overhand_right wrote:Probably rates him out of nostalgia.
Henry would have a punchers chance against a lot of guys, but i couldn't even see him mixing for long with Ibragimov, let alone a Chagaev or Wlad K.
If you honestly beleive that cooper could not give ibragimov a fight, you have either not seen much of cooper or you are unable to evaluate a boxer's capability
The 1971 version of Joe Bugner could well have been champion today.
Loftgroov wrote:
I'm never going to be into Joe Calzaghe in quite the same way somehow...despite their difference in ability.
I still think its a tough prediction prime for prime had they fought. Although, now Joe's achievements outweighs Eubank's significantly so is deservedly ranked higher.
how do u mean "significantly"....Eubank was pretty good and didn't he hold a record at some point of a Brit making world title defences which Calzaghe has only overtaken by a couple.
In addition I believe Chris Eubank would have bullied and then stopped Jeff Lacy in clinical fashion and shown him who the daddy really was.
Which is not to say that Calzaghe didn't do a splendid job on him either.
Old bones Ian wrote:So can i ask just who these people are that Rate Henry Cooper?
Mostly people over 50. Admittedly not the most knowledgeable of critics, but I heard a LOT of people talk about Cooper being better than Lewis for a lot of Lewis' career. I'm serious.
You are talking a lot of cack mate.
The most knowledgable man I know, in terms of boxing, is 66. He has been following the game closely for 55 years, he rates Cooper, so do I.
What Cooper fights have you actually seen?
Blimey lads, this KO Artist is a bit of a lark isn't he, he cant spell either, but never mind..
Cooper beat, again?
Oh and he was 190 pounds, ah yes and he cut easy, ooops and he lost 14 times in his career and stopped 7 times.
I couldn't give a toss whether some rough trade you picked up in a public convenience rates him highly, even if he is 66.
oliverfennell wrote:
Mostly people over 50. Admittedly not the most knowledgeable of critics, but I heard a LOT of people talk about Cooper being better than Lewis for a lot of Lewis' career. I'm serious.
You are talking a lot of cack mate.
The most knowledgable man I know, in terms of boxing, is 66. He has been following the game closely for 55 years, he rates Cooper, so do I.
What Cooper fights have you actually seen?
Blimey lads, this KO Artist is a bit of a lark isn't he, he cant spell either, but never mind..
Cooper beat, again?
Oh and he was 190 pounds, ah yes and he cut easy, ooops and he lost 14 times in his career and stopped 7 times.
I couldn't give a toss whether some rough trade you picked up in a public convenience rates him highly, even if he is 66.
Bit of a mouthy cnunt behind a keyboard, all of 111 posts
Oh and sort your own spelling out before you correct others you dopey pudendum. See the Hide v Macca topic for reference.
this article of olivers is so full of ill conceived rubbish i'm almost speechless.
ok, henry cooper would not have cut it in world class company but minter was by everyones reckoning at the time of the 2nd antuofermo fight the best middleweight in the world. oliver doesnt remember but alan was favourite to beat hagler in that fight. few knew just how great marvelous marvin was.
mcguigan was pretty good against pedroza but absolutely scintillating against bernard taylor. again he was certainly the worlds best in his division (save for all time great nelson.) beaten more by the heat than by steve cruz when he lost his title.
i often find your posts and articles puzzling mr fennel, but this one is just badly thought out.
harrygreb wrote:this article of olivers is so full of ill conceived rubbish i'm almost speechless.
ok, henry cooper would not have cut it in world class company but minter was by everyones reckoning at the time of the 2nd antuofermo fight the best middleweight in the world. oliver doesnt remember but alan was favourite to beat hagler in that fight. few knew just how great marvelous marvin was.
mcguigan was pretty good against pedroza but absolutely scintillating against bernard taylor. again he was certainly the worlds best in his division (save for all time great nelson.) beaten more by the heat than by steve cruz when he lost his title.
i often find your posts and articles puzzling mr fennel, but this one is just badly thought out.
To defend Oliver for a minute (not that he needs me to) I doubt that he's saying that all the fighters on his list weren't good fighters - just that the general public tends to rate them rather more highly than their achievements deserve.
It's good that some have come out with constructive opinions (as above from harry) rather than simply saying it's a load of rubbish and leaving it at that.
You all know it's all about opinions...that's the beauty of this sport!
If Collins's win against Eubank(oh, he did it Twice) is so meaningless then why the hell do people still go on about Calzaghe beating Eubank when Eubank wasnt actually prepared for Calzaghe??
Steve Collins' previous title shots against McCallum and Johnson earned him great respect..
I like the point about Eubank though, I remember all those dodgy as hell decisions the WBO judges gave him. he would be of course, a more VISIBLE champ that Ray Close, disgusting..
funso banjo baby wrote:what was the minter race thing re hagler ? i never heard anything ?
I think it refers to an interview in a newspaper, Minter said something about not losing the title to a black man, not sure if he did actually say that, but it got misrepresented
thepocketrocket wrote:Minter isnt a racist..Hagler and Alan became friends idiot!!
Minter only said that because he was stressed very stupid but no-one has ever thought of him being a true racist!!
Ive met Alan Minter and he was a horrible, horrible racist and had to be stopped from beating up a crippled 65 year old pub landlord by his friends because the landlord wasn't giving him free drinks. (The landlord was giving him free drinks, all night, and his friends, which made the whole incident highly surreal)
he also said "P*ki" and "n*gger" about 35 times in front of women and children, in a 5 minute speech he did at the event. I don't have to write allegedly because i witnessed the whole thing
thepocketrocket wrote:If Collins's win against Eubank(oh, he did it Twice) is so meaningless then why the hell do people still go on about Calzaghe beating Eubank when Eubank wasnt actually prepared for Calzaghe??
