Muhammad Ali:Can't Judge a Book By It's Cover

[dagosd2000]

I remember when he came out of the Olympics. No athlete ever talked that way about his opponent. I think Sugar Ray Robinson was the only old timer( and modern fighter ) who wasn't upset with him.

Then he joins The Nation of Islam and refuses to go into the Army. The older generation hated him. On the surface he wasn't any thing like them. Even black fighters like Louis and Patterson were not in his corner.

But was there a side to him that was old fashioned and traditional? Was he just as shy inside as he was brash on the outside? In his biographies he supposedly didn't kiss his first girl until he was 18 and then fainted! He always dressed modestly:slacks and sport shirt. Coat and tie,no afro or sideburns. Music:he liked Sam Cooke and groups like The Spinners and Impressions.

When he went to Zaire he didn't know what to expect. The people embraced him,not Foreman. He didn't know what "Ali boom ba yay" meant. Those unfortunate people in Africa knew that inside Ali was something different than what he often appeared in public. It was Ali who did his road work running through the country side. He didn't ask those native kids to run with him. They wanted to. Ali loved picking up babies and talking to villagers even though he didn't speak their verbal language.

Did he say the wrong things at times? He sure did. Anyone with that kind of personality will go too far. He said some rough things about Frazier before their 3rd fight. But after the fight in the ring ,totally drained,one of the things he said was "I love Joe Frazier" I really think he meant that. I also think Ali thinks about refusing to go in the military. I remember when the Ayatollah in Iran was holding our hostages. Ali offered to exchange himself with them. Not long ago I saw Larry Holmes interviewed on ESPN. What Holmes said kind of caught everyone off balance. He said he couldn't "understand how Ali became a fighter. He had so much love for people"

[Diamond WEAPON]

There are many sides to everybody, and it just so happened that Ali liked to be outspoken and loud when it came to boxing, but it didn't mean that he couldn't be humble and very shy in private. People act different ways in different situations. It's very possible that Ali believed all he said about himself or possible that he only did it to hype himself up for a fight and get people's attention or even both. It's for this reason why I don't really hate fighters very often unlike other fans, simply because I know most of them tend to be pretty good natured even if they might act brash and/or rude to their opponents. Look at even Ricardo Mayorga, who probably has said some of the most vile things of maybe any fighter in history. He only does it for publicity and to get himself excited, but after the fight is over he really does have respect for his opponents and probably most all boxers in general, because it's like a brotherhood, and they all have similar goals in their careers and life. Floyd Mayweather is another example, like against Gatti when he has called him a phony and a paper champion but then afterward sung his praises and said how happy he was that he was able to defeat a fighter with the reputation that Gatti had.

[dagosd2000]

It has always interested me that when the fight is over(by KO or decision) the two combatants who've been trash talking to each other weeks before their fight embrace each other with sincerity. The trash talk--a show,a part of the promotion,probably not very sincere. We boxing fans can live without all the phony bravado. We don't need to see that to keep us interested.

But after the fight,seeing two guys giving their best,with one winner,one loser,congradulating each other, respecting each other's effort---we boxing fans can't live without that. It's that momentary closeness between the two, after it's over, that keeps us interested.

[observer1]

Ali and Tyson remind me of each other.
They will trash talk their opponents, but after the fight ... they will be as if their the opponents Best Friend.

I mean the way Tyson Cursed Lewis was indeed Unique and explosive, but right after the fight, he said said he did what he did for promotional reasons and did not mean anything.

Just how Ali "Intimidated" his opponents.

Goes to show these Fightes are not some inhumane animals doing what they do best - Beating each other up. A lot of them are very intelligent

[Goodnight, Irene]

What's always been something of an odd curiousity to me is the way two fighters can be all guns blazing one minute, then best of friends the next. Say two fighters come out for the final round, it's close, & each needs the full ten points to pull out the win. They will violently hammer each other --- punches designed to fell the man for good. But if that fails, when the final bell rings, a second after landing their last shots, they embrace & forget the whole thing. You see it in fights from the 20's, the 50's, the 70's & today.

I get that it's just their business & a sport, & that sport stars in other fields do the same thing --- it's just that punching someone repeatedly in a bid to injure or knock them out, seems so personal to me. I guess given enough exposure & normalcy to a thing, people can get desensitised to just about anything.

[Robinson]

Every person has so many elements that define them. Every person that knows us will have some thing different to say about us, whether marginally or drastic.

Ali is no different. He is an icon, who unlike many was un-polished by PR people and the likes. Becuase of this he rubbed some people up wrong yet brought a smile to the faces of others. He is a boxer first anything else is second. For me as a pugilist he was a great fighter with so much natural talent. A rare thing indeed. Anything else is secondary to that appreciation.

Floyd Patterson was seemingly a nice man, so genuine and with deep compassion, this comes across in most of his fights when he runs over to help them, and even his child like spin after some rounds end. That does not make up for the fact that while great, he was not as good as some one as brash as Ali or as brooding as Liston or as malicious as Tyson.

