Thoughts on Eddie Machen and Zora Folley

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 28 Nov 2007, 15:33

IMO both very underated master boxers with great textbook fundamentals. They would be dangerous contenders in any era cause of their skills. folley had quite an impressive jab.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 28 Nov 2007, 16:57

Folley was very skilled . . .he was old-school in that he'd stand there looking very stationary but then explode with his counter-punches out of nowhere. He would also move his head/body at just the right moment to slip punches. He fought extremely relaxed. The one thing that kept him from the elite class was his less than reliable chin.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 28 Nov 2007, 17:07

I bought a Blue 3/4 Ton Chevy Van from Zora Foley at Lou Grubb Chevrolet in Phoenix In 1973.

Tell that to granberry next time he says I don't know nuttin' bout boxing.

scartissue · Post by **scartissue** » 28 Nov 2007, 19:42

Seeing as how he died in '72 you must've got one helluva deal on that van.

Scartissue

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 28 Nov 2007, 19:44

scartissue wrote:Seeing as how he died in '72 you must've got one helluva deal on that van.

Scartissue

Ouch...! sorry about that....He did die soon after.....so my memory was off by a bit....can you ever forgive? And yes I did get a hell of deal. I got the GM employee discount. The Dealership was located at 27th Ave and Camelback Road. So obviously some of the details are sharper in my memory than others. Did you know Zora?

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 28 Nov 2007, 20:34

I have not seen a great deal on Folley. BUt I do like to watch machen fight, he had a interesting style. Somewhat awkward but very technical.

Kym

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 28 Nov 2007, 21:38

BoxBuzz wrote:
scartissue wrote:Seeing as how he died in '72 you must've got one helluva deal on that van.

Scartissue
Ouch...! sorry about that....He did die soon after.....so my memory was off by a bit....can you ever forgive? And yes I did get a hell of deal. I got the GM employee discount. The Dealership was located at 27th Ave and Camelback Road. So obviously some of the details are sharper in my memory than others. Did you know Zora?

I believe you, buzzy.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 28 Nov 2007, 22:25

Collins2000 wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:
scartissue wrote:Seeing as how he died in '72 you must've got one helluva deal on that van.

Scartissue
Ouch...! sorry about that....He did die soon after.....so my memory was off by a bit....can you ever forgive? And yes I did get a hell of deal. I got the GM employee discount. The Dealership was located at 27th Ave and Camelback Road. So obviously some of the details are sharper in my memory than others. Did you know Zora?
I believe you, buzzy.

Anyone who knew Zora knows he sold for Lou Grubb and he sold autos to a lot of folks. My Mother worked for GMAC at the time and knew I was impressed with Zora and made arrangements for me to contact him to process the sale which required special processing for employees or familly of employees for which I qualified due to her job.

Many of us who lived through the sixties may have a problem being precise about things that they did in the 70's. But as I recall I had a good time.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 28 Nov 2007, 23:01

I always liked both these guys. They stayed active,fought the best,and both knew what they were doing inside that ring. Patterson and D'Amato short changed these two. When Floyd was fighting Harris and Rademacher,he should have defended against Zora and Eddie.

I was glad to see Ali give Folley a title shot even though Zora had left his best in the ring and couldn't cope with Ali's speed.

Machen lost to Folley in a 12 rounder and to Patterson after Floyd lost his title. He looked like he might get his shot later, but a young Joe Frazier was too much for him stopping him in 10.

I think they were the same age when they died----just a few months apart. A couple of tough luck fighters

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 29 Nov 2007, 00:14

Machen had been ducked for a number of years, and wouldn't get his shot at Patterson until after the fact that Floyd lost it to Sonny Liston...he lost a decision to Patterson, but had he fought Floyd when he was champion, I think Machen probably would have been champ. He avoided nobody, and even with a broken hand, he went the distance with Liston. It makes one wonder, had his hand not been broken, what the end result would have been: any different than the decision win for Liston or not?

