I know this would be a dream fight. Full of action from start to finish...Maybe some knockdowns. This fight should definately end by KO.
Featherweights: Danny Lopez vs Wilfredo Gomez
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elmersalsa
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 15678
- Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50
Featherweights: Danny Lopez vs Wilfredo Gomez
What if instead of challenging Salvador Sanchez for the title, Gomez would have challenged champ Danny Lopez before Sanchez came into the scene? Let's say about the year 1978 or 1979? Who wins?
I know this would be a dream fight. Full of action from start to finish...Maybe some knockdowns. This fight should definately end by KO.
I know this would be a dream fight. Full of action from start to finish...Maybe some knockdowns. This fight should definately end by KO.
Danny wins this by KO, no doubt about it in my mind.
Lets not forget that Gomez tried to punch Lopez stablemate Alberto Davila while he was flat on his back. That last fact wasn`t lost on Danny who was then aching to get Gomez into a ring anytime, anyplace.
Plus, if the lighter hitting Sanchez could do to Gomez what he did, then I think that the much harder hitting and naturally bigger Danny decapitates him within 10 rounds.
I would not be surprised to see "Little Red" get dropped early in the fight, but usually whenever Danny got dropped the end wasn`t too far off for his opponents.
When they went in for the kill is when they usually got nailed and taken out by Danny, who one sportswriter once said he usually planned his KO`s from the seat of his pants.
Either way, to get a good idea of what it was like to move up to fight "Little Red" from a lighter weight division take a look at Lopez/Olivares... I don`t see Gomez being able to do any better.
Lopez KO8 Gomez
Lets not forget that Gomez tried to punch Lopez stablemate Alberto Davila while he was flat on his back. That last fact wasn`t lost on Danny who was then aching to get Gomez into a ring anytime, anyplace.
Plus, if the lighter hitting Sanchez could do to Gomez what he did, then I think that the much harder hitting and naturally bigger Danny decapitates him within 10 rounds.
I would not be surprised to see "Little Red" get dropped early in the fight, but usually whenever Danny got dropped the end wasn`t too far off for his opponents.
When they went in for the kill is when they usually got nailed and taken out by Danny, who one sportswriter once said he usually planned his KO`s from the seat of his pants.
Either way, to get a good idea of what it was like to move up to fight "Little Red" from a lighter weight division take a look at Lopez/Olivares... I don`t see Gomez being able to do any better.
Lopez KO8 Gomez
re
>>>What if instead of challenging Salvador Sanchez for the title, Gomez would have challenged champ Danny Lopez before Sanchez came into the scene?<<<
That was the bout that was originally suppose to take place, but Sanchez came in and beat Lopez, so Gomez fought Sanchez instead. Gomnez was also suppose to have fought Alphose Zamora, but Zamora didn't want any.
As to Gomez-Lopez...I think Gomez would most likely stop Lopez as Gomez was superior in ever department except punching power, which if Lopez landed first then he would likely win as he could put anyone to sleep with one shot from either hand. Lopez just took to much punishment and always got knocked down early, which he always got back up to win, but it was never against as great a fighter as Gomez was and Lopez was knocked down by a lot of lesser fighters than Gomez, but unlike those that could not put Lopez away...Gomez could as he was a great finisher! Lopez had the power, but Gomez was much, much better technician, he was much faster, had a better chin, had a great defense. I love both fighters, but almost always the expert boxer almost always wins out over the puncher and being that Gomez hit nearly as hard as Lopez then he would likely put Danny away. Just too many superior traits...unless of course Lopez landed one of his straight rights, or left hooks, then it would likely be lights out!
Gomez KO 5
>>>Either way, to get a good idea of what it was like to move up to fight "Little Red" from a lighter weight division take a look at Lopez/Olivares...<<<
Olivares was way past it when he fought Lopez. A prime Olivares would have KO'd Lopez! And speaking of match-ups...you say look what Lopez did to Olivares, but look what Olivares did to Chacon and what Chacon did to Lopez!
Lopez is one of my all-time favorites, but he got hit waaaaay too much and if he was getting hit by the likes of Gomez then he would not be getting up as he did so many times...well he might, once, or twice, but eventually Gomez would put him down good. The fighters whom Lopez got off the canvas to KO were wild and rushed in to try and finish Lopez and Lopez turned out their lights...Gomez was a lot smarter than that!
That was the bout that was originally suppose to take place, but Sanchez came in and beat Lopez, so Gomez fought Sanchez instead. Gomnez was also suppose to have fought Alphose Zamora, but Zamora didn't want any.
As to Gomez-Lopez...I think Gomez would most likely stop Lopez as Gomez was superior in ever department except punching power, which if Lopez landed first then he would likely win as he could put anyone to sleep with one shot from either hand. Lopez just took to much punishment and always got knocked down early, which he always got back up to win, but it was never against as great a fighter as Gomez was and Lopez was knocked down by a lot of lesser fighters than Gomez, but unlike those that could not put Lopez away...Gomez could as he was a great finisher! Lopez had the power, but Gomez was much, much better technician, he was much faster, had a better chin, had a great defense. I love both fighters, but almost always the expert boxer almost always wins out over the puncher and being that Gomez hit nearly as hard as Lopez then he would likely put Danny away. Just too many superior traits...unless of course Lopez landed one of his straight rights, or left hooks, then it would likely be lights out!
Gomez KO 5
>>>Either way, to get a good idea of what it was like to move up to fight "Little Red" from a lighter weight division take a look at Lopez/Olivares...<<<
Olivares was way past it when he fought Lopez. A prime Olivares would have KO'd Lopez! And speaking of match-ups...you say look what Lopez did to Olivares, but look what Olivares did to Chacon and what Chacon did to Lopez!
Lopez is one of my all-time favorites, but he got hit waaaaay too much and if he was getting hit by the likes of Gomez then he would not be getting up as he did so many times...well he might, once, or twice, but eventually Gomez would put him down good. The fighters whom Lopez got off the canvas to KO were wild and rushed in to try and finish Lopez and Lopez turned out their lights...Gomez was a lot smarter than that!
