Heavyweights: Buster Douglas vs Razor Ruddock

[elmersalsa]

Both gave the great "Iron" Mike Tyson great battles. One won and the other lost to Mike twice. Who wins?

[elmersalsa]

Interesting scrap by two tough men. I pick Lopez

[Mimmy]

i dont think Douglas was that good really, sure he won the world title by stopping a washed up tyson but in terms of heavyweight greatness that is all he will be remembered by. Douglas was just damn lucky he fought tyson that night, im sure a lot of heavyweights would have KOed tyson that night or the next fight.

who had douglas fought prior to tyson? an aging trevor berbick, a loony toons mccall, and a bunch of nobodies. In reality i think douglas was hand picked for that fight, and wasn't supposed to win.

im not knocking douglas he did what he had to do, and i m sure ruddock was a better fighter.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"i dont think Douglas was that good really, sure he won the world title by stopping a washed up tyson..." - Mimmy

Washed up!? Mike Tyson was a 23-year-old fighter at the peak of his powers, in his prime. He wasn't in shape this, he didn't have a good corner that...

I'm sure he took Douglas lightly & trained accordingly. That doesn't mean he wasn't a fighter in his prime. He was untouchable at this stage of his career.

Buster Douglas beat a prime Mike Tyson. No two ways about it.

[overhand_right]

i dont think Douglas was that good really, sure he won the world title by stopping a washed up tyson ... im sure a lot of heavyweights would have KOed tyson that night or the next fight.
.

What a retarded comment.

You'll get yourself laughed off a boxing forum with shit like that bud.

[overhand_right]

Buster Douglas beat a prime Mike Tyson. No two ways about it.

Agreed, no way of avoiding it whatsoever.

"Washed up" at 23 yrs old, 37-0 and 10 straight title fights? What a complete feckin inbred.

[dempseyfire]

i dont think Douglas was that good really, sure he won the world title by stopping a washed up tyson but in terms of heavyweight greatness that is all he will be remembered by. Douglas was just damn lucky he fought tyson that night, im sure a lot of heavyweights would have KOed tyson that night or the next fight.

who had douglas fought prior to tyson? an aging trevor berbick, a loony toons mccall, and a bunch of nobodies. In reality i think douglas was hand picked for that fight, and wasn't supposed to win.

im not knocking douglas he did what he had to do, and i m sure ruddock was a better fighter.

And who did Ruddock beat?

Douglas beating McCall and Tyson (instead of getting beat up by Tyson twice like Razor did) by itself is leagues beyond anything Ruddock ever accomplished. Douglas was also much more skilled. Best v best Douglas wins a white-wash decision.

[The Great John L]

Douglas beating McCall and Tyson (instead of getting beat up by Tyson twice like Razor did) by itself is leagues beyond anything Ruddock ever accomplished. Douglas was also much more skilled. Best v best Douglas wins a white-wash decision.

Agreed. While Douglas was a big underdog going into the Tyson fight, that was due more to the Tyson aura than any Douglas shortcomings. Douglas had very good skills, he just didn't like to train. The few fights where he was well prepared, he was a very good HW. And going into the Tyson fight he had beaten 3 pretty good HWs.

A well trained Douglas would have spanked Ruddock.

[BoxBuzz]

In some ways Tyson and Douglas both fell victim to the same problem. Lack of committment to excellence. And it's possible they both had top potential. Far more demonstrated by Tyson....except on one fateful night.

[observer1]

Tyson as not Washed up Then, he was going really good.
Hence it was the biggest upset in Boxing History according to some.

Tyson did however take the fight to lightly. I Heard he even go Floored by his sparring partner a week before the fight.

That was the time Tysons Problems outisde the ring started taking over...

With Ruddock. Ruddock was never the same man after he Fought Tyson twice and lost twice.
Both Tyson and Ruddock Gave it everything in those two fights.

Tyson also said Ruddock is probably the hardest Puncer he has ever faced

Im sure Holyfield decline the chance to fight ruddock.

I personally think Ruddock would have taken Douglas

[dempseyfire]

Tyson as not Washed up Then, he was going really good.
Hence it was the biggest upset in Boxing History according to some.

Tyson did however take the fight to lightly. I Heard he even go Floored by his sparring partner a week before the fight.

That was the time Tysons Problems outisde the ring started taking over...

