unsanctioned bouts

thenalo · Post by **thenalo** » 19 Nov 2007, 20:58

so what exactly is usa boxing's stand point on somebody with unsanctioned bouts? are they still able to compete amateur or not? i'm not sure if they were paid for the matches.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 19 Nov 2007, 21:11

I think it's a pretty big no-no, especially if they've been paid for it.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 19 Nov 2007, 23:24

I would never allow my sons or my other boxers compete in one. If someone is injured, there isn't any insurance coverage for the athletes, coaches or officials. It is pretty stupid to do it, but I know that there are people who do it.

thenalo · Post by **thenalo** » 20 Nov 2007, 01:37

i ask because there is a boxer in the area that is boxing for usa boxing, but has had a few unsanctioned bouts that they are bragging about. before i leap, i want to make sure i know what the rules are.i think it is unfair for a more experienced boxer being passed for a less experienced one. but i am curious if it is just a rule, or more so of a suggestion.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 20 Nov 2007, 13:24

From the rulebook:

Any boxer who participates in an unsanctioned boxing contest or tournament or in a tough man, wild man, barroom brawl or any similar competition that is never sanctioned by USA Boxing is automatically disqualified. Note: This disqualification will be handled in accordance with established hearings and appeals procedures of USA Boxing (see Article XXII).

Participation in unsanctioned contest or tournament.
Participation in boxing contests or tournaments, which are never sanctioned by USA Boxing, Inc., such as the following:
(1) A boxer cannot participate in an unsanctioned boxing contest or tournament or in a tough man, wild man, barroom brawl or any similar competition that is never sanctioned by USA Boxing, Inc., either before or during the boxer’s membership in USA Boxing. See Section 102.1(1)(e).

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 21 Nov 2007, 08:54

I know it goes on, but if discovered the boxer will not be able to box in local, national or international competitions. So why would anyone do it?

miboxref · Post by **miboxref** » 21 Nov 2007, 09:48

From what I've seen, the boxers do this because the coaches are putting these shows on to avoid the sanction fees and the cost for doctors.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 21 Nov 2007, 10:40

From what I've seen, the boxers do this because the coaches are putting these shows on to avoid the sanction fees and the cost for doctors.

And these coaches are in amateur boxing "for the kids" - BS!!!! Just wait until there is an injury in one of these shows and there isn't any insurance coverage and someone gets sued. I just can't believe that some people would think so little of their boxers to put them in this kind of jeopardy.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 21 Nov 2007, 12:41

I agree with you completely on this one Mel!!! I can't understand why they would risk it. However, I also don't understand why some coaches lie about their boxers ages, experience level, etc. I tell other coaches about my boxers because I don't want my boxers to get injured and I also don't want their boxers to get injured. If I have a strong kid, I tell them so it can be a fair match-up. Sometimes you still have mismatches, but we do our best to avoid it.

miboxref · Post by **miboxref** » 21 Nov 2007, 13:11

Mel, I agree with with that this is crazy, boxing with no insurance. I can't agree about the coaches though. I think some of the guys who put these shows on love these kids like they were their own. They spend hours and hours togther training, traveling, etc. I feel some are just misguided.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 21 Nov 2007, 13:13

miboxref wrote:Mel, I agree with with that this is crazy, boxing with no insurance. I can't agree about the coaches though. I think some of the guys who put these shows on love these kids like they were their own. They spend hours and hours togther training, traveling, etc. I feel some are just misguided.

Misguided for sure. Whoever you are, I probably know you. Are you going to the show tonight in GR?

miboxref · Post by **miboxref** » 21 Nov 2007, 13:25

I won't be at the show tonight, but the state tourney is coming up soon. I'll see you there.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 21 Nov 2007, 14:10

Said Dennis,

However, I also don't understand why some coaches lie about their boxers ages, experience level, etc.

That is one of the biggest reasons why we went to passbooks - an actual record of age, experience, weight, etc. You have every right to look at a boxer's passbook before making a match - and you should.

Said Miboxref,

I can't agree about the coaches though. I think some of the guys who put these shows on love these kids like they were their own. They spend hours and hours togther training, traveling, etc. I feel some are just misguided.

Unless they are totally illiterate and don't attend certification clinics or LBC meetings, I disagree with your above statement. If they loved them like they were their own then they would not break the rules. I'll bet their own kids have insurance!!! Misguided is not a word I would use to describe these coaches - stupid is more like it.