Re: re
A prime Olivares fought as a bantamweight Barry... by the time he moved up to featherweight he was past his best. And a peak Ruben ain`t gonna never be beating Danny as they were two weight classes apart on each man`s best day, and Danny`s size, strenght and power would dictate the outcome of their bout at any point in their careers.barry wrote:Olivares was way past it when he fought Lopez. A prime Olivares would have KO'd Lopez! And speaking of match-ups...you say look what Lopez did to Olivares, but look what Olivares did to Chacon and what Chacon did to Lopez!
Same goes for how a fight between Danny and the "Foul One" would unfold in my opinion... Gomez being the more skilled fighter of the two, but naturally smaller and less durable than "Little Red" who`s size and power will be the deciding factor.
Every fight I saw Gomez fight in as a featherweight he got hurt and stunned, fighters such as LaPorte and Lockridge had him badly hurt several times, and we all know what a beating Azumah gave to Gomez in their bout. Danny hit harder than ALL of these guys, and he threw a LOT of punches every round, and he could keep up that pace all night long as he was in spartan shape for every fight.
The same cannot be said for Wilfredo who faded late in every featherweight bout of his that I saw, and I have seen all of them. Danny`s high punch output pretty much guarantees that he will eventually land that atomic right hand of his on Wilfredo, and when Danny had you reeling he got you out of there quickly.
The best version we saw of Wilfredo at featherweight never beats the best of Lopez, too small and does not have the chin to hold up against Danny`s power. Wilfredo`s defence wasn`t as great by the time he moved up to featherweight either, as his reflexes and footwork had diminished enough to make him a lot more hittable.
And against "Little Red" that will be a very big problem, as the last thing you want is a fired up Lopez looking to knock your head into the crowd. Had these two fought it is important not to forget how angry Lopez was at Wilfredo`s punk move of trying to punch Lopez stablemate and friend Albert Davila while he was flat on his back.
Lopez would have gone into their fight a man on a mission, and he would have been hell bent on giving Gomez a thorough beating for what he did. Being that he is also bigger, stronger and harder hitting, I just don`t see how the skill difference will be enough for Wilfredo to offset Danny`s significant physical advantages.
I stand by what said. Lopez wins by KO, and I do mean a clean ten count KO, not TKO.
Last edited by Lausse on 10 Nov 2007, 19:28, edited 2 times in total.
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Re: re
Too true, mate.Lausse wrote:barry wrote:A prime Olivares fought as a bantamweight Barry... by the time he moved up to featherweight he was past his best. And a peak Ruben ain`t gonna never be beating Danny as they were two weight classes apart on each man`s best day, and Danny`s size, strenght and power would dictate the outcome of their bout at any point in their careers.Olivares was way past it when he fought Lopez. A prime Olivares would have KO'd Lopez! And speaking of match-ups...you say look what Lopez did to Olivares, but look what Olivares did to Chacon and what Chacon did to Lopez!
Same goes for how a fight between Danny and the "Foul One" would unfold in my opinion... Gomez being the more skilled fighter of the two, but naturally smaller and less durable than "Little Red" who`s size and power will be the deciding factor.
Every fight I saw Gomez fight in as a featherweight he got hurt and stunned, fighters such as LaPorte and Lockridge had him badly hurt several times, and we all know what a beating Azumah gave to Gomez in their bout. Danny hit harder than ALL of these guys, and he threw a LOT of punches every round, and he could keep up that pace all night long as he was in spartan shape for every fight.
The same cannot be said for Wilfredo who faded late in every featherweight bout of his that I saw, and I have seen all of them. Danny`s high punch output pretty much guarantees that he will eventually land that atomic right hand of his on Wilfredo, and when Danny had you reeling he got you out of there quickly.
The best version we saw of Wilfredo at featherweight never beats the best of Lopez, too small and does not have the chin to hold up against Danny`s power. Wilfredo`s defence wasn`t as great by the time he moved up to featherweight either, as his reflexes and footwork had diminished enough to make him a lot more hittable.
And against "Little Red" that will be a very big problem, as the last thing you want is a fired up Lopez looking to knock your head into the crowd. Had these two fought it is important not to forget how angry Lopez was at Wilfredo`s punk move of trying to punch Lopez stablemate and friend Albert Davila while he was flat on his back.
Lopez would have gone into their fight a man on a mission, and he would have been hell bent on giving Gomez a thorough beating for what he did. Being that he is also bigger, stronger and harder hitting, I just don`t see how the skill difference will be enough for Wilfredo to offset Danny`s significant physical advantages.
I stand by what said. Lopez wins by KO, and I do mean a clean ten count KO, not TKO.
Gomez may have been unbeatable at 122 but at 126 he certainly wasn't.
Lopez catches him and it's goodnight.
re
>>>A prime Olivares fought as a bantamweight Barry... by the time he moved up to featherweight he was past his best. And a peak Ruben ain`t gonna never be beating Danny as they were two weight classes apart on each man`s best day, and Danny`s size, strenght and power would dictate the outcome of their bout at any point in their careers.<<<
Really???? So how do you explain Olivares destroying Bobby Chacon? You know the same Bobby Chacon who destroyed Danny Lopez??? Olivares beat Chacon both before and after he beat Lopez. Like Gomez, Olivares had too many tools overall and he would outbox Lopez until he landed clean. Olivares hit as hard as Lopez and he was the same height as Gomez and the small amount of pounds would not really matter. Lopez was overall stronger than Olivares, but again this is a case of one fighter simply being superior in nearly every aspect except one, or two.
>>>Same goes for how a fight between Danny and the "Foul One" would unfold in my opinion... Gomez being the more skilled fighter of the two, but naturally smaller and less durable than "Little Red" who`s size and power will be the deciding factor.<<<
Exactly how do you figure that Lopez was more durable than Gomez?
>>>Every fight I saw Gomez fight in as a featherweight he got hurt and stunned, fighters such as LaPorte and Lockridge had him badly hurt several times, and we all know what a beating Azumah gave to Gomez in their bout. Danny hit harder than ALL of these guys, and he threw a LOT of punches every round, and he could keep up that pace all night long as he was in spartan shape for every fight.<<<
I have seen all fights that are available for both fighters as well, actually I have all fights that are available for each man.
All three of the fighters you mentioned, well they fought a well past his prime Gomez, yet Gomez was still able to withstand all that Lockeridge and LaPorte had to offer and he took a hell of a beating against Nelson. I don't think a well past his prime Lopez had the durability to last 11 rounds with Nelson as Gomez did!