With Ruddock. Ruddock was never the same man after he Fought Tyson twice and lost twice.
Both Tyson and Ruddock Gave it everything in those two fights.

Tyson also said Ruddock is probably the hardest Puncer he has ever faced

Im sure Holyfield decline the chance to fight ruddock.

I personally think Ruddock would have taken Douglas

Getting knocked down in sparring really isn't a big deal at all. Greg Page caught him with a balance shot and Tyson got right back up. That story is made to have much greater significance than it really has. I think McCall dropped Tyson before the Spinks bout but no-one ever mentions that.

Both Tyson-Ruddock bouts are sloppy and clinch-filled. There are some good exchanges but I don't see those fights as rising the merits of either fighter in my book. Holyfield in 1991 would have DESTROYED Ruddock, no contest.

[observer1]

im sure Holyfield did not want to Fight Ruddock... thats what i read countless times...

oh well, you could argue about it all day

[dempseyfire]

im sure Holyfield did not want to Fight Ruddock... thats what i read countless times...

oh well, you could argue about it all day

When would Holyfield have ducked Ruddock? Beyond Ruddock's management I've never read about any proof Holyfield avoided a Ruddock fight. This is a guy who fought Lewis twice, Bowe 3 times, Tyson twice, Foreman, Mercer, Qawi etc. I don't think Razor Ruddock had Evander shaking in his boots or at all hesistant.

[meade95]

Interestint match-up. Dougles was a damn fine HW when motivated. Had plenty of natural skills....

I likely see Douglas by UD......For the first 6 rounds...Ruddock would have a shot at scoring at KO/TKO.

As for the silly notion that Holyfield ducked (or would duck) Ruddock....That is just garbage.....Like him or hate him....reality is reality...Holyfield never ducked a sole (from Qawi in only his 11th pro fight) all the way through his career. The guy IS the common denominator of all the top guys from CW through HW from the late 80's into the late 90s........He fought everybody that was in line to be fought...

[RazorKO]

Buster Douglas beat a prime Mike Tyson. No two ways about it.

I completly disagree, Tyson was never the same after the Spinks fight when he fired Rooney and Cayton from his corner. The first Bruno fight showed he was slowing down due to inadequate training, Tyson just walked right in winging punches and even managed to get stunned in the first....A Prime Tyson would of bobbed, weaved and used his jab to neutralise Bruno's defense.

Tyson was absolutley not in at his best when he fought Douglas, Tyson did not train seriously and even floored by Page in sparring. Hell his corner had a freakin condom filled with ice rather than a swelling compress in the Douglas match! That shows right there the incompetance of his cornermen, a prime Tyson however with Rooney by his side would of demolished Douglas easy and quick.

[Robinson]

I think say in a prime for prime match up, I am slightly going to err on the side of a constant jabbing and smooth rolling Douglas.

Ruddock is a pretty capable guy that will give men in any era trouble, regardless of the out come. He had good size, speed, and power let alone a balanced tool box. He probabbly could have used the jab more, bt in any case he was a good upper tier fighter.

I see both men mixing it up early with douglas trying to box and move, getting into scraps with Ruddock who looks for the 'smash' early, he seldom lands it and does not set it up well enough. Douglas working behind his jab throws long range crosses and the occasional uppercut.

Both men slow down and flatten there step around the 7th round, Douglas is a little more active and wins these rounds more to his activity levels as opposed to effectivness.

A good fight but not a classic. Douglas by close, but tidy decision.

Kym

[Goodnight, Irene]

"I completly disagree, Tyson was never the same after the Spinks fight when he fired Rooney and Cayton from his corner. The first Bruno fight showed he was slowing down due to inadequate training, Tyson just walked right in winging punches and even managed to get stunned in the first....A Prime Tyson would of bobbed, weaved and used his jab to neutralise Bruno's defense.

Tyson was absolutley not in at his best when he fought Douglas, Tyson did not train seriously and even floored by Page in sparring. Hell his corner had a freakin condom filled with ice rather than a swelling compress in the Douglas match! That shows right there the incompetance of his cornermen, a prime Tyson however with Rooney by his side would of demolished Douglas easy and quick." - RazorKO

There is a distinction to be made between how well a fighter is performing & whether or not they are in their prime. A fighter's prime has never, ever, in the history of boxing, been decided by who's in their corner. They may fight a better gameplan or be more focused with trainer X in their corner, but the fighter's prime is just that, the fighter's. & Mike Tyson, five years a pro, 37-0, twenty-three years of age, with no real wars or truly hard, gruelling fights behind him, was in no way past his prime. The very idea makes no sense at all.

