Best British Heavyweight of all time

Mimmy · Post by **Mimmy** » 20 Nov 2007, 15:52

was it Woodcock, Bruno, Horice Notice, Cooper?? who do you think was the best Heavyweight England ever produced.
( lets go without Lennox lewis as he was only born here and lets face it fought in the olympics as a Canadian)

banjo · Post by **banjo** » 20 Nov 2007, 15:59

bruno

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 20 Nov 2007, 16:08

If Frank Bruno is the best option you better count Lennox Lewis for all he is worth.

For that matter, Canada & Jamaica better do the same. England has a very proud boxing history, but it's greatest talents lie south of the Heavyweight division.

banjo · Post by **banjo** » 20 Nov 2007, 16:20

bruno is the best of an average bunch in my opinion

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 20 Nov 2007, 16:22

You are probably right.

I'm assuming if Lewis is discounted then so is Bob Fitzsimmons.

banjo · Post by **banjo** » 20 Nov 2007, 16:27

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You are probably right.

I'm assuming if Lewis is discounted then so is Bob Fitzsimmons.

as fitzsimmons spent almost his entire life in new zealand id assume so

mcrow · Post by **mcrow** » 20 Nov 2007, 16:30

Lennox Lewis is the best, if he doesn't count then Bruno. Not sure I'd be too proud about bruno being #2 since he got waxed by pretty much every good fighter he faced.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 20 Nov 2007, 17:34

mimmy123 wrote:was it Woodcock, Bruno, Horice Notice, Cooper?? who do you think was the best Heavyweight England ever produced.
( lets go without Lennox lewis as he was only born here and lets face it fought in the olympics as a Canadian)

It's Bugner.
Unless of course you are counting him as Hungarian...

The best ever British heavyweight is the man who used to carry the Union Jack into the ring, and was proud to represent Britain as World Champion...Lennox Lewis

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 20 Nov 2007, 18:23

Farr, Woodcock & Bugner...

1st, 2cd, 3rd as you like, there's a sound argument for all of them!

"average bunch", I think that has to be re-thought!

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 20 Nov 2007, 22:51

I gotta say it was Henry Cooper if Lennox Lewis is not counted as the best heavyweight that England ever produced. He was Heavyweight champion of England and Europe for 10 years.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 21 Nov 2007, 06:18

Lewis was born in Britain and only moved to Canada because his mum did. As soon as he was able to move back to Britain, he did. He flew the Union Jack at all his flight and was a British champion. He's spent more of his life in Britain than in Canada.

Mimmy · Post by **Mimmy** » 21 Nov 2007, 11:02

actually when more names are mentioned its quite suprising how many were born outside the Uk but were british citizens. i guess with that in mind we have to say Lennox Lewis don't we!

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 21 Nov 2007, 16:52

oliverfennell wrote:Lewis was born in Britain and only moved to Canada because his mum did. As soon as he was able to move back to Britain, he did. He flew the Union Jack at all his flight and was a British champion. He's spent more of his life in Britain than in Canada.

Where does he live now?

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 21 Nov 2007, 16:57

Jem Mace. Then Bob Fitzsimmons, then Henry Cooper, then Frank Bruno, then Tommy Farr.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 21 Nov 2007, 18:09

HomicideHenry wrote:Jem Mace. Then Bob Fitzsimmons, then Henry Cooper, then Frank Bruno, then Tommy Farr.

Cooper & Bruno ahead of a slick boxer like Farr?

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 21 Nov 2007, 22:33

It was a hard decision to make, but I don't think it would have been as outrageous as saying Don Cockell or Jack Boddell was a top 10 or higher British Heavyweight.

Tommy Farr was one of Louis' toughest opponents, and he gave alot of former champions and top contenders a tough time. His greatest win, was probably the robbery against Jim Braddock, that and maybe his wins over Max Baer and Tommy Laughran. But he also lost to Baer, and another knock against him was a succession of losses following Louis and for staying too long in the game. He was a great boxer yes, but his reign as British champion wasn't long.