>>>The same cannot be said for Wilfredo who faded late in every featherweight bout of his that I saw, and I have seen all of them. Danny`s high punch output pretty much guarantees that he will eventually land that atomic right hand of his on Wilfredo, and when Danny had you reeling he got you out of there quickly.<<<
Well the bout would never go late, so fading would not be an issue at all...even though there is little truth to Gomez fading late...except when he was way past his prime! And being as accurate as Gomez was and a fighter who was as easy to hit as Lopez, not to mention the awesome defense that Gomez had, well, it's a sad night for Lopez. And as far as size...sorry, but four pounds really means very little, especially when Lopez started out at 122!!!
>>>The best version we saw of Wilfredo at featherweight never beats the best of Lopez, too small and does not have the chin to hold up against Danny`s power. Wilfredo`s defence wasn`t as great by the time he moved up to featherweight either, as his reflexes and footwork had diminished enough to make him a lot more hittable.<<<
Doesn't have the chin? Exactly when was Gomez ever KO'd quick, or with one shot? It never happened!!! Gomez took vicious beating from Sanchez and Nelson yet it still took those two many rounds to get the job done and though Nelson did not have the one punch power that Lopez had he was physically stronger than Lopez and an old, way past his prime Gomez lasted 11 rounds with the much stronger Nelson...not to mention that Nelson was a much better technician than Danny was as well as being a better all-around fighter. I just don’t see Lopez doing what Nelson did and again the only way that Lopez wins is by KO..
>>>And against "Little Red" that will be a very big problem, as the last thing you want is a fired up Lopez looking to knock your head into the crowd. Had these two fought it is important not to forget how angry Lopez was at Wilfredo`s punk move of trying to punch Lopez stablemate and friend Albert Davila while he was flat on his back.<<<
Lopez could get back up and beat the likes of fighters like Juan Malvarez, Kenji Endo and Masano Toyoshima (Toyoshima-Lopez may have been the most exciting fight of the 1970s) but all three of those fighters combined do not equal one Gomez!
Being able to get back up and win is certainly an asset and Lopez thrilled fans by doing it, but doing it against B and C level opposition most certainly does not weigh in that the same would be done with an A+, all-time great fighter like Gomez. Lopez was fairly easy to outbox and few could box as brilliantly as Gomez. Lopez' had only one trait which was superior to Gomez and that was his power, but even that was not by much as Gomez damn near hit just as hard as Lopez. Buts it's all the other traits that Gomez is far ahead on which give him a huge edge in the bout. A great boxer/puncher almost always beats a great puncher!
>>>Lopez would have gone into their fight a man on a mission,<<<
I agree...and that would be his downfall. Going in a trying to bomb out the slick Gomez early would be disastrous as Gomez, along with all of his other assets, was one of the best counter-punchers ever at his weight and he would counter Lopez silly until he really hurt Lopez, which most likely would not be many rounds into the bout.
>>>and he would have been hell bent on giving Gomez a thorough beating for what he did. Being that he is also bigger, stronger and harder hitting, I just don`t see how the skill difference will be enough for Wilfredo to offset Danny`s significant physical advantages.<<<
Lopez was 5'7, Gomez was 5'5 and as I said earlier...four pounds is not much weight. Also, lets not forget that Lopez fought his first three, or four years at jr. featherweight which encompassed around 20 of his career fights.
>>>I stand by what said. Lopez wins by KO, and I do mean a clean ten count KO, not TKO.<<<
When a fighter hits as hard as Lopez did then it is always a possibility that he wins by knockout, but just not likely with a fighter who is so overwhelkmingly superior in every single aspect of the game, except punching power, which even that Gomez was not far behind Lopez. Gomez simply had too many weapons and Lopez had too poor a defense to be able to withstand an onslaught that a young and prime Gomez would put on him!!!
There is only one scenario where Lopez can win…if he KO’d Gomez…Gomez can win by KO, he can box Lopez’ ears off for a later round stoppage, or he can just simply outbox Lopez for 15 rounds. Lopez’ only chance is to get the knockout, but how many times through the years have we seen a great boxer beat a great puncher…it’s very lopsided with the boxer winning about 80% to 90% of a ten fight series. There is always the possibility of a clean KO, but considering that Gomez was never put to sleep with one punch then it is highly unlikely that it would happen in this bout considering Gomez’ awesome defense!
They have one common opponent, Salvador Sanchez, and Sanchez handled Lopez just as easy as he did Gomez.
As far as favorites I prefer Lopez to Gomez…actually Lopez is probably one of my top five favorites, but he did not have the tools to beat a fighter as gifted as Gomez unless he caught Gomez and KO’d him clean, which also would be highly unlikely considering that Gomez was never stopped in that manner.
Gomez would win in a bout where he simply dodged and ducked nearly everything that Lopez threw at him while boxing and counter-punching the hell out of Lopez busting him up and after a solid beating he scores a clean KO in 5!!!
Really???? So how do you explain Olivares destroying Bobby Chacon? You know the same Bobby Chacon who destroyed Danny Lopez??? Olivares beat Chacon both before and after he beat Lopez. Like Gomez, Olivares had too many tools overall and he would outbox Lopez until he landed clean. Olivares hit as hard as Lopez and he was the same height as Gomez and the small amount of pounds would not really matter. Lopez was overall stronger than Olivares, but again this is a case of one fighter simply being superior in nearly every aspect except one, or two.
>>>Same goes for how a fight between Danny and the "Foul One" would unfold in my opinion... Gomez being the more skilled fighter of the two, but naturally smaller and less durable than "Little Red" who`s size and power will be the deciding factor.<<<
Exactly how do you figure that Lopez was more durable than Gomez?
>>>Every fight I saw Gomez fight in as a featherweight he got hurt and stunned, fighters such as LaPorte and Lockridge had him badly hurt several times, and we all know what a beating Azumah gave to Gomez in their bout. Danny hit harder than ALL of these guys, and he threw a LOT of punches every round, and he could keep up that pace all night long as he was in spartan shape for every fight.<<<
I have seen all fights that are available for both fighters as well, actually I have all fights that are available for each man.
All three of the fighters you mentioned, well they fought a well past his prime Gomez, yet Gomez was still able to withstand all that Lockeridge and LaPorte had to offer and he took a hell of a beating against Nelson. I don't think a well past his prime Lopez had the durability to last 11 rounds with Nelson as Gomez did!