Folley, I can't say I know too much about, but I do recall how Ali said that Folley was one of the best boxers he fought, and how he beat the likes of Henry Cooper and others. They both were good fighters, and who knows, things probably would have been different had they had the opprotunities they should have had happen sooner.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 29 Nov 2007, 01:40

BoxBuzz wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote: Ouch...! sorry about that....He did die soon after.....so my memory was off by a bit....can you ever forgive? And yes I did get a hell of deal. I got the GM employee discount. The Dealership was located at 27th Ave and Camelback Road. So obviously some of the details are sharper in my memory than others. Did you know Zora?
I believe you, buzzy.

Anyone who knew Zora knows he sold for Lou Grubb and he sold autos to a lot of folks. My Mother worked for GMAC at the time and knew I was impressed with Zora and made arrangements for me to contact him to process the sale which required special processing for employees or familly of employees for which I qualified due to her job.

Many of us who lived through the sixties may have a problem being precise about things that they did in the 70's. But as I recall I had a good time.

I wish Crankberry was here. This is the sort of minutiae that gave him a raging semi...

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 29 Nov 2007, 03:22

HomicideHenry wrote:Machen had been ducked for a number of years, and wouldn't get his shot at Patterson until after the fact that Floyd lost it to Sonny Liston...he lost a decision to Patterson, but had he fought Floyd when he was champion, I think Machen probably would have been champ. He avoided nobody, and even with a broken hand, he went the distance with Liston. It makes one wonder, had his hand not been broken, what the end result would have been: any different than the decision win for Liston or not?

Folley, I can't say I know too much about, but I do recall how Ali said that Folley was one of the best boxers he fought, and how he beat the likes of Henry Cooper and others. They both were good fighters, and who knows, things probably would have been different had they had the opprotunities they should have had happen sooner.

To be fair, Machen only lasted the distance because he ran. There wasn't a whole lot in that fight, but Liston at least pursued & forced the action. I think even with a fresh hand Machen could not hurt Liston (who was deceptively tough) & the fight could be ended at any time if Machen stopped moving, as evidenced by his fight with Ingemar Johansson.

I'll say this though --- sore hand or not, I don't blame Machen for running. You couldn't get me in the ring with that monster if I were carrying a grenade launcher. The police accounts of detaining Liston at different times (from obscure teenager to promising prize fighter) makes for some very interesting reading

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 29 Nov 2007, 08:24

Collins2000 wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:
Collins2000 wrote: I believe you, buzzy.

Anyone who knew Zora knows he sold for Lou Grubb and he sold autos to a lot of folks. My Mother worked for GMAC at the time and knew I was impressed with Zora and made arrangements for me to contact him to process the sale which required special processing for employees or familly of employees for which I qualified due to her job.

Many of us who lived through the sixties may have a problem being precise about things that they did in the 70's. But as I recall I had a good time.
I wish Crankberry was here. This is the sort of minutiae that gave him a raging semi...

You know it's sort of sad.....I have no knowledg as to whether Zora could sing or not.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 29 Nov 2007, 23:06

The Machen/Liston fight always interested me. Maybe Eddie hurt his hand,maybe not. What got me was how Liston fought:in the middle of the ring at a fast pace. It looked like both guys were trying to bait the other guy and counter. Liston worked his jab but Machen was hard to hit. I wouldn't say he ran from him though. Sonny said that after the fight.
It wasn't a ring classic,but that's the fastest I ever saw Liston work in the ring. He was a good boxer that night.

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 29 Nov 2007, 23:31

Machen lost to Folley in a 12 rounder and to Patterson after Floyd lost his title. He looked like he might get his shot later, but a young Joe Frazier was too much for him stopping him in 10.
Actually Machen got a shot against in the losing but dull fight to Ernie Terrell for the vacant WBA version in Mar of 65.

Thunder and Lightning · Post by **Thunder and Lightning** » 01 Dec 2007, 06:25

I belive both these guys are two of the best HW's never to win the world title, had Machen not lost to Johansson in 1958 i think he would have gotten a title shot against Patterson because Patterson would have no more place to go but give Machen a shot.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 02 Dec 2007, 19:18

I still think had that of happened, Patterson would have beaten
Machen.

Kym

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 02 Dec 2007, 22:48

Patterson & Machen would have been interesting. Machen was better than most of Patterson's opponents during his two title reigns. Only Liston & I suppose Johansson were superior among Patterson's title challengers.