Steve Collins' previous title shots against McCallum and Johnson earned him great respect..
I like the point about Eubank though, I remember all those dodgy as hell decisions the WBO judges gave him. he would be of course, a more VISIBLE champ that Ray Close, disgusting..
Both times with Collins, it appeared more a case of Eubank letting the fights slip through his fingers than genuinely meeting his match.
Against Calzaghe, Eubank fought as hard as he could but was more-or-less dominated (although he did have a great moment in the final round).
thepocketrocket wrote:Minter isnt a racist..Hagler and Alan became friends idiot!!
Minter only said that because he was stressed very stupid but no-one has ever thought of him being a true racist!!
Ive met Alan Minter and he was a horrible, horrible racist and had to be stopped from beating up a crippled 65 year old pub landlord by his friends because the landlord wasn't giving him free drinks. (The landlord was giving him free drinks, all night, and his friends, which made the whole incident highly surreal)
he also said "P*ki" and "n*gger" about 35 times in front of women and children, in a 5 minute speech he did at the event. I don't have to write allegedly because i witnessed the whole thing
thepocketrocket wrote:If Collins's win against Eubank(oh, he did it Twice) is so meaningless then why the hell do people still go on about Calzaghe beating Eubank when Eubank wasnt actually prepared for Calzaghe??
Steve Collins' previous title shots against McCallum and Johnson earned him great respect..
I like the point about Eubank though, I remember all those dodgy as hell decisions the WBO judges gave him. he would be of course, a more VISIBLE champ that Ray Close, disgusting..
Both times with Collins, it appeared more a case of Eubank letting the fights slip through his fingers than genuinely meeting his match.
Against Calzaghe, Eubank fought as hard as he could but was more-or-less dominated (although he did have a great moment in the final round).
No, thats how Eubank actually fought,, if you watch his fights then he always fought for about 1 minute every round, thats why he lost so many fights(in reality)
Against Collins he fought a man who battled for 36 minutes in each fight and wouldnt be denied..
Bit like Ray Close but even better!
And quit with the Revisionism over Calzaghe-Eubank, Eubank was dead at the weight!!!
thepocketrocket wrote:
And quit with the Revisionism over Calzaghe-Eubank, Eubank was dead at the weight!!!
You assume incorrectly. I didn't suggest that Eubank was at his best or that was at ease with the weight. It is well documented that he took the fight at short notice and beforehand was planning to campain at light-heavy.
I just think he put more effort into his bout with Calzaghe than he did against Collins.
and i thought we were talking about achievements inside the ropes.
silly me, i must remind the boxing announcers i meet to tell the crowd how pleasant/nasty the combatants are when he does the spiel before a bout.
thepocketrocket wrote:Minter isnt a racist..Hagler and Alan became friends idiot!!
Minter only said that because he was stressed very stupid but no-one has ever thought of him being a true racist!!
Ive met Alan Minter and he was a horrible, horrible racist and had to be stopped from beating up a crippled 65 year old pub landlord by his friends because the landlord wasn't giving him free drinks. (The landlord was giving him free drinks, all night, and his friends, which made the whole incident highly surreal)
he also said "P*ki" and "n*gger" about 35 times in front of women and children, in a 5 minute speech he did at the event. I don't have to write allegedly because i witnessed the whole thing
He is a fcking pudendum of the highest order
Thats a pretty serious allegation you are making.
How you remember 35 quotes of p*k* or ni**er, is incredible, and the fact that Minter was able to fit this into a 5 minute speech is also incredible.
As I said, its a pretty serious charge so I think now is the time for you to reveal your real identity so Minter can have a right of reply, and/or legal action against you.
thepocketrocket wrote:If Collins's win against Eubank(oh, he did it Twice) is so meaningless then why the hell do people still go on about Calzaghe beating Eubank when Eubank wasnt actually prepared for Calzaghe??
Steve Collins' previous title shots against McCallum and Johnson earned him great respect..
I like the point about Eubank though, I remember all those dodgy as hell decisions the WBO judges gave him. he would be of course, a more VISIBLE champ that Ray Close, disgusting..
ALL those dodgy decisions - yes, I remember there were a couple of controvesial(ish) ones - but alot of Eubank's championship fights have been shown in full on Five - really now its only the Watson fight I don't agree with. Maybe the Dan Sherry fight (given that Eubank was docked a shit loads of points).
Loftgroov wrote:
I'm never going to be into Joe Calzaghe in quite the same way somehow...despite their difference in ability.
I still think its a tough prediction prime for prime had they fought. Although, now Joe's achievements outweighs Eubank's significantly so is deservedly ranked higher.
how do u mean "significantly"....Eubank was pretty good and didn't he hold a record at some point of a Brit making world title defences which Calzaghe has only overtaken by a couple.
In addition I believe Chris Eubank would have bullied and then stopped Jeff Lacy in clinical fashion and shown him who the daddy really was.
Which is not to say that Calzaghe didn't do a splendid job on him either.
Yes, but Eubank didn't fight his generation version of Jeff Lacy. There are some pretty awful fighters in Eubank's 15 defence record.
What I meant by "significantly" is that EVERYONE should now have Joe above Eubank - even if you think Eubank would have beaten Joe Prime for Prime (as I do), Joe's achievements now outweigh Chris' by too much and everyone should have him above Chris.