>>>The same cannot be said for Wilfredo who faded late in every featherweight bout of his that I saw, and I have seen all of them. Danny`s high punch output pretty much guarantees that he will eventually land that atomic right hand of his on Wilfredo, and when Danny had you reeling he got you out of there quickly.<<<
Well the bout would never go late, so fading would not be an issue at all...even though there is little truth to Gomez fading late...except when he was way past his prime! And being as accurate as Gomez was and a fighter who was as easy to hit as Lopez, not to mention the awesome defense that Gomez had, well, it's a sad night for Lopez. And as far as size...sorry, but four pounds really means very little, especially when Lopez started out at 122!!!
>>>The best version we saw of Wilfredo at featherweight never beats the best of Lopez, too small and does not have the chin to hold up against Danny`s power. Wilfredo`s defence wasn`t as great by the time he moved up to featherweight either, as his reflexes and footwork had diminished enough to make him a lot more hittable.<<<
Doesn't have the chin? Exactly when was Gomez ever KO'd quick, or with one shot? It never happened!!! Gomez took vicious beating from Sanchez and Nelson yet it still took those two many rounds to get the job done and though Nelson did not have the one punch power that Lopez had he was physically stronger than Lopez and an old, way past his prime Gomez lasted 11 rounds with the much stronger Nelson...not to mention that Nelson was a much better technician than Danny was as well as being a better all-around fighter. I just don’t see Lopez doing what Nelson did and again the only way that Lopez wins is by KO..
>>>And against "Little Red" that will be a very big problem, as the last thing you want is a fired up Lopez looking to knock your head into the crowd. Had these two fought it is important not to forget how angry Lopez was at Wilfredo`s punk move of trying to punch Lopez stablemate and friend Albert Davila while he was flat on his back.<<<
Lopez could get back up and beat the likes of fighters like Juan Malvarez, Kenji Endo and Masano Toyoshima (Toyoshima-Lopez may have been the most exciting fight of the 1970s) but all three of those fighters combined do not equal one Gomez!
Being able to get back up and win is certainly an asset and Lopez thrilled fans by doing it, but doing it against B and C level opposition most certainly does not weigh in that the same would be done with an A+, all-time great fighter like Gomez. Lopez was fairly easy to outbox and few could box as brilliantly as Gomez. Lopez' had only one trait which was superior to Gomez and that was his power, but even that was not by much as Gomez damn near hit just as hard as Lopez. Buts it's all the other traits that Gomez is far ahead on which give him a huge edge in the bout. A great boxer/puncher almost always beats a great puncher!
>>>Lopez would have gone into their fight a man on a mission,<<<
I agree...and that would be his downfall. Going in a trying to bomb out the slick Gomez early would be disastrous as Gomez, along with all of his other assets, was one of the best counter-punchers ever at his weight and he would counter Lopez silly until he really hurt Lopez, which most likely would not be many rounds into the bout.
>>>and he would have been hell bent on giving Gomez a thorough beating for what he did. Being that he is also bigger, stronger and harder hitting, I just don`t see how the skill difference will be enough for Wilfredo to offset Danny`s significant physical advantages.<<<
Lopez was 5'7, Gomez was 5'5 and as I said earlier...four pounds is not much weight. Also, lets not forget that Lopez fought his first three, or four years at jr. featherweight which encompassed around 20 of his career fights.
>>>I stand by what said. Lopez wins by KO, and I do mean a clean ten count KO, not TKO.<<<
When a fighter hits as hard as Lopez did then it is always a possibility that he wins by knockout, but just not likely with a fighter who is so overwhelkmingly superior in every single aspect of the game, except punching power, which even that Gomez was not far behind Lopez. Gomez simply had too many weapons and Lopez had too poor a defense to be able to withstand an onslaught that a young and prime Gomez would put on him!!!
There is only one scenario where Lopez can win…if he KO’d Gomez…Gomez can win by KO, he can box Lopez’ ears off for a later round stoppage, or he can just simply outbox Lopez for 15 rounds. Lopez’ only chance is to get the knockout, but how many times through the years have we seen a great boxer beat a great puncher…it’s very lopsided with the boxer winning about 80% to 90% of a ten fight series. There is always the possibility of a clean KO, but considering that Gomez was never put to sleep with one punch then it is highly unlikely that it would happen in this bout considering Gomez’ awesome defense!
They have one common opponent, Salvador Sanchez, and Sanchez handled Lopez just as easy as he did Gomez.
As far as favorites I prefer Lopez to Gomez…actually Lopez is probably one of my top five favorites, but he did not have the tools to beat a fighter as gifted as Gomez unless he caught Gomez and KO’d him clean, which also would be highly unlikely considering that Gomez was never stopped in that manner.
Gomez would win in a bout where he simply dodged and ducked nearly everything that Lopez threw at him while boxing and counter-punching the hell out of Lopez busting him up and after a solid beating he scores a clean KO in 5!!!
Re: re
The Gomez that fought Sanchez is the best of Gomez we ever saw at 126, and he got trounced for the better part of 8 rounds, although he did mount a comeback briefly in the fight. Gomez got hit a lot in that fight, and did not look as fleet-footed or as powerful a puncher at featherweight as he did at jr.feather.barry wrote:Chacon came into the first Ruben fight overconfident and undertrained, and paid for it as Ruben was in top form and had something to prove after his two defeats to Rafael Herrera the year before. The rematch saw Bobby having to drop too much weight too fast, and come fight time he had nothing to offer Olivares who bombed him out of there with embarrassing ease.Really???? So how do you explain Olivares destroying Bobby Chacon? You know the same Bobby Chacon who destroyed Danny Lopez??? Olivares beat Chacon both before and after he beat Lopez. Like Gomez, Olivares had too many tools overall and he would outbox Lopez until he landed clean. Olivares hit as hard as Lopez and he was the same height as Gomez and the small amount of pounds would not really matter. Lopez was overall stronger than Olivares, but again this is a case of one fighter simply being superior in nearly every aspect except one, or two.
Bobby moved up to jr.lightweight after the fight as making 126 was too draining as evidenced by the loss to Ruben in 2 rounds. And BTW Ruben got KOed in 5 by Art Hafey in his very next fight after Chacon, and had to stay on his bike all night in the return to get the decision, although he still got dropped and hurt in the 10th and battered in the remaining rounds.
