Boxrec Hall of Fame Ballot (November 2007)

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 05 Nov 2007, 17:23

I've had Pascual Perez on my very first ballot, but I seem to be one of the only ones who regularly votes for him.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 05 Nov 2007, 17:36

Seamus wrote:I've had Pascual Perez on my very first ballot, but I seem to be one of the only ones who regularly votes for him.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 05 Nov 2007, 17:47

Barry, Jimmy
Brown, Panamá Al
Burley, Charley
Carattoli, José
Chocolate, Kid
Escobar, Sixto
Flowers, Tiger
Galaxy, Khaosai
Kilbane, Johnny
Laguna, Ismael
Lausse, Eduardo
Lewis, John Henry
Loi, Duilio
Loughran, Tommy
McLarnin, Jimmy
Merentino, Rafael
Mina, Mauro
Montañés, Pedro
Olivares, Rubén
Ortiz, Carlos
Pérez, Pascual
Rodríguez, Ángel
Ryan, Tommy
Saldívar, Vicente
Zárate, Carlos

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 06 Nov 2007, 12:26

Come on let's get some more ballots coming in, Box Buzz, Aaron Pryor needs more votes, Elmer, Carlos Ortiz needs more, JH Hamilton, Homicide Hank, anybody I've forgotten.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 06 Nov 2007, 17:00

Duilio Loi is going well!

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 07 Nov 2007, 05:09

Good to see that Loughran is doing well. He really ought to get in this round.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 07 Nov 2007, 05:30

If Carlos Ortiz needs more votes, count me in. Precious few understand how good this man was.

One vote for Ortiz in the pipes.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 07 Nov 2007, 13:20

Goodnight, Irene wrote:If Carlos Ortiz needs more votes, count me in. Precious few understand how good this man was.

One vote for Ortiz in the pipes.

Minotauro · Post by **Minotauro** » 07 Nov 2007, 15:16

Carmen Basilio
Nino Benvenuti
Panama Al Brown
Charley Burley
Kid Chocolate
George Dixon
Kid Gavilan
Fighting Harada
Harold Johnson
Jake LaMotta
Nicolino Locche
Dullio Loi
Tommy Loughran
Lloyd Marshall
Ruben Oliveras
Carlos Ortiz
Floyd Patterson (needs more votes)
Aaron Pryor
Michael Spinks
Dick Tiger
Barbados Joe Walcott (Vote for this guy he should be there already)
Jersey Joe Walcott
Holman Williams
Carlos Zarate
Fritze Zivic

Fixed it, got rid of the existing guys.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 07 Nov 2007, 21:12

Minotauro wrote:Carmen Basilio
Wilfred Benitez
Nino Benvenuti
Charley Burley
Tony Canzoneri
Kid Chocolate
Billy Conn
George Dixon
Kid Gavilan
Wilfredo Gomez
Emile Griffith
Harold Johnson
Jake LaMotta
Nicolino Locche
Dullio Loi
Tommy Loughran
Lloyd Marshall
Ruben Oliveras
Carlos Ortiz
Floyd Patterson (needs more votes)
Michael Spinks
Dick Tiger
Barbados Joe Walcott (Vote for this guy he should be there already)
Jersey Joe Walcott
Holman Williams

Wilfred Benitez, Wilfredo Gomez, and Emile Griffith are already in. You can pick three others.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 07 Nov 2007, 22:01

Tony Canzoneri and Billy Conn are already in as well, so you have 5 picks.

Packey McFaraland lost once in 110 fights, when he was 15 yrs old !

Panama Al Brown was at least 16-1 in title bouts and was never KO'd in 168 fights !

Tommy Ryan was perhaps the greatest fighter of the 19th Century ! but Kid McCoy KO'd him and he's as good a choice.

Pascual Perez was possibly the greatest Flyweight of alltime. At least top 3

Les Darcy beat all the best fighters of his weight, with the exception of Mike Gibbons who never faced.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 12 Nov 2007, 10:36

Lets keep the votes coming. So far it has been interesting.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 12 Nov 2007, 20:47

Thanks for the heads up AA.

Basillo, Carmen
Benvenuti, Nino
Brown, Panama Al
Cerdan, Marcel
Cervantes, Antonio
Dixon, George
Donovan, Mike (Professor)
Fenech, Jeff
Fullmer, Gene
Jack, Beau
LaMotta, Jake
McCallum, Mike
McClarnin, Jimmy
McCoy, Kid
Nelson, Battling
O'Brien, Jack (Philadelphia)
Oliveras, Ruben
Ortiz, Carlos
Perez, Pascual
Rosenbloom, Maxie
Tiger, Dick
Villa, Pancho
Walcott, Joe (Barbados)
Welsh, Freddie
Wolgast, Ad

