Will winning WBA & WBC fast track Haye to heavy challeng

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 12 Nov 2007, 09:45

Just wondering how this will work. Haye is reported to have spoken about being world champion at heavy within three years. Aren't champions who move up a weight fast tracked through to be contenders when they step up? Is it a case of Haye wanting to work his way up or would he have to spend that much time moving up the rankings with the WBC and WBA? I am guessing it's the former and that if he really wanted to he could be challenging for one of these belts by early 2009 (assuming he fights twice in 2008).

Flav1 · Post by **Flav1** » 12 Nov 2007, 09:55

Don't the respective Councils/organisations/federations rank a fighter on their performances the at weight below?

I would have thought Haye would take his time anyway. He's very young at Heavy and won't come into his peak for another 4-5 years. He should pace himself by fighter low end ranked fighters. Audley Harrision would do for a first fight, Greenburg would be a test (but he's limited and Haye would demolish him). Then perhaps challege for a minor title.

Is there any boxers in the heavyweight division that Haye wouldn't have a chance against? Klitch? Valuev?

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 12 Nov 2007, 10:01

Depends what route he takes i guess, even after the win over Mormeck he will still be relatively unknown in the states, so he won't be able to command a big fight quickly with the TV stations over there.

It took Holyfield 6 fights and 2 years before getting a title shot, obviously the title was unified by Tyson at the time, so this made getting a shot more differcult.

Haye could look at going for the Euro title, but i would rather he took on a couple of durable journyman type boxers, to get used to the heavys.
Then move it up to a Sprott type of level.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Nov 2007, 10:03

think he'll be marketable with the Mormeck win behind him. He can probably work his way up sensibly with good publicity and decent opposition.

Just like he had to build up to world level by learning vs Euo guys, he may have to do the same again. No point having a title shot unless you've developed the skills to win it.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 12 Nov 2007, 10:16

Reckon he'll be top 15 in 2 or 3 fights. If that.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Nov 2007, 10:45

Obviously, it should give him a good step up - but it didn't do J.C.Gomez much a of a headstart.

He beat Sam, who got an eliminator first. He's now needed to beat McCall twice.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 12 Nov 2007, 11:18

Well he beat Bonin who was ranked 11 so he'll be In the WBC's top 15.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 12 Nov 2007, 12:44

i would say vidoz, then euro title, then fringe contender like oquendo or someone, then shot at whoever

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Nov 2007, 14:20

Max Molyneux wrote:Well he beat Bonin who was ranked 11 so he'll be In the WBC's top 15.

Not sure if the WBC bothered to rank him, because he moved back down to cruiser. Maybe he gets it back when he moves up. Having a WBC cruiser title probably nudges him up a bit as well.

Obviously, it should give him a good step up - but it didn't do J.C.Gomez much a of a headstart.

He beat Sam, who got an eliminator first. He's now needed to beat McCall twice.

I think Gomez was held back a bit. He kept on going to America and falling out with Universum, which will have slowed his progress. Then he obviously got KO'd by Yanqui Diaz, a setback of catastrophic, earth shattering proportions.

Sam and McCall would be really interesting. I have a feeling that Haye will go the WBC route, after the Bonin result. McCall would be very useful, given the "Atomic Bull's" chin and toughness. In fact, JC Gomez himself is a nice battle. It'd improve both men's WBC rankings, and it'd be a bout between The Man at cruiser vs possibly the 2nd best cruiser ever (JCG was awesome as a 190-pounder, I'm a big fan of his late '90s period).

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 12 Nov 2007, 15:58

haye needs to avoid anyone with a granite chin...like mccall. haye is not a stamina fighter and to win the heavyweight crown he will have to spark people, these championship belts are fought over 12 rounds, in my opinion haye is an 8 round fighter.

however.. haye is good and quick enough to spark most of them, but seek out the guys with the slightly dodgy chins, and take them on. personally i would give haye a better chance v wladimir klitschko than against oliver mccall.

valuev would get sparked by haye too, shit, that big body would get peppered, valuev would have never seen anything like it.

chris byrd might be a good opponent initially, he is a big name, a good boxer so will give haye rounds, and he is a gate keeper to the division. but he does not posess that big power to spark haye, and when haye finally catched byrdd........he will fall.

perhaps even greenburg, the israili has made himself a name in uk despite being a foreigner, he is unbeaten but definately beatable.

so..my shout is..greenburg first.. prob over 10 rounds.

then byrdd over 10 rounds.

then seriously think about an assault on the title. this should mean david is ready for an eliminator early in 2009, then perhaps a title tilt later that year.

would not like to see david have more than 3 or 4 fights max before he fights for the title. cos, in my opinion, with his chin, the bubble could burst, dramatically and quickly.

so..make HAYE while the sun shines !!

glahn · Post by **glahn** » 12 Nov 2007, 16:23

I don't think he needs to hang around at all. If I were him I'd be gunning for a top 15 fighter right off the bat. He doesn't need easy fights, he needs to establish himself as a contender and get a title fight while he's still at his peak.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 12 Nov 2007, 16:27

glahn wrote:I don't think he needs to hang around at all. If I were him I'd be gunning for a top 15 fighter right off the bat. He doesn't need easy fights, he needs to establish himself as a contender and get a title fight while he's still at his peak.

I agree, he doesn't need knockover jobs. And 3 years is too long for a title shot if he keeps winning.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 12 Nov 2007, 22:46

If Haye went the european root it would probably take him a couple of years, however he may be trying to avoid Audley Harrison syndrome and not say anything like world champion inside 5 fights.