Ruben`s prime at feather wasn`t very long if he ever had one to begin with, which I believe he did not. By the time he moved up he was already past his prime in my opinion, yet was good still a good enough fighter to hold his own and have competitive fights against fellow greats like Pedroza and Arguello before getting taken out late.
It`s simple really... Danny got hit a LOT in all of his fights, and often he even got dropped early. But, he always got up and kept marching forward looking to land that booming right while taking everything his opponent could throw at him.Exactly how do you figure that Lopez was more durable than Gomez?
Gomez never fought that way, and had he tried to I doubt he would have been able to take the kind of punishment Danny could withstand... especially against natural feathers who could punch.
He proved time and again that he could take a great punch, and even when he got hurt his great conditioning pulled him through. Surely even you must acknowledge that Lopez could take one hell of a punch, look at all the leather that Chacon landed on him before finally getting him out of there in the 9th.
And Bobby was definately a harder puncher than Gomez at 126, and yet you think that Gomez is gonna bomb Danny out in 5 one-sided rounds? I sure as heck don`t think that`s gonna happen, and I am surprised you actually believe it, but hey to each their own.
Gomez did withstand all that Rocky and Juan threw his way to make it to the final bell, that is true. But, he got hurt several times in both fights against those two, that is a fact. And Lopez was also undoubtebly IMO a harder puncher than either LaPorte,Lockridge, Sanchez and Azumah for that matter.All three of the fighters you mentioned, well they fought a well past his prime Gomez, yet Gomez was still able to withstand all that Lockeridge and LaPorte had to offer and he took a hell of a beating against Nelson. I don't think a well past his prime Lopez had the durability to last 11 rounds with Nelson as Gomez did!
And if that quartet were able to land on Wilfredo as much as they did and hurt him as often as they did, then I just don`t see how he gets stays clear of Danny who is one of the division`s hardest ever puncher`s and who averaged about eighty to a hundred punches a round.
As for wether a well past his prime Lopez lasts 11 with a peak Nelson, I can`t honestly say that your wrong in your opinion. But the main reason for that would be because Danny only knew one way to fight and that was to come forward which would only make Azumah`s job easier.
Wilfredo on the other hand boxed and moved and used his legs a lot more, and thus he was able to last as long as he did against Azumah in thir fight. However had he came right at Nelson the way Lopez would have done, there is no way Gomez makes it to the 11th, not a chance and of that I am absolutely certain.
Well, a little truth is still the truth is it not? Gomez faded late when past his prime, but when he fought at 126 he was like I said past his prime. So the fact that he did fade late is still revelant should the fight go into the later rounds, do you disagree?Well the bout would never go late, so fading would not be an issue at all...even though there is little truth to Gomez fading late...except when he was way past his prime! And being as accurate as Gomez was and a fighter who was as easy to hit as Lopez, not to mention the awesome defense that Gomez had, well, it's a sad night for Lopez. And as far as size...sorry, but four pounds really means very little, especially when Lopez started out at 122!!!
And about this awesome defence of Wilfredo`s your reffering to, I sure as heck didn`t see it in any of his featherweight bouts. At 122 yes, but at featherweight it sure looked to me at least that he was getting hit a lot more than he was at jr.feather where he was a lot more elusive at his peak.
And so what if Lopez weighed in between 120 /123 pounds early in his career?
You do surely realize he was only 19 when he turned pro, and that he was still developing physically until the age of 22 which is around the time he started regularly coming at the featherweight limit.
And I disagree that four pounds means very little, as clearly Gomez did not have nearly as much success at featherweight as he did four pounds below at 122.
When did I ever say that Wilfred was gonna get clocked early or with one shot? What I DID say was that I think he will get knocked out, and will be counted out.Doesn't have the chin? Exactly when was Gomez ever KO'd quick, or with one shot? It never happened!!! Gomez took vicious beating from Sanchez and Nelson yet it still took those two many rounds to get the job done and though Nelson did not have the one punch power that Lopez had he was physically stronger than Lopez and an old, way past his prime Gomez lasted 11 rounds with the much stronger Nelson...not to mention that Nelson was a much better technician than Danny was as well as being a better all-around fighter. I just don’t see Lopez doing what Nelson did and again the only way that Lopez wins is by KO..
Wether it happens early or late however is another matter, although I happen to think it would happen after the halfway point of the fight as Wilfredo`s legs will allow to stay away for a few rounds until Lopez inevitably closes the gap.
You also make mention of the number of rounds that it took for Sanchez and Nelson to dispose of Wilfredo, yet seemingly fail to take into account that Lopez hit harder than either of those two, and by a significant margin as well.
Gomez wasn`t as elusive at feather anymore as he was one weight class below, and he got hit alot more and against Lopez this would prove fatal as he could only take so many bombs from a puncher like Danny before succumbing.
They do not equal one Gomez, but the result in each fight was the same and followed the same pattern... Lopez gets hurt, dropped even, then gets back up and proceeds to flatten his opponent for a ten count. Pretty much how I see this fight unfolding actually, with Gomez hurting Lopez, going in for the finish and getting nailed on the way in.Lopez could get back up and beat the likes of fighters like Juan Malvarez, Kenji Endo and Masano Toyoshima (Toyoshima-Lopez may have been the most exciting fight of the 1970s) but all three of those fighters combined do not equal one Gomez!
Lopez was outboxed by many of his opponents during his career, that is indeed true. But that sure did not stop him for flattening 39 out of 42 of his opponents now did it! And I dare say that several of those fellas were outboxing Danny quite handily before getting caught... yet they all got flattened in the end and the ones that did not had to withstand some serious firepower before getting Danny out of there late in the fights.Being able to get back up and win is certainly an asset and Lopez thrilled fans by doing it, but doing it against B and C level opposition most certainly does not weigh in that the same would be done with an A+, all-time great fighter like Gomez. Lopez was fairly easy to outbox and few could box as brilliantly as Gomez. Lopez' had only one trait which was superior to Gomez and that was his power, but even that was not by much as Gomez damn near hit just as hard as Lopez. Buts it's all the other traits that Gomez is far ahead on which give him a huge edge in the bout. A great boxer/puncher almost always beats a great puncher!