As for the Bruno fight, as Jim Lampley noted, once Tyson went to the body --- which he had initially failed to do --- the fight ended pretty quickly. Bruno also held for dear life & rabbit punched wildly, spurred into a frenzy by fear. When a big strong man like that does more wrestling & holding than fighting, of course you aren't going to look fantastic. I agree Tyson was better prepped & more focused under Rooney --- I agree he suffered under the stupidity of Aaron Snowell & the rest of that poorly-chosen cornerteam. But to say his prime was, "suddenly over" because someone left his corner is non-sensical.

[Robinson]

Tyson was still very much young, fit and 'peak' around that time. Right up until his conviction. He was lazier and less effective. But he was not over the hill in no way.

I would say that he had some good wins and fights right up until jail. Alot of 'prime' guys stumble through there career and look bad, Tyson is no different. His style changed a bit, due to work ethic in the gym and outside direction.

I think Tyson was still near prime after his lay off. He was 'over the hill' by around 2000. To many outside ring incidents, in-consistent fights, and lack of focus were more to affect him that any damage sustained inside the ropes.

Douglas beating 1990 Tyson was huge. Tyson may have taken Douglas lightly, he still did have his moments in that fight. Albeit brief. That Douglas that fought Tyson was in superb shape, disciplined, well trained and FOCUSED. He fought a great fight and I think to say that he would have lost on that night to alot of other guys robs Douglas of a really genuinely great achievement.

Kym

[Collins2000]

i dont think Douglas was that good really, sure he won the world title by stopping a washed up tyson but in terms of heavyweight greatness that is all he will be remembered by. Douglas was just damn lucky he fought tyson that night, im sure a lot of heavyweights would have KOed tyson that night or the next fight.

who had douglas fought prior to tyson? an aging trevor berbick, a loony toons mccall, and a bunch of nobodies. In reality i think douglas was hand picked for that fight, and wasn't supposed to win.

im not knocking douglas he did what he had to do, and i m sure ruddock was a better fighter.

Mimmy, you ever seen a boxing match or do you just get your views from the Daily Spurt?

[Mimmy]

i dont think Douglas was that good really, sure he won the world title by stopping a washed up tyson but in terms of heavyweight greatness that is all he will be remembered by. Douglas was just damn lucky he fought tyson that night, im sure a lot of heavyweights would have KOed tyson that night or the next fight.

who had douglas fought prior to tyson? an aging trevor berbick, a loony toons mccall, and a bunch of nobodies. In reality i think douglas was hand picked for that fight, and wasn't supposed to win.

im not knocking douglas he did what he had to do, and i m sure ruddock was a better fighter.

Mimmy, you ever seen a boxing match or do you just get your views from the Daily Spurt?

i have been to lots of fights:
ive seen Tommy Hearns fight, George Foreman, Naseem hamed, Chris Eubank.

Ive been to a few world title fights, i seen lots of non title fights and lots of domestic fights.

we see lots of things differently in life. it looks like i dont get any favors in this topic but that dont make me crazy or blind. Im sure on that night lots of fighters would have beaten Tyson. maybe i used the word 'washed up' wrongly. but i do stand by that tyson was not in his prime, he had too much going on in his life. Im sure i read somewhere that tyson peeked in his fight with spinks.

I think when i used the word 'washed up' i didnt mean tyson was over the hill, of course Tyson was a great heavyweight and brought the sport back to the fans and did sweep aside everyone in that division.

i think i should have used the word 'side tracked' because of everyone around him, all the cling ons etc.

im not sure ive redemed myself but there you go

[Syntax Error]

i dont think Douglas was that good really, sure he won the world title by stopping a washed up tyson but in terms of heavyweight greatness that is all he will be remembered by. Douglas was just damn lucky he fought tyson that night, im sure a lot of heavyweights would have KOed tyson that night or the next fight.

who had douglas fought prior to tyson? an aging trevor berbick, a loony toons mccall, and a bunch of nobodies. In reality i think douglas was hand picked for that fight, and wasn't supposed to win.

im not knocking douglas he did what he had to do, and i m sure ruddock was a better fighter.

Tyson was 23 when he lost to Douglas!

