Most over-rated British boxers in history

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 16 Nov 2007, 13:25

The final part in my under/over-rated series.

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2881- ... story.html

No Mancunians this time, I promise!

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 16 Nov 2007, 13:47

Good list.

Certainly can't argue with Cooper at no. 1. All he's got is the Ali knockdown and the spurious myth about the 2 minutes break.

I could never get past Shamrock O' Leary on the McGuigan computer game.

Would put Steve Collins in my top 10. Ditto Scott Harrison, Howard Eastman, Robin Reid and Terry Marsh.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 16 Nov 2007, 13:55

Calzaghe has been getting very overrated since the Lacy and Kessler fights imo, but he was ridiculously underrated before the Lacy fight..

edit: Just heard on the radio that Eubank's been arrested again, just then! Lol..

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Nov 2007, 13:59

Herbie Hide would be my number 1 - no doubting that. British champion and 2 time world champion - but in winning these he only beat Michael Murray, Michael Bent and Tony Tucker (a past it Tucker). Still to this day held in some great light and people thinking he could KO Enzo - based on what I am not sure.

Others worth a mention I would say are - Reid, Henry Wharton, Glen McCory, Julius Francis.

I disagree with your choices of Minter and Windstone - I can see your point, but Windstone was a world class operator in the days when it was alot harder to have that label - thats all he has really been hyped up to be - not an outstanding world champion. A bit like Jim Watt in that respect.

Minter - had some good British title wins.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 16 Nov 2007, 14:56

stujones wrote:Herbie Hide... Still to this day held in some great light and people thinking he could KO Enzo - based on what I am not sure.

Hide's massive punch power and Enzo's questionable punch resistance?

Arbachakov · Post by **Arbachakov** » 16 Nov 2007, 14:58

I don't agree with Winstone and Minter at all.

For one Winstone seems to be more completely forgotten than overrated and Minter is often too heavily criticised for loosing to a true great in Hagler.

Winstone was an exceptional pure boxer, probably one of the divisions best ever and Saldivar was also a true great...not just some ordinary barometer of a world level feather.Winstone was his Dejesus..an excellent fighter in his own right that made his career.

Their trilogy is one of the best in the history of the division and imo for pure talent on display it puts the Barrera vs Morales trilogy right into the ground.He was past his best when he finally did win the title and had already beaten Legra.

Minter was a very good stylist, not really that far behind a Buchanan, but flawed with often poor ring-generalship and very fragile skin.

I actually think Minter and Finnegan were superior and more balanced fighters to any British middle since.

Cooper and McGuigan are good picks.Calzaghe as well for me, though he is an excellent fighter.

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 16 Nov 2007, 15:07

Cooper, oh fornicate aye, i agree with that one. I used to get him mixed up with Tommy Cooper when i was a kid. "How did he go from boxing to this, mum?"

Winstone i have no interesting opinions on

Eubank was fuckin ace, boxing is a business, showbiz really, not a sport and he was very much the man of his day

"money and fame were his goals"

not a stupid man either, then.....

McGuigan, a brilliant pick, perfect reasoning too. Nice bloke tho

Alan Minter is simply the biggest cu nt ive ever met, a total racist pillock. I fcuking hate Alan Minter

My pick is
Barry Mc
Fwank Bruno
Herrol Graham
Nigel Benn
Randolph Turpin

end

Underrated, Tommy Cooper, he was frankly the most naturally funny man this country has ever produced

+ he beat up his wife too!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Nov 2007, 15:20

Horse wrote:
stujones wrote:Herbie Hide... Still to this day held in some great light and people thinking he could KO Enzo - based on what I am not sure.
Hide's massive punch power and Enzo's questionable punch resistance?

When's the last time Herbie KO'd any one decent - oh yeah, sorry he aint ever done it.

I aint really though dispute he doesn't punch, but I would like to see Hide beat someone with a pulse first before making any judgement.

It seems like people have based Hide's KO power on the COMMENTS of a brain damaged Riddick Bowe.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 16 Nov 2007, 15:30

If anything Eubank was under rated.

People too often remember Eubank when he was getting gift decisions in poor performances against the likes of Schommer.

I remember him v Benn and Watson and even in defeat v Thompson and Calzaghe

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 16 Nov 2007, 16:02

What an excellent article. I found that a really interesting read, especially the sections on Eubank and Barry M.

I definitely look back on the Eubank & Benn era as being "special", but then I would - I would have been aged 15-20 years old during their pomp and was absolutely glued to the wars such as Eubank v Watson, and Benn v G-Man. At the time it just seemed incredible... I loved it.

Remember when James Toney and Mickey Rourke were on that live feed prior to Eubank v Benn 2? My eyes were on stalks! Boxing just doesn't seem that way anymore.

As such I can't help but look back at Eubank and just bloody love him!

I'm never going to be into Joe Calzaghe in quite the same way somehow...despite their difference in ability.

Who else is over-rated? Hmmm... Alex Arthur perhaps?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Nov 2007, 16:26

Loftgroov wrote:
I'm never going to be into Joe Calzaghe in quite the same way somehow...despite their difference in ability.

I still think its a tough prediction prime for prime had they fought. Although, now Joe's achievements outweighs Eubank's significantly so is deservedly ranked higher.

whiskey · Post by **whiskey** » 16 Nov 2007, 16:33

I think a lot of the names were simply 'loved' rather than 'rated'.

These kind of lists are always going to rub someone or other the wrong way and it's a brave subject to tackle !

