Death in MMA

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 02 Dec 2007, 22:11

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=10203

Not sure if you have seen this on the other forum but sadly it looks like MMA claimed a casualty. I wonder what this means for boxing and other combat sports. I have a feeling it'll lead to calls for all to be banned.

Don't know much about it but I hope they can review MMA rules to work out wether anything can be learned to stop it happening again.

STP · Post by **STP** » 02 Dec 2007, 23:04

Hardly suprising.

And there's plenty more where that came from. A guy with dense bone structure and gravity, using the knees and elbows, will do some major head damage to a guy without a dense skull. It's only a matter of time before there are more cage tragedies. There are far more MMA fighters than ever right now and it's still growing...

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 03 Dec 2007, 09:16

MMA is extremely low profile in the UK at the moment, so the impact will probably be negligible.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 03 Dec 2007, 09:19

Not much talk about MMA in UK, but i once saw something on some sports channel. I Think it was MMA, not sure. I just saw one guy on the floot, and the other Just jump in the air and Stomp on the guys face with the right foot.

I was like WTF !??

if thats MMAi m not surprised if peoplec all it to be banned

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Dec 2007, 09:38

observer1 wrote:Not much talk about MMA in UK, but i once saw something on some sports channel. I Think it was MMA, not sure. I just saw one guy on the floot, and the other Just jump in the air and Stomp on the guys face with the right foot.

I was like WTF !??

if thats MMAi m not surprised if peoplec all it to be banned

That is called spiking, and is not allowed in MMA any more.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 03 Dec 2007, 11:06

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
observer1 wrote:Not much talk about MMA in UK, but i once saw something on some sports channel. I Think it was MMA, not sure. I just saw one guy on the floot, and the other Just jump in the air and Stomp on the guys face with the right foot.

I was like WTF !??

if thats MMAi m not surprised if peoplec all it to be banned
That is called spiking, and is not allowed in MMA any more.

I think you misread his post James - what he saw was a socer kick or head stomp and these kicks to a downed fighter are/were common in Japan promotions such as K1/Rings/Pride

The 'kings of the soccer kick' are undoubtedly the hugely successful Chute Boxe team from Brazil.

Spiking is similar to what we know of in rugby - drilling a fighter who has been picked up head first into the ground.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Dec 2007, 12:31

Oh right, sorry, However, I know that in UFC they have banned head stomps now.

In fact, UFC seems to be becoming more and more like boxing if anything, as time goes on.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 03 Dec 2007, 12:56

Boxing does its best from the ref stepping in to stop a fight, to the fighters corner throwing in the towel to save a fighter from getting seriously injured - A doctor at ringside and St Johns ambulance all contribute to making the sport as safe as it can be made - Strict rules which the ref makes sure the fighters adhere to, also helps to prevent the fighters from fouling ie headbuts and low blows - Ultimate fighting, cage fights etc which I know little or nothing about seem to me far more dangerous - What safety measures are employed, I honestly dont know - Not something I feel inclined to follow, I have to say - I have seen the odd bout and it doesnt really appeal - All sports have the occasional tragedy, such as footballers having heart attacks while playing - As long as the organizers of any sport do their best to provide medical help if its needed thats good enough - F1 is potentially very dangerous but the medical backup facilities cannot be bettered.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Dec 2007, 13:09

UFC fights they are very quick indeed to stop the fight when someone get's grounded and are under attack, however, the worry is that someone could end up getting their skull fractured before the ref gets there.

It's also true that smaller gloves mean that a fighter is more easily rendered unconscious, which is actually less damaging in the long term than being repeatedly punched in the head and having your brain squished about.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 03 Dec 2007, 15:15

I think a mixture of being able to kick to the head, the thin gloves and what they call ground and pound means that there is always a chance of people suffering serious trauma to peoples head.

The thing that worries me is that with these small shows I don't think they will have the kind of insurance for these guys families that UFC would have, given the guy had a wife and 7 year old kid you have to worry for them.

I think the people who follow MMA/UFC like the freak show but when it starts to get that real I don't know how they will react. As I say I hope they will learn something from that as boxing in the country did post Micheal Watson.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 03 Dec 2007, 17:05

I watched Cage Rage Live earlier on Sky+. Call me a snob, but it was a bit "council estate entertainment".