Give Douglas some credit for beating a guy who was a 42-1 favourite.

Douglas won because he executed a great game plan against a man who was complacent & believed all the hype that was written about himself.

Douglas -v- Ruddock would have been interesting.

I'm inclined to think that a properly motivated Douglas could have won this one on points.

He could box when he wanted to & as he showed against Tyson, he had some heart when motivated & when prepared.

Ruddock had dreadful stamina, a poor defence & was even more one dimensional than Mike Tyson was in their 1991 fights.

Saying that, he always had the equaliser to fall back on & if he detonated that punch off Buster's chin, who knows what would have happened.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Judging by the way Douglas dropped as if shot from the single punch Holyfield used to put him out, I'd say a Ruddock left hook would've nearly killed him.

I'm actually the odd man out here thinking Ruddock would win this. I'm taking the most regular version of Douglas, mind you, & not the one-off we saw against Tyson. This more consistent Douglas was lazy, lacked stamina & always suffered from a soft chin. Ruddock seems to me to be undersold, & it's probably because of the loss to Lewis. While limited, he was a dangerous guy & a genuine contender.

Ruddock KO6.

[dempseyfire]

"I completly disagree, Tyson was never the same after the Spinks fight when he fired Rooney and Cayton from his corner. The first Bruno fight showed he was slowing down due to inadequate training, Tyson just walked right in winging punches and even managed to get stunned in the first....A Prime Tyson would of bobbed, weaved and used his jab to neutralise Bruno's defense.

Tyson was absolutley not in at his best when he fought Douglas, Tyson did not train seriously and even floored by Page in sparring. Hell his corner had a freakin condom filled with ice rather than a swelling compress in the Douglas match! That shows right there the incompetance of his cornermen, a prime Tyson however with Rooney by his side would of demolished Douglas easy and quick." - RazorKO

There is a distinction to be made between how well a fighter is performing & whether or not they are in their prime. A fighter's prime has never, ever, in the history of boxing, been decided by who's in their corner. They may fight a better gameplan or be more focused with trainer X in their corner, but the fighter's prime is just that, the fighter's. & Mike Tyson, five years a pro, 37-0, twenty-three years of age, with no real wars or truly hard, gruelling fights behind him, was in no way past his prime. The very idea makes no sense at all.

As for the Bruno fight, as Jim Lampley noted, once Tyson went to the body --- which he had initially failed to do --- the fight ended pretty quickly. Bruno also held for dear life & rabbit punched wildly, spurred into a frenzy by fear. When a big strong man like that does more wrestling & holding than fighting, of course you aren't going to look fantastic. I agree Tyson was better prepped & more focused under Rooney --- I agree he suffered under the stupidity of Aaron Snowell & the rest of that poorly-chosen cornerteam. But to say his prime was, "suddenly over" because someone left his corner is non-sensical.

Snowell actually was giving Tyson SPOT-ON advice throughout the Douglas fight . . .listen to the corner. Of course the whole condom ice bag thing was pathetic, but that was just b/c no-one besides Douglas thought he'd been swelling up Tyson's eyes.

Douglas fought Tyson like none of his other title opponents had . . he didn't run (like Tucker) he didn't fight close (Tubbs), just clinch after every punch (Bruno, Smith) or stand there flat-footed (Thomas, Berbick) . . Douglas stayed on his toes, threw combinations, and then side stepped/switched angles or (briefly) tied up, still in place to counter and everything set up with a wonderful left jab. Beautiful fight plan.

[Brute]

It is really surprising that Douglas and Ruddock never fought. They were both rated heavyweights of that era, and apart from the two fights against Tyson, Ruddock only lost to Lewis and Morrison, apart from a loss to Jaco in an eight rounder early in his career.

Douglas trained for the fight against Tyson like he never trained for a fight in his life. Mike obviously had no gym spies active, or he would have known something was up.

I don't know what I enjoyed more that day. Buster flattening Mike or the howls of the Tyson fan club.

[Ambling Alp]

Unfortunately, there were many logical fights in the 1990's that didn't occur. (Bowe-Lewis,Bowe-Tyson,Tyson-Lewis,etc.) Most fighters didn't seem to want to take the risk.

At his best, Douglas would have beaten Ruddock. He was far more skilled. However, he usually didn't fight at his best. Ruddock probably would have won by a mid round knockout.