And I strongly disagree with your take that Gomez hit nearly as hard as Lopez did, how exactly did you come to that conclusion? Which bouts of Wilfredo`s did you watch at featherweight that showed that he could punch that hard? I sure as hell didn`t see any evidence of it, who did Gomez ever stop of note above 122? Hell, who did he stop period above 122?
I agree...and that would be his downfall. Going in a trying to bomb out the slick Gomez early would be disastrous as Gomez, along with all of his other assets, was one of the best counter-punchers ever at his weight and he would counter Lopez silly until he really hurt Lopez, which most likely would not be many rounds into the bout.
I won`t try to argue that Gomez couldn`t hurt Danny as he certainly could and would, but for you to make it sound as if Lopez will not land anything of consequence throughout the entire bout and that Wilfredo will just do away with him whenever he pleases seems incredibly far-fetched to me.
Danny was a lot more durable than you are giving him credit for, and while not as skilled as Gomez he sure as hell would get his own pound of flesh in and hurt Gomez at some point. The thing about Danny was that he was such an overbearing attacker that it was inevitable that he would land something of consequence on you, and while Gomez was tough I just don`t see how he survives after Lopez has him hurt and reeling.
If you feel Lopez gets completely outboxed, outpunched and finally executed whenever Wilfred feels like ending matters, then hey that is your right. I happen to think that "Little Red" will survive a few shaky moments early in the fight, maybe suffering a knockdown in the process as well.
But, he will eventually start to land more and more as his high workrate and aggression sees him closing the gap between himself and a tiring Gomez and eventually he will finally land that homerun shot to end matters conclusively.
We will clearly not see eye to eye on this subject, and I certainly do not feel like repeating myself over and over again trying to convince you that the fight will unfold the way I think it will, and I am pretty sure you feel the same way too.
Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that, as we both made our points and said what we had to say, now lets leave others the opportunity to chime in with their opiniions.
re
Hey...your view is your view and you have that right. But honestly...how many times throughout history has a great puncher beaten a superb boxer/puncher?
It's happened, no doubt, but it's very, very rare.
Talking primes...none of the fights that Gomez took punishment in was he in his prime...when he was in his prime his defense was so good that no one could hardly touch him and back that up with the overwhelming fire-power and it simply spells doom for a fighter that took as many shots as Lopez did...and again I say...the fighters that Lopez got knocked down by and got up to win were no where near Gomez' league.
I loved Danny Lopez, but he just was not the better fighter, which I would be willing to bet that most historians would agree with me in that the only way Lopez wins is by knockout, but both men in their prime...Gomez was on another level and his overall ability trumps Lopez scoring a knockout and with the power that Gomez had, well it would be a bad night for Lopez.
You keep mentioning Lopez being bigger...not really...four pounds and a couple of inches do not make a big size advantage!
Hell...it took Lopez 15 rounds to take out Mike Ayala, who was even smaller than Gomez and Ayala, though tough was nowhere near Gomez'.
Not to mention that Lopez had a lot of difficulty against skilled boxers and Gomez would be the best that Lopez would face with the exception of maybe Sanchez.
Hell look at the problems he had with Octravio Gomez and Gomez was nothing more than a bantamweight yet he boxed Lopez' ears off in the first bout, not to mention that Gomez was waaaaaay past his prime in that fight. Of course Lopez KO'd Gomez in the rematch. But being a bit smaller by an inch, or two and a couple of pounds makes little difference. And Lopez was in his prime when he was losing to Octavio Gomez and just a little past it when he faced Mike Ayala. A prime Lopez against a prime Gomez...it would be very, very similar to what happened to Carlos Zarate when Gomes fought him...and Zarate certainly hit as hard as Lopez and Gomez was able to take his punch!
>>>Danny was a lot more durable than you are giving him credit for<<<
He was quite durable, but not against the likes of Wilfredo Gomez. Gomez is an all-time p4p fighter...top 20...possibly even top ten and once hurt Gomez would not let Lopez off the hook as other fighters did. Gomez hit too hard, was too accurate and too skilled.
The only way that Lopez wins is if he lands a lucky shot that puts Gomez out, but I don't see Lopez stopping Gomez!
It's happened, no doubt, but it's very, very rare.
Talking primes...none of the fights that Gomez took punishment in was he in his prime...when he was in his prime his defense was so good that no one could hardly touch him and back that up with the overwhelming fire-power and it simply spells doom for a fighter that took as many shots as Lopez did...and again I say...the fighters that Lopez got knocked down by and got up to win were no where near Gomez' league.
I loved Danny Lopez, but he just was not the better fighter, which I would be willing to bet that most historians would agree with me in that the only way Lopez wins is by knockout, but both men in their prime...Gomez was on another level and his overall ability trumps Lopez scoring a knockout and with the power that Gomez had, well it would be a bad night for Lopez.
You keep mentioning Lopez being bigger...not really...four pounds and a couple of inches do not make a big size advantage!
Hell...it took Lopez 15 rounds to take out Mike Ayala, who was even smaller than Gomez and Ayala, though tough was nowhere near Gomez'.
Not to mention that Lopez had a lot of difficulty against skilled boxers and Gomez would be the best that Lopez would face with the exception of maybe Sanchez.
Hell look at the problems he had with Octravio Gomez and Gomez was nothing more than a bantamweight yet he boxed Lopez' ears off in the first bout, not to mention that Gomez was waaaaaay past his prime in that fight. Of course Lopez KO'd Gomez in the rematch. But being a bit smaller by an inch, or two and a couple of pounds makes little difference. And Lopez was in his prime when he was losing to Octavio Gomez and just a little past it when he faced Mike Ayala. A prime Lopez against a prime Gomez...it would be very, very similar to what happened to Carlos Zarate when Gomes fought him...and Zarate certainly hit as hard as Lopez and Gomez was able to take his punch!
>>>Danny was a lot more durable than you are giving him credit for<<<
He was quite durable, but not against the likes of Wilfredo Gomez. Gomez is an all-time p4p fighter...top 20...possibly even top ten and once hurt Gomez would not let Lopez off the hook as other fighters did. Gomez hit too hard, was too accurate and too skilled.
The only way that Lopez wins is if he lands a lucky shot that puts Gomez out, but I don't see Lopez stopping Gomez!
Re: re
Barry,
I won`t address everything you wrote again, but will say that other than sharing similar physical attibutes, Danny and Carlos respective styles were markedly different. Carlos was like a praying mantis, slowly stalking his foe and looking for openings and making them pay for them.