You know, it's a tough call. I would lean toward Patterson. It is, I fancy, going to be a long fight, & Patterson showed lasting stamina & a pretty high workrate that allowed him to be very competitive with Jimmy Ellis when he was well past it, almost culminating in him winning the title a third time. A younger Patterson would've beaten Ellis, & I like his output, stamina & speed to get him past Machen on points. He also did a pretty handy job of dealing with a dangerous fighter in Oscar Bonavena when, again, he was an old man. Machen was crafty & a good boxer though, & knew his way around a ring. It'd be tight on the cards I think.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 02 Dec 2007, 23:15

I think it would be a faster paced version of when the pair met in 1964. Both guys were wise and fresh enough to give most top tier fighters a tough bout.

Patterson at this time was shakey from his second loss to Liston, had a stoppage win over Amonti, then he went on to win a game fight against Machen.

Machen was near the end of his carreer would face Terrell before the Patterson fight and in 1964 was still very much in it. I think both guys would have benefited from the youth if they met in 1959. BUT I think Patterson would have been faster and with more spring about him to trouble Machen in a points win.

Good fight if it had happened.

Kym

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 02 Dec 2007, 23:35

Having trouble establishing a signature. Are they blocked on this board? Anyone know?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 03 Dec 2007, 13:47

dagosd2000 wrote:The Machen/Liston fight always interested me. Maybe Eddie hurt his hand,maybe not. What got me was how Liston fought:in the middle of the ring at a fast pace. It looked like both guys were trying to bait the other guy and counter. Liston worked his jab but Machen was hard to hit. I wouldn't say he ran from him though. Sonny said that after the fight.
It wasn't a ring classic,but that's the fastest I ever saw Liston work in the ring. He was a good boxer that night.

I agree with you about Machen not running. You hear that a lot, but if you actually watch the fight, you see that Machen wasn't "running" at all. Liston just wasn't able to do much damage, though he certainly deserved the decision; Machen was even less effective offensively.

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 03 Dec 2007, 16:51

HomicideHenry wrote:Machen had been ducked for a number of years, and wouldn't get his shot at Patterson until after the fact that Floyd lost it to Sonny Liston...he lost a decision to Patterson, but had he fought Floyd when he was champion, I think Machen probably would have been champ. He avoided nobody, and even with a broken hand, he went the distance with Liston. It makes one wonder, had his hand not been broken, what the end result would have been: any different than the decision win for Liston or not?

Folley, I can't say I know too much about, but I do recall how Ali said that Folley was one of the best boxers he fought, and how he beat the likes of Henry Cooper and others. They both were good fighters, and who knows, things probably would have been different had they had the opprotunities they should have had happen sooner.

Patterson did not "duck" Machen. Machen was in line for a title fight with Floyd when he took Ingemar Johannson on as a warm up fight and got KOed in one round, so Patterson fought the man that beat him.

Thunder and Lightning · Post by **Thunder and Lightning** » 05 Dec 2007, 13:41

Brute wrote:
HomicideHenry wrote:Machen had been ducked for a number of years, and wouldn't get his shot at Patterson until after the fact that Floyd lost it to Sonny Liston...he lost a decision to Patterson, but had he fought Floyd when he was champion, I think Machen probably would have been champ. He avoided nobody, and even with a broken hand, he went the distance with Liston. It makes one wonder, had his hand not been broken, what the end result would have been: any different than the decision win for Liston or not?

Folley, I can't say I know too much about, but I do recall how Ali said that Folley was one of the best boxers he fought, and how he beat the likes of Henry Cooper and others. They both were good fighters, and who knows, things probably would have been different had they had the opprotunities they should have had happen sooner.
Patterson did not "duck" Machen. Machen was in line for a title fight with Floyd when he took Ingemar Johannson on as a warm up fight and got KOed in one round, so Patterson fought the man that beat him.

Not realy true Patterson probably should have fought Machen before, he was ranked over all the fighters Patterson faced for the title but had he not gotten knocked out against Johansson he would have gotten the shot i think.