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 12 Nov 2007, 21:14

Carmen Basillio
Panama Al Brown
Charley Burley
Marcel Cerdan
Kid Chocolate
George Dixon
Tiger Flowers
Gene Fullmer
Kid Gavilan
Dulio Loi
Harold Johnson
Johnny Kilbane
Niccolino Loche
Jake LaMotta
Pascual Perez
Packy McFarland
Rueben Olivares
Carlos Ortiz
Antonio Cervantes
Vincente Saldivar
Tommy Loughran
John L. Sullivan
Dick Tiger
Barbadoes Joe Walcott
NonPareliel Jack Dempsey

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 13 Nov 2007, 01:03

Looking good on getting a good number of inductees in.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » 13 Nov 2007, 01:35

Any chance of breaking the lists into two divisions Pre- 1960 and post - 1960?
I think this will allow some of us to consider the older ones more closely and not have them compete for a spot with fighters that are fresh in our memory. I sure some of the old timers really stand up to scrutiny but may not get mentioned cos the more recent fighters are still in our memory.

Just a thought

Boxscribe · Post by **Boxscribe** » 13 Nov 2007, 05:00

Jack Britton
(Panama) Al Brown
Ken Buchanan
Charley Burley
Eddie Booker
Cocoa Kid
Kid Chocolate
Les Darcy
George Dixon
Marcel Cerdan
Harold Johnson
Jake LaMotta
Ted 'Kid' Lewis
Tommy Loughran
Dullio Loi
Lloyd Marshall
Packy McFarland
Freddie Miller
Mauro Mina
Kid Norfolk
Ruben Olivares
Dick Tiger
Joe Walcott (Barbados)
Holman Williams
Carlos Zarate

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 13 Nov 2007, 13:02

How come the orginal Dempsey is so overlooked? It just aint right I could not overlook him on my list.

Although I really wanted to put Joe Jeanette in to but I see no one else had him on their list, however my inclusion of his name would have been a solo attempt just like Dempsey.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 13 Nov 2007, 13:15

BoxBuzz wrote:How come the orginal Dempsey is so overlooked? It just aint right I could not overlook him on my list.

As well as just about any of the pre-1900 fighters such as John L, Ryan, etc. Pretty sad...

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 13 Nov 2007, 13:46

I had Tommy Ryan and Kid McCoy on my very first ballot, but others thought Rocky Marciano and Sonny Liston were more deserving.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 13 Nov 2007, 16:29

It's true that that so far not many fighters from that era have been elected. However, some have gotten some support and will probably eventually make it.
One thing to remember is that you don't know who just missed making it on other people's ballots and will be on their ballots next time.
There are so many close calls. For example, Seamus and I only have 8 of of the same guys out of 25 this time. However, I don't think any of the the guys that he voted for are ridiculaus.

Overall, there has been relatively equal representation from the different eras. Several from the early 1900's have made it. Almost half of the fighters elected had their last fight before WWII.
John L.- you could help some of the old timers out by submitting a ballot yourself.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 13 Nov 2007, 17:50

Ambling Alp wrote:It's true that that so far not many fighters from that era have been elected. However, some have gotten some support and will probably eventually make it.
One thing to remember is that you don't know who just missed making it on other people's ballots and will be on their ballots next time.
There are so many close calls. For example, Seamus and I only have 8 of of the same guys out of 25 this time. However, I don't think any of the the guys that he voted for are ridiculaus.

Overall, there has been relatively equal representation from the different eras. Several from the early 1900's have made it. Almost half of the fighters elected had their last fight before WWII.
John L.- you could help some of the old timers out by submitting a ballot yourself.

I participated in the first few, however the lack of support for fighters from the "Pioneer" era of boxing is a good indication of how silly this excercise is. I usually check everytime another thread is started just to see if any sanity has been introduced to the balloting.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 13 Nov 2007, 18:05

Sorry that you feel that way. However, it's worth noting that three guys who had an important part of their careers before the 1900's have been elected-Fitzsimmons, Jeffries and McGovern.
Dixon and Sullivan are getting some support and could make it in the next couple of ballots.
Several guys have been elected from the early 1900's- Johnson,Ketchel,Langford,and Attell.

I agree that some of the early greats have been overlooked, but it's not hopeless.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 14 Nov 2007, 02:52

I think the biggest overlooks are McClarnin, BJ Walcott, & Dixon.

McClarnin especially, the list of guys he beat (though I dont know the conditions of the fights) is amazing. Guys like: Lou Ambers, Pancho Villa, Louis Kaplan, Benny Leonard, Young Corbett III, Barney Ross, & Tony Canzoneri. Plus several guys with 100+ wins (admittedly not as hard to do back then, but merits mentioning).

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 14 Nov 2007, 04:07

People like Buzz, panda and John L are doing the right thing putting the names forward (even if not ina ballot list). We've seen before how a little campaigning can help the cause of your fighters.