Danny on the other hand was always working his way in behind that hard jab of his, and he threw it in abundance that and his effective jab-cross-jab combination. He often caught many of his opponents off guard with that finishing jab of his, just ask Mike Ayala.
And once again I disagree with your take that Zarate hit just as hard as Lopez did at 126., who did Zarate ever knock out above bantam that was worth a damn? He never KOed anyone of note as a featherweight, and neither did Gomez for that matter.
What it all comes down to for me is that Lopez showed throughout his career that he was as tough as they come and could absorb an inhuman amount of punishment and still keep coming on strong for a full 15 rounds.
He also had the kind of one punch fight ending power the likes of which Gomez has never felt, save for Zarate who Wilfredo admitted to having seen some stars after tasting a left hook from Carlos... and Zarate don`t even hit as hard as Lopez did!
"Little Red" is gonna keep pressing and jabbing his way in and he is gonna land on Gomez, with Danny`s workrate I don`t care how defensively sound you are you will get hit one way or another.
Sanchez had a proven chin which is why he could withstand some of the bombs that Lopez managed to land on him, and Sanchez was moving around a LOT in both fights and STILL got hit by some heavy artillery.
Gomez while being more defensively sound than Sanchez, still won`t be able to duck and dodge everything Lopez will throw his direction, and he will get tagged and hurt at some point.
Once that happens I think it is inevitable that Lopez will get him out of there with that one big shot. Gomez may well make Danny look foolish for several rounds, but his constant pressure and high workrate will wear down Gomez enough down the stretch to slow him down.
Once that happens, Lopez will land with more regularity and Wilfredo will start to stand his ground more and more and fight back to try and get Danny`s respect and back him off, and it is in one of these eventual exchanges that I see Gomez getting caught with something big and taken out.
Now we can go and on for the next several days debating this back and forth, but I am not up for that and don`t have anything else to add to this discussion that I haven`t already said. If you want to get the last word in go ahead, but I am done with this thread as there are other topics in this section that I want to devote my attention to.
I won`t address everything you wrote again, but will say that other than sharing similar physical attibutes, Danny and Carlos respective styles were markedly different. Carlos was like a praying mantis, slowly stalking his foe and looking for openings and making them pay for them.
Danny on the other hand was always working his way in behind that hard jab of his, and he threw it in abundance that and his effective jab-cross-jab combination. He often caught many of his opponents off guard with that finishing jab of his, just ask Mike Ayala.
And once again I disagree with your take that Zarate hit just as hard as Lopez did at 126., who did Zarate ever knock out above bantam that was worth a damn? He never KOed anyone of note as a featherweight, and neither did Gomez for that matter.
What it all comes down to for me is that Lopez showed throughout his career that he was as tough as they come and could absorb an inhuman amount of punishment and still keep coming on strong for a full 15 rounds.
He also had the kind of one punch fight ending power the likes of which Gomez has never felt, save for Zarate who Wilfredo admitted to having seen some stars after tasting a left hook from Carlos... and Zarate don`t even hit as hard as Lopez did!
"Little Red" is gonna keep pressing and jabbing his way in and he is gonna land on Gomez, with Danny`s workrate I don`t care how defensively sound you are you will get hit one way or another.
Sanchez had a proven chin which is why he could withstand some of the bombs that Lopez managed to land on him, and Sanchez was moving around a LOT in both fights and STILL got hit by some heavy artillery.
Gomez while being more defensively sound than Sanchez, still won`t be able to duck and dodge everything Lopez will throw his direction, and he will get tagged and hurt at some point.
Once that happens I think it is inevitable that Lopez will get him out of there with that one big shot. Gomez may well make Danny look foolish for several rounds, but his constant pressure and high workrate will wear down Gomez enough down the stretch to slow him down.
Once that happens, Lopez will land with more regularity and Wilfredo will start to stand his ground more and more and fight back to try and get Danny`s respect and back him off, and it is in one of these eventual exchanges that I see Gomez getting caught with something big and taken out.
Now we can go and on for the next several days debating this back and forth, but I am not up for that and don`t have anything else to add to this discussion that I haven`t already said. If you want to get the last word in go ahead, but I am done with this thread as there are other topics in this section that I want to devote my attention to.
Barry I know you're a big fan of Gomez as am I.I seem to remember he was about 4 pounds over for the Sanchez weigh in.Do you remember if this is true,it wouldn't be the first time I didn't remember something right,especially 26 years ago.
One thing I've always said about Wilfredo,he did himself a tremendous disservice by staying at 122 for so long.Between his struggle to make weight,his notoriously lax training habits and his other extracurricular activities I believe he severley shortened his prime and career.
I also think that short of walking into a huge punch Gomez would batter a courageous Lopez into a 8-10 round stoppage.
One thing I've always said about Wilfredo,he did himself a tremendous disservice by staying at 122 for so long.Between his struggle to make weight,his notoriously lax training habits and his other extracurricular activities I believe he severley shortened his prime and career.
I also think that short of walking into a huge punch Gomez would batter a courageous Lopez into a 8-10 round stoppage.
Re: re
Barry,barry wrote:
Lopez could get back up and beat the likes of fighters like Juan Malvarez, Kenji Endo and Masano Toyoshima (Toyoshima-Lopez may have been the most exciting fight of the 1970s) but all three of those fighters combined do not equal one Gomez!
About the Lopez vs Endo and Toyoshima fights, would you happen to know wether these were filmed? If they were, would you know where I can find a copy? Please let me know, as I would love to trade for them, and I have some very rare stuff to offer in return. If you can point me in the right direction that would be great, please let me know via pm if you can help me out in that regard.
re
>>>About the Lopez vs Endo and Toyoshima fights, would you happen to know wether these were filmed?<<<
I do not recall if the Lopez bouts you mentioned are available as I do not recall exact fights from so long ago unless I have watched them recently...I don't have copies, but I am pretty certain that they were on local television in Los Angeles. I know I have the info somewhere, but it may take me a little while to locate it, but I'll find out for certain and if they were in fact filmed then it may be a little hard, but I should be able to find someone with copies, but it will be difficult to persuade anyone to let such rare stuff go as those are not the usual fights that are offered by dealers on the net, but if I can come up with copies I'd gladly trade copies...but I have to get a CD/VHS recorder as all of my stuff is mostly on vhs, though I do have a lot of Gomez' fights on dvd...just no way to record them yet. Right now you probably have all that I have on Lopez and Gomez as I do not really have anything rare on the two.