The superb thing about Boxing is its deep and complex characters, its varying styles and levels of skill.

Ali is just a man. It's a shame many forget this for better and worse.

Kym

[HomicideHenry]

Muhammad Ali, like Jack Johnson, I think sometimes, more than not, went out of his way to truly infuriate people. Sometimes trouble wouldn't even be looking for Ali, so he made trouble, all for the sake of the almighty dollar and to get more attention to his own self.

Ali, despite what people say, in my mind is just as big a con man, as Don King, Bob Arum, or any other crook in the history of the sport. Here he goes from the Louisville Lip, then goes into Islam and preaches that its all about peace and love, then when you actually seen the real ceremonies done by him and the Black Muslims at temples and universities it was how white people were devils, that blacks were the superior race, a white man should be killed if he was with a black woman and/or a white woman should be killed if she was with a black man;---his doctrine was all about segregation and racism. Yet 35-40 some odd years later, he was up for nomination to win the Peace Prize?

True he broke away from Malcom X and others, but it still doesnt change the fact that Ali still didnt break away from Herbert Mohammad and others who spoke the same literature;---then throw in how Ali taunted his opponents, taunted the press, then make excuses for his actions (the Terrell fight is a huge example), etc.

He was a great fighter, and yes at times he has done marvelous things for different charities and the like...but he isn't no saint either.

[oliverfennell]

I mean the way Tyson Cursed Lewis was indeed Unique and explosive, but right after the fight, he said said he did what he did for promotional reasons and did not mean anything.

He was positively fawning. "If you don't think I love you and your mother, you're crazy", and tenderly wiping the sweat from Lewis' face.

[sweetsci]

I think Max Baer may have been the "Fighter" in this exchange (and forgive me if it's not accurate, but I'm pulling it out of my memory):

Reporter: So how do you feel about your oppenent when you're in the ring fighting him?

Fighter: I hate him! I wanna kill him! He's the worst guy in the whole world!

Reporter: Why do you feel that way about him?

Fighter: He's hittin' me, ain't he!?!

Reporter: If you hate him so much, why do you hug him after the fight?

Fighter: He stopped hittin' me, didn't he?

I'm sure fighters experience all kinds of emotions when preparing for a fight and I don't doubt that some of that anamosity going into the bout is real. It's probably a huge relief for the fighter simply to have the fight over and done with.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

="observer1"]Ali and Tyson remind me of each other.
They will trash talk their opponents, but after the fight ... they will be as if their the opponents Best Friend.[/b]
I mean the way Tyson Cursed Lewis was indeed Unique and explosive, but right after the fight, he said said he did what he did for promotional reasons and did not mean anything.

Just how Ali "Intimidated" his opponents.

Goes to show these Fightes are not some inhumane animals doing what they do best - Beating each other up. A lot of them are very intelligent

The difference is I couldn't see Muhammad Ali, in a million years, using sexual innuendo to denigrate an opponent ("I'll make you my girlfriend" ) or threatening to "eat an opponent's children"...I also can't see Ali melting down in a press conference and calling reporters "white boy" and "faggot"... Except for his taunting of Frazier which went over the line most of Ali's taunts were in good nature...

I also don't think Ali deliberately tried to hurt his opponents except Patterson and Terrell who called him by the name (Clay) he abandoned... I don't think Ali would say he wanted to drive an opponent's nose up into his brain...

Everybody including Ali has their darker angels but Ali was basically a good guy... I don't think you can say that about Mike Tyson... That doesn't mean Tyson can't turn someone's lights out...

[p4p1]

Muhammad Ali, like Jack Johnson, I think sometimes, more than not, went out of his way to truly infuriate people. Sometimes trouble wouldn't even be looking for Ali, so he made trouble, all for the sake of the almighty dollar and to get more attention to his own self.

Ali, despite what people say, in my mind is just as big a con man, as Don King, Bob Arum, or any other crook in the history of the sport. Here he goes from the Louisville Lip, then goes into Islam and preaches that its all about peace and love, then when you actually seen the real ceremonies done by him and the Black Muslims at temples and universities it was how white people were devils, that blacks were the superior race, a white man should be killed if he was with a black woman and/or a white woman should be killed if she was with a black man;---his doctrine was all about segregation and racism. Yet 35-40 some odd years later, he was up for nomination to win the Peace Prize?

True he broke away from Malcom X and others, but it still doesnt change the fact that Ali still didnt break away from Herbert Mohammad and others who spoke the same literature;---then throw in how Ali taunted his opponents, taunted the press, then make excuses for his actions (the Terrell fight is a huge example), etc.

He was a great fighter, and yes at times he has done marvelous things for different charities and the like...but he isn't no saint either.

malcomlm x was murdered before ali broke away from the black muslims, ali still had a constract with herbert muhammad and he also bought ali exelent $. malcolm x realised the white devil thing was crap before he was murdered when he saw muslims from all over the world different races praying together all getting on