Henry Cooper on the other hand failed against the more elite men of the Heavyweight division and even ducked some (he refused to face Marciano or Liston), but on the British/European level, there is no comparison. He, sadly, is best known as the biggest 'what if' in boxing mythology in the first Ali fight. Cooper was much more than that. People want to talk how easily he got cut, how he dropped Ali and the dubious amount of time in between the rounds; but this man was champion for damn near two decades. That's almost unheard of.

Frank Bruno, on the flip side, is the only Brit (other than Lewis and Fitzsimmons) to win a portion of the Heavyweight title under the Marquis of Queensbury rules. Bruno had alot of potential and always made for entertaining fights, as he gave Tyson trouble, and gave Lewis trouble as well. But, the only real knock against him is that he failed when it came to the more high profile fights of his career, and that he was more or less spoon fed a bunch of bums and over the hill ex contenders on the way up.

I can only imagine, had he come along today, how well he would have faired.

I guess maybe in retrospect I should turn it around, and have Bruno behind Farr, being as Bruno's championship reign on the Commonwealth level was even less than Farr's, and he didn't quite beat the same caliber of opponents that Farr had as well. I guess some of my basis for comparison was that Farr didn't have the Heavyweight fire power one would expect from a Heavyweight, but he did start as a Light Heavyweight, so I guess there's reason enough for it.

Jem Mace, Bob Fitzsimmons, Henry Cooper, Tommy Farr, then Frank Bruno.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 21 Nov 2007, 22:43

Fair enough I suppose. I was thinking, "I don't see Bruno or Cooper beating Farr in a straight fight", but I see you are orienting it around accomplishment, & so you have a valid point.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 22 Nov 2007, 06:09

Collins2000 wrote:
oliverfennell wrote:Lewis was born in Britain and only moved to Canada because his mum did. As soon as he was able to move back to Britain, he did. He flew the Union Jack at all his flight and was a British champion. He's spent more of his life in Britain than in Canada.
Where does he live now?

He lives in a mansion by the beach on a tropical island.

Which I think we would all choose to do if we had the money!

So the fact he retired to Jamaica is not a slight on his "Britishness".

donnellon · Post by **donnellon** » 22 Nov 2007, 10:02

How did Cooper refuse to fight Marciano!?

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 22 Nov 2007, 10:15

If we're not counting Lewis, Tommy Farr. People look at his record with his 30 losses and discount him, but the wide majority came when he was still a teenager and hadn't even grown into his HW body yet. At his best he gave Louis a good tussle for 15 rounds, beat Braddock, Neusel, Loughran, Baer, Burman, and Gaines. At his best only lost to Louis, Baer in a rematch, Burman (which he avenged 3 months later), and Nova in a war. His subsequent losses at the end of his career came in the 1950s after he decided to make comeback following the 2nd World War and a 10 year layoff.

I don't see Bruno or Cooper beating a peak Farr.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 22 Nov 2007, 10:34

agree Dempsey, but I see Tommy and the devastating puncher and very good stand up boxer Bruce Woodcock in a great war...it could be anyone of their's fight, and would make for a great series of meetings!

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 22 Nov 2007, 16:29

Woodcock was a bit of an enigma. May have been rushed along. But I'd go with Tommy Farr, as he probably did deserve the decision against Louis, as well as against Braddock.

Cap

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 22 Nov 2007, 16:47

Cap wrote:Woodcock was a bit of an enigma. May have been rushed along. But I'd go with Tommy Farr, as he probably did deserve the decision against Louis, as well as against Braddock.

Cap

What do you base that on?

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 22 Nov 2007, 18:04

In Cooper's autobiography he said the two men he never would fight was Marciano and Liston. When The Rock was champion,Cooper I believe was ranked inside the top ten, and when Liston dethroned Patterson, he was also a contender, but shyed away from Liston.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 22 Nov 2007, 19:41

HomicideHenry wrote:In Cooper's autobiography he said the two men he never would fight was Marciano and Liston. When The Rock was champion,Cooper I believe was ranked inside the top ten, and when Liston dethroned Patterson, he was also a contender, but shyed away from Liston.

Did he say why he wouldn't fight them? I mean, I can imagine. But it would be interesting to hear his take.

Best British Heavyweight of all time

Best British Heavyweight of all time

Re: Best British Heavyweight of all time