Bit like watching the crowd during the darts on TV. Most look like they've just walked off the set of the Jeremy Kyle show.

MMA seems ok, but I only like it when they stand up and fight. All the rolling around on the floor and grappling requires a lot of skill I'm sure, but it isn't much of a spectacle.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 03 Dec 2007, 17:11

Loftgroov wrote:I watched Cage Rage Live earlier on Sky+. Call me a snob, but it was a bit "council estate entertainment".

Bit like watching the crowd during the darts on TV. Most look like they've just walked off the set of the Jeremy Kyle show.

MMA seems ok, but I only like it when they stand up and fight. All the rolling around on the floor and grappling requires a lot of skill I'm sure, but it isn't much of a spectacle.

What did you think of Cahoon's KO in the main support? It was a single, heavy over hand right - a peach of a punch.

I know what you mean in terms of production values re: cage rage - those two old baldies are dreadful ( I know they own the promotion, but they should let professionals do it ) and the dancing girls give it that 'chav' edge, but the fights can be exciting and the cards are often more evenly matched then the average boxing card.

MMA is a long way off the pace in terms of overall product for me but there are areas boxing could learn from.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 03 Dec 2007, 18:55

Loftgroov wrote:I watched Cage Rage Live earlier on Sky+. Call me a snob, but it was a bit "council estate entertainment".

Bit like watching the crowd during the darts on TV. Most look like they've just walked off the set of the Jeremy Kyle show.

MMA seems ok, but I only like it when they stand up and fight. All the rolling around on the floor and grappling requires a lot of skill I'm sure, but it isn't much of a spectacle.

Yes I can see them now, the men wearing cloth caps and the women in curlers, sitting in front of their TVs eating fish and chips with their feet in bowls of water - Yes it does sound snobby and I fail to understand the analogy - WTF does it have to do with this ultimate fighting stuff or the total twats who go on the Jeremy Kyle show or fans who attend darts matches - Come on pal if you do want to go off subject dont go knocking the working classes who live on council estates.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 03 Dec 2007, 20:40

http://www.secondsout.com/USA/news.cfm?ccs=229&cs=23364 very good Tomas Hauser artical on the two sports respective qualities.

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 04 Dec 2007, 07:46

Statistically speaking MMA is much safer than boxing, and bizarrely, professional wrestling

Tony Lumb · Post by **Tony Lumb** » 04 Dec 2007, 09:24

Loftgroov wrote:I watched Cage Rage Live earlier on Sky+. Call me a snob, but it was a bit "council estate entertainment".

I'm a huge MMA fan, but Cage Rage is a joke, and has little credibility in the world of MMA.

And yes, the 2 presenters are total knobs.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 04 Dec 2007, 10:04

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Statistically speaking MMA is much safer than boxing, and bizarrely, professional wrestling

By what measure do you reach that conclusion? There have been less deaths but probably not less deaths per fight.

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 04 Dec 2007, 10:16

josh fg wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Statistically speaking MMA is much safer than boxing, and bizarrely, professional wrestling
By what measure do you reach that conclusion? There have been less deaths but probably not less deaths per fight.

by using statistics.....

divide number of known fights by number of known deaths of the sport in question and, you know.... go nuts... or whatever

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 05 Dec 2007, 04:24

Do i have to explain to you 2 how to work out percentages?

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 05 Dec 2007, 05:45

verballistic wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Statistically speaking MMA is much safer than boxing, and bizarrely, professional wrestling
hard to tell really...there arent near as many worldwide MMA bouts per year as there are in boxing!!

so, for example---with 1 death already this year, then if there were 10 times as many boxing matches worldwide then 10 boxing deaths would be roughly equivalent to the one in MMA!!

That death was the first recorded fatality in MMAs 15yr or so history.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 05 Dec 2007, 05:47

verballistic wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Statistically speaking MMA is much safer than boxing, and bizarrely, professional wrestling
hard to tell really...there arent near as many worldwide MMA bouts per year as there are in boxing!!

so, for example---with 1 death already this year, then if there were 10 times as many boxing matches worldwide then 10 boxing deaths would be roughly equivalent to the one in MMA!!

That death was the first