I was actually compiling a list of all the Lopez fights which were televised, but I've got the info mixed up with other stuff and I have so much stuff that I will have to search through that it will likely take me a week, or two to locate it.
Pete:
As to Gomez and his weight...though I have not mentioned anything about it in this thread, I too think that Gomez making 122 greatly hindered his performance later on when he started to put on a little age, but even worse was, later on he no longer trained as he had when he was first coming on the international scene and there is little doubt that his lack of training for the Sanchez bout greatly hurt him in that fight. Now I'm not sure if he could have beaten Sanchez even if he had been in tip-top shape, but I think the bout would have been a lot closer if Gomez would have stayed out of the nightclubs and focused on training instead of being the playboy, which it is well documented that his training became awfully lax.
I actually like Danny Lopez more than I do Gomez, he is just not as good a fighter as Gomez was and I just do not see Lopez beating a fighter as overly skilled as Gomez was...especially if Gomez was in tip-top condition! But I am a big fan of Gomez!! As to Lopez...if there was a more exciting fighter in the history of the sport I would like to know who it is.
More about a Lopez-Gomez bout:
Most of the younger generation of fans just know Lopez by name and record, but they do know about how corageous Arturo Gatti was, which it would seem difficult to find a fighter more gutsy and exciting than earlier Gatti, but Lopez was hands-down more exciting...well...he was the most exciting fighter that I have ever watched. But that too, his willingness to satisfy fans by brawling would hurt him against a technician like Gomez as Gomez would not fall into a battle of wills...I don't think, but then again when Gomez was pushed...he never backed down from a fight, but brawling would be an advantage to Lopez as that would just take all of the advantages that Gomez has away and then it would be anyone's fight...whoever landed the hardest shot first, but I believe that Gomez would fight smart against a seasoned bomber like Danny Lopez.
I do not recall if the Lopez bouts you mentioned are available as I do not recall exact fights from so long ago unless I have watched them recently...I don't have copies, but I am pretty certain that they were on local television in Los Angeles. I know I have the info somewhere, but it may take me a little while to locate it, but I'll find out for certain and if they were in fact filmed then it may be a little hard, but I should be able to find someone with copies, but it will be difficult to persuade anyone to let such rare stuff go as those are not the usual fights that are offered by dealers on the net, but if I can come up with copies I'd gladly trade copies...but I have to get a CD/VHS recorder as all of my stuff is mostly on vhs, though I do have a lot of Gomez' fights on dvd...just no way to record them yet. Right now you probably have all that I have on Lopez and Gomez as I do not really have anything rare on the two.
I was actually compiling a list of all the Lopez fights which were televised, but I've got the info mixed up with other stuff and I have so much stuff that I will have to search through that it will likely take me a week, or two to locate it.
Pete:
As to Gomez and his weight...though I have not mentioned anything about it in this thread, I too think that Gomez making 122 greatly hindered his performance later on when he started to put on a little age, but even worse was, later on he no longer trained as he had when he was first coming on the international scene and there is little doubt that his lack of training for the Sanchez bout greatly hurt him in that fight. Now I'm not sure if he could have beaten Sanchez even if he had been in tip-top shape, but I think the bout would have been a lot closer if Gomez would have stayed out of the nightclubs and focused on training instead of being the playboy, which it is well documented that his training became awfully lax.
I actually like Danny Lopez more than I do Gomez, he is just not as good a fighter as Gomez was and I just do not see Lopez beating a fighter as overly skilled as Gomez was...especially if Gomez was in tip-top condition! But I am a big fan of Gomez!! As to Lopez...if there was a more exciting fighter in the history of the sport I would like to know who it is.
More about a Lopez-Gomez bout:
Most of the younger generation of fans just know Lopez by name and record, but they do know about how corageous Arturo Gatti was, which it would seem difficult to find a fighter more gutsy and exciting than earlier Gatti, but Lopez was hands-down more exciting...well...he was the most exciting fighter that I have ever watched. But that too, his willingness to satisfy fans by brawling would hurt him against a technician like Gomez as Gomez would not fall into a battle of wills...I don't think, but then again when Gomez was pushed...he never backed down from a fight, but brawling would be an advantage to Lopez as that would just take all of the advantages that Gomez has away and then it would be anyone's fight...whoever landed the hardest shot first, but I believe that Gomez would fight smart against a seasoned bomber like Danny Lopez.
Re: re
Barry,barry wrote:>>>About the Lopez vs Endo and Toyoshima fights, would you happen to know wether these were filmed?<<<
I do not recall if the Lopez bouts you mentioned are available as I do not recall exact fights from so long ago unless I have watched them recently...I don't have copies, but I am pretty certain that they were on local television in Los Angeles. I know I have the info somewhere, but it may take me a little while to locate it, but I'll find out for certain and if they were in fact filmed then it may be a little hard, but I should be able to find someone with copies, but it will be difficult to persuade anyone to let such rare stuff go as those are not the usual fights that are offered by dealers on the net, but if I can come up with copies I'd gladly trade copies...but I have to get a CD/VHS recorder as all of my stuff is mostly on vhs, though I do have a lot of Gomez' fights on dvd...just no way to record them yet. Right now you probably have all that I have on Lopez and Gomez as I do not really have anything rare on the two.
I was actually compiling a list of all the Lopez fights which were televised, but I've got the info mixed up with other stuff and I have so much stuff that I will have to search through that it will likely take me a week, or two to locate it.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my querie, I appreciate it. As for wether anyone who has any early Lopez fights, I believe I have quite a few rather rare fights that would sway their opinion on wether or not to trade some of those in exchange.
Heck, if you wish I can send you my list of fights and you can see for yourself, let me know and I would gladly send you my list. Just send me your e-mail address via pm and I will send it to you pronto, and I am quite sure you would find plenty of stuff that would interest you!
Thanks for the reply Barry.One thing about Sanchez v. Gomez it seems to me is that some think Sanchez just totally dominated Gomez from start to finish.Considering the brutal battering Wilfredo took in the first round he actually came back pretty good and made a competitive fight out of it,the thing is he couldn't hurt Sanchez at all and Salvador wasn't going to be denied.