BTW, MBR - the Michigan Mafia said you got lost on your way to the annual meeting via Boston.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 21 Nov 2007, 17:31

miboxref wrote:I won't be at the show tonight, but the state tourney is coming up soon. I'll see you there.

Yep, Dec 7-9. Introduce yourself as miboxref on Boxrec.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 21 Nov 2007, 17:36

Mel - Passbooks can be "lost" and you have no way of knowing the veracity of the person who provides the info for the Duplicate Book. I am careful and try to read between the lines when matchmaking for my boxers. There are many coaches that I trust when they tell me info about their boxers, but there are some coaches that when I am dealing with them I take extra precautions.

thenalo · Post by **thenalo** » 24 Nov 2007, 19:34

amy wrote:
thenalo wrote:i ask because there is a boxer in the area that is boxing for usa boxing, but has had a few unsanctioned bouts that they are bragging about. before i leap, i want to make sure i know what the rules are.i think it is unfair for a more experienced boxer being passed for a less experienced one. but i am curious if it is just a rule, or more so of a suggestion.
No, it's a rule. You're not allowed to do stuff like that, I'm almost certain. Out of curiosity...who is it? What weight at least, do they box for Spokane BC/Airway Falcons?

i take great offense to that! i am the head coach of that gym and i would in no way allow one of my boxers to do that. not only is that, from what i am finding now, illegal, but as i had mentioned earlier unfair to other coaches that i am matchmaking with.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 25 Nov 2007, 13:32

thenalo wrote:
amy wrote:
thenalo wrote:i ask because there is a boxer in the area that is boxing for usa boxing, but has had a few unsanctioned bouts that they are bragging about. before i leap, i want to make sure i know what the rules are.i think it is unfair for a more experienced boxer being passed for a less experienced one. but i am curious if it is just a rule, or more so of a suggestion.
No, it's a rule. You're not allowed to do stuff like that, I'm almost certain. Out of curiosity...who is it? What weight at least, do they box for Spokane BC/Airway Falcons?
i take great offense to that! i am the head coach of that gym and i would in no way allow one of my boxers to do that. not only is that, from what i am finding now, illegal, but as i had mentioned earlier unfair to other coaches that i am matchmaking with.

Well then now we know. With your location one would assume you might be in that area, and there's no way of telling if you're a boxer who thought something was shady or a coach who was wondering if it was a rule or not. It's good though that you wouldn't allow any of your guys to do that, because Spokane BC has some pretty good boxers. What club does the boxer you're curious about box for, is it in the Eastern WA/Spokane area, or elsewhere?

SD-Prophecy · Post by **SD-Prophecy** » 29 Nov 2007, 02:58

If they're paid for it.. they're pros.

squarering · Post by **squarering** » 29 Nov 2007, 22:25

We had a problem once in our LBC where a gym was charging people to come in and watch sparring, That got nixed. Then years ago we had a gym doing underground fights, no doctor, no sanction, no officials, and who knows about the gloves, head gear, or matchmaking. Word got out and they raided one. There were law suites, fines and sanctions against the offender. It was and is nothing but a shady way make money. I would not want my kid in a program that plays those underhanded and dangerous games. sanction fee $300, Doctor $125. Expenses for officials $140. value of not being a slimebag priceless.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 29 Nov 2007, 23:11

We are having a show on Saturday in Grand Rapids. Sanctioned of course. We will have 12-18 bouts. At least 3 very competitive open class bouts.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 30 Nov 2007, 01:01

We were going to have the first event ever in our town this weekend until the rug got pulled out from under us...with under 48 hours until the event. Making us look like jackasses. But there was a really decent show last weekend up in Helena, Caferro put on a heck of a good show.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 30 Nov 2007, 10:29

Kolya - what happened to your show????? Were you able to get another date?

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 30 Nov 2007, 13:31

boxmel wrote:Kolya - what happened to your show????? Were you able to get another date?

No. We couldn't get the sanction transferred in time to another venue so we just can't put it on this weekend, and I don't know all the particulars about getting our sanctioning fee back or whatever. We don't even know about holding another one now, because not only have we been made to look incompetent to the boxing clubs within the state, but to all the members of the community who bought advance tickets from us.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 30 Nov 2007, 13:31

Our show won't get cancelled. It is the 8th Annual Bernie Schmidt Memorial Boxing Show.

Kolya · Post by **Kolya** » 30 Nov 2007, 13:34

Dennis wrote:Our show won't get cancelled. It is the 8th Annual Bernie Schmidt Memorial Boxing Show.

Ours was our first ever, and a chance to let people know what we're about and how we're different from club boxing or toughman.