I worry about his chin at HW particularly after the 4th round last night.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 12 Nov 2007, 23:14

1 .- Vladimir Virchis (Ukraine) EBU
2 .- Oliver McCall (US) INTL
3 .- Hasim Rahman (US) NABF/Interim
4 .- Juan Carlos Gomez (Cuba) LATINO
5 .- Nicolay Valuev (Russia)
6 .- Alexander Dimitrenko (Ukraine)
7 .- Chris Arreola (US) AMERICA
8 .- Donnell Holmes (US)
9 .- Jameel McCline (US)
10 .- David Tua (New Zealand)
11 .- Calvin Brock (US)
12 .- Michael Moorer (US)
13 .- Oleg Platov (Ukraine)
14 .- JD Chapman (US) LATINO/Interim
15 .- DaVarryl Williamson (US)

16 .- Sinan Samil Sam (Turkey)
17 .- Timor Ibragimov (Uzbekistan)
18 .- Owen Beck (US)
19 .- Fres Oquendo (US)
20 .- Carl Davis Drummond (Costa Rica) FECARBOX
21 .- Shannon Briggs (US)
22 .- Eddie Chambers (US)
23 .- Matt Skelton (GB) COMM
24 .- Kevin Johnson (US)
25 .- Mike Mollo (US)
26 .- Denis Boytsov (Russia)
27 .- Chazz Witherspoon (US)
28 .- Roman Greenberg (Israel)
29 .- Paolo Vidoz (Italy)
30 .- Tony Thompson (US)
31 .- Tomasz Bonin (Poland)
32 .- Manuel Quezada (US) CABOFE
33 .- Shane Cameron (New Zealand)
34 .- Joe Mesi (US)
35 .- Peter Okhello (Uganda)
36 .- Sherman Williams (Bahamas)
37 .- Travis Walker (US)
38 .- Alexey Soloviev (Russia) CISBB
39 .- Odlanier Solis (Cuba)
40 .- Lisandro Ezequiel Diaz (Argentina)

WBC yop 40 note bonin down at 31 so Haye should be at least highter than that. He could do with fighting some of the americans on the list I would like to see him line up a fight with DaVarryl Williams and then start hunting down the European title. Ideal being active in the fight.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 13 Nov 2007, 04:28

I follow boxing quite closely, but who the hell is that at No20?
Carl Davis Drummond never heard of him.

Personally i wouldn't want Haye to take on any of those in the top 30, he needs to build into being a full heavy, take on a durable heavy journyman to start off with. Some one like Zulu Lawrence, Taurus Sykes or Kendrick Releford.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Nov 2007, 05:03

At cruiserweight, it was vital that Haye learnt to navigate long fights. These fights enabled him to beat Mormeck. I can't believe ppl are saying he HAS to stay away from durable heavyweights. You would think that it would be absolutely CRUCIAL to fight durable guys. Otherwise, how is he going to test his heavyweight body?

Bonin style KOs are great, but so are the late KOs, the dull fights that go the distance, the fights where you have to make adjustments.

Stay away from durable guys and take an immediate title shot: YEAH RIGHT is all I can say. Why do that when you can build your skills fight by fight that give you a better chance of winning a belt?

IMO go the Euro route, and every other fight take a "novelty" marketable fight like Greenberg, O'Neil Bell, etc. Make noise and build up skills, stamina.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 13 Nov 2007, 06:04

What's all this talk of building himself into a Heavyweight? Haye is already boiling down from 215-220 to make Cruiser. He's ALREADY a Heavyweight.

BigRedClown · Post by **BigRedClown** » 13 Nov 2007, 07:05

Hi guys my first post on the forum so a big round of applause please!

Haye has been cruiserweight his career, not heavy. So he needs to get used to sparring and fighting some real heavies before he can challenge for a title. Its sensible to be a little patient at first and just get to know the devision WHILE developing as a heavyweight, and while developing his stamina and tactics for fighting heavyweights as opposed cruiserweights.

Its all about the clownery :P

Mr AllClown...

BigRedClown

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Nov 2007, 07:15

nickd wrote:What's all this talk of building himself into a Heavyweight? Haye is already boiling down from 215-220 to make Cruiser. He's ALREADY a Heavyweight.

what I mean is, having fights at his natural weight vs guys who will take him rds. all of us were saying that at cruiser he had to start facing guys who could take him rds. at heavyweight the situation is no different. Haye's fought a total of 1 heavyweight and that ended it 1 round, so surely he has to learn how to fight the bigger men, and build his abilities as a big man

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 13 Nov 2007, 07:16

BigRedClown wrote:Hi guys my first post on the forum so a big round of applause please!

Haye has been cruiserweight his career, not heavy. So he needs to get used to sparring and fighting some real heavies before he can challenge for a title. Its sensible to be a little patient at first and just get to know the devision WHILE developing as a heavyweight, and while developing his stamina and tactics for fighting heavyweights as opposed cruiserweights.

Its all about the clownery :P

Mr AllClown...

BigRedClown

[Applause]

Haye will have sparred alot of HW's in prep for his cruiser fights. Haye doesn't seem to do patience (in career-terms), so I can see him progressing along very quickly at HW

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 13 Nov 2007, 08:48

I think those who say he should mix up his styles of opponents are right. I also think he should do what he can to stay away from the british merry go round. I think out of all of the three he could learn something from fighting Sprott who could take him a lot of rounds and make him work hard.