - Both he and his father have worked hard through the years and both deserve full credit and far less critiscism - I would prefer to see him quit now - Fighting Hopkins is a money maker only and proves nothing - Only that a fit 35yr old can beat a past his best 43yr old and what satisfaction is there in that - Woods for me is a better fight and a chance to be a two weight world champion.

[Max Molyneux]

Who cares about traveling? He won all the belts.

Boxings shit In the US at the moment. There only good division Is Welterweight.

[KO Artist]

david haye in his first world title attempt went to france to fight the best cruisierweight in the world.

haye as we know knocked moremack out but to go there in your first world title match is impressive.

now joe calzaghe has always had home adavantage , his big 2 fights vs lacy and kessler were at home , now as he reaches retirement he finally wants to fight away from home...why???....its because he aint getting no respect.

joe should have fought in the states 6-8 years ago if he believed he was that good.

haye had balls to go to france....calzaghe will get his kicked when he goes to usa.

Silly post. Showing your ignorance.

Calzaghe gets home advantage becuase he sells much more tickets than Haye.

[KO Artist]

david haye in his first world title attempt went to france to fight the best cruisierweight in the world.

haye as we know knocked moremack out but to go there in your first world title match is impressive.

now joe calzaghe has always had home adavantage , his big 2 fights vs lacy and kessler were at home , now as he reaches retirement he finally wants to fight away from home...why???....its because he aint getting no respect.

joe should have fought in the states 6-8 years ago if he believed he was that good.

haye had balls to go to france....calzaghe will get his kicked when he goes to usa.

Silly post. Showing your ignorance.

Calzaghe gets home advantage becuase he sells much more tickets than Haye
Question:

Has Calzaghe fcucked your bird?

[Autobarn]

The Calzaghe we've seen in the 2 unification fights is an awesome, adaptable guy who can mix it up, box at a high level and use an insane workrate at a very high level. I can't in any way see this Calzaghe getting demolished by Jones.I think he'd be right in there. Sadly both men have had "no risk" careers for large portions. They both had only 2 "career defining" fights, Joe v Kessler and Lacy, Jones v Toney/Ruiz. Interestingly, Calzaghe pulled out of two fights with Johnson and Jones put off a Tarver fight as long a she humanly could. Both guys made Johnson and Tarver look like Dwight Qawi and Mike Spinks!

Completely different levels of Defining fights... James Toney went on to win another world title and get back into the P4P picture (after Roy Jones fecking up his prime years mentally), and John Ruiz for all his flaws was a MUCH bigger man.

Lacy was an exciting puncher, still yet to prove it at elite level. Kessler looks the goods, has some good wins - but hardly on the league of Toney.

Also - for Roy Jones - There is Virgill Hill - goes on to win the Cruiserweight title on numerous occasion - still officially a champion now actually. Reggie Johnson, Eric Harding and Montell Griffin were very good fighters/champions in their own right - and Lou De Valle was a unification fight. Only Harding (who had just beaten Tarver) was not an occasion in which Jones actually had something to gain. These were not some former champions looking to regain a title (like Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell, Brewer etc) - these were champions defending a title.

What about BHOP?

Perhaps I am overated these, underating Calzaghe's - but Montell Griffin especially looked brilliant in handling Toney, whilst not the most electric fighter - really looked the business. It took Roy two attempts, but he perminantly fucked him up - like I think Joe has done to Lacy.

Plus, I do hope that Haye public struggles with the weight - just show how foolish Roy was, and IMO continues to be, in moving down after Ruiz. Derrick Gainer got incontact on Boxingranks and stressed that's all Roy was doing was eating, eating and eating after Ruiz - he had no intention of moving back down. He is a bit of a fool no doubting that.

Disagree that he waited untill humanly possible to avoid Tarver (a man he fought 3 times) - When Tarver got his mandatory status with the IBF (only 2 fights before that he lost) - Roy was dealing with WBC Mandatory Woods - then there was the move up. He then moves down, controvesially beats Tarver and then gives him a rematch... fair do's. Joe controvesially beat Reid, Robin begged and pleaded for a rematch - no joy.

They are different levels of opponents. All I'm saying is both fought 2 main fights when they could have had handfuls of big battles.

Kessler's an excellent fighter and if he beats more world class super middles I think he'll hold up to Toney. Kessler has a very good resume, and there's a fantastic line up that he can define himself vs. Jones did beat a raw Hopkins, he beat a drained, already dethroned Hill, etc. Toney was excellent but had the wrong attitude and was dead @ the weight. We can pick faults both sides; it'd go on forever.

I'm not sold on Jones v Tarver. Jones did fight him 3 x - when Tarver became a money opponent guaranteeing repeat PPV fights after Jones got jittery about fighting heavyweights like Corrie Sanders. Tarver won an IBF elim, and Jones asked the IBF to make Tarver fight another elim, which Tarver then lost. Tarver then had to fight another elim, which he won (!), and then made so much noise that RJJ eventually fought him...When Jones nearly lost, Tarver became Mr Kryptonite, and the sequels were some of RJJ's most lucrative fights.

[stujones]

All very well, Autobarn - but you can say that about anyone really. For example, Evander Holyfield - Bowe and Tyson... lets conviently forget about Moorer, Foreman, Lewis, Quai, De Leon, Rahman etc.

How can you say that Jones has only fought 2 main men - and dismiss Virgill Hill and BHOP like that. Both of whom were in the top 10 P4P lists for most of the 90's (lower half admitedly) and in BHOP's case - all of the 21st century also.

Kessler and Lacy have never been in the top ten P4P yet, and in Lacy's case not looking likely he ever will.

Roy has fought 4 (of the top of my head) ex or would be P4P top 10 claimants - Joe has fought none.