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 16 Nov 2007, 16:33

I'd say Amir Khan, but there's little chance he'll still be rated in retirement.

Ottke's too obvious. In honesty - much as I respect him - Lennox. Not over-rated per se, just given too much credit for beating ageing greats. Can't blame him for Bowe, but there's no '95/96 Holyfield or Tyson on his record.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 16 Nov 2007, 16:46

Grilling Machine wrote:there's no '95/96 Holyfield or Tyson on his record.

No, but then that's not his fault. Tyson didn't exactly beat a prime Larry Holmes did he....

It isn't to say Lennox wouldn't have beaten a prime Holyfield/Tyson. Frankly, I think he had the tools, and he only ever lost when he went into the fight with a stupid attitude. When he was pumped up (e.g. Rahman 2) he was the nuts...

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 16 Nov 2007, 16:58

oliverfennell wrote:The final part in my under/over-rated series.

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2881- ... story.html

No Mancunians this time, I promise!

Surely a tongue in cheek article?

What about Audley Harrison, Amir Khan, Jack Bodell, Naseem Hamed, Clinton Woods, Lennox Lewis and Dave Green?

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 16 Nov 2007, 17:00

Loftgroov wrote:What an excellent article. I found that a really interesting read, especially the sections on Eubank and Barry M.

I definitely look back on the Eubank & Benn era as being "special", but then I would - I would have been aged 15-20 years old during their pomp and was absolutely glued to the wars such as Eubank v Watson, and Benn v G-Man. At the time it just seemed incredible... I loved it.

Remember when James Toney and Mickey Rourke were on that live feed prior to Eubank v Benn 2? My eyes were on stalks! Boxing just doesn't seem that way anymore.

As such I can't help but look back at Eubank and just bloody love him!

I'm never going to be into Joe Calzaghe in quite the same way somehow...despite their difference in ability.

Who else is over-rated? Hmmm... Alex Arthur perhaps?

Alex Arthur is a good fighter mate. A proper fighter.

He will keep the title a while

Then Arthur v Harrison from Ibrox in summer 2008.

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 16 Nov 2007, 17:20

KO Artist wrote:
oliverfennell wrote:The final part in my under/over-rated series.

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2881- ... story.html

No Mancunians this time, I promise!

Surely a tongue in cheek article?

What about Audley Harrison, Amir Khan, Jack Bodell, Naseem Hamed, Clinton Woods, Lennox Lewis and Dave Green?

lennox and naz over-rated?

hows that work then?

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 16 Nov 2007, 17:27

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:
KO Artist wrote:
oliverfennell wrote:The final part in my under/over-rated series.

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2881- ... story.html

No Mancunians this time, I promise!

Surely a tongue in cheek article?

What about Audley Harrison, Amir Khan, Jack Bodell, Naseem Hamed, Clinton Woods, Lennox Lewis and Dave Green?
lennox and naz over-rated?

hows that work then?

A lot of people who dont know about actually boxing rate them as the best in theri division of all time

Thats overrated

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Nov 2007, 17:38

Terry D wrote:
oliverfennell wrote:The final part in my under/over-rated series.

http://www.britishboxing.net/news_2881- ... story.html

No Mancunians this time, I promise!

I agree with 'Enry. The scale of his talk outweighed his achievements. If I recall correctly he says he never got a shot at the title until late but they offered him Liston and he sh*t it. Or his manager did.

You make me sound like one of this provincial nutters Ollie!

He's also claimed he was once offered to fight Jimmy Ellis - I think before the Elimination tourny began for the "WBC" title - but the BBBoC wouldn't recognise him so he would never be able to defend it in the UK - so his team declared no. Imagine the BBBoC doing that now?

That one might have been interesting.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 16 Nov 2007, 17:40

G0mez wrote:I think a lot of the names were simply 'loved' rather than 'rated'.

These kind of lists are always going to rub someone or other the wrong way and it's a brave subject to tackle !

Thats why Im not getting involved - Some suggestions are just silly.

Exoddus · Post by **Exoddus** » 16 Nov 2007, 17:52

Henry Cooper.

No contest.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 17 Nov 2007, 11:49

So can i ask just who these people are that Rate Henry Cooper?
Ask anyone and they will say he was a decent performer who was below world class To be over rated you do actually have to have people saying your a world beater, and no-one is.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 17 Nov 2007, 13:09

Old bones Ian wrote:So can i ask just who these people are that Rate Henry Cooper?

Mostly people over 50. Admittedly not the most knowledgeable of critics, but I heard a LOT of people talk about Cooper being better than Lewis for a lot of Lewis' career. I'm serious.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 17 Nov 2007, 15:03

oliverfennell wrote:
Old bones Ian wrote:So can i ask just who these people are that Rate Henry Cooper?
Mostly people over 50. Admittedly not the most knowledgeable of critics, but I heard a LOT of people talk about Cooper being better than Lewis for a lot of Lewis' career. I'm serious.

You are talking a lot of cack mate.

The most knowledgable man I know, in terms of boxing, is 66. He has been following the game closely for 55 years, he rates Cooper, so do I.

What Cooper fights have you actually seen?

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 17 Nov 2007, 15:25

Probably rates him out of nostalgia.

Henry would have a punchers chance against a lot of guys, but i couldn't even see him mixing for long with Ibragimov, let alone a Chagaev or Wlad K.

Most over-rated British boxers in history

Most over-rated British boxers in history

Re: Most over-rated British boxers in history

Re: Most over-rated British boxers in history

Re: Most over-rated British boxers in history

Re: Most over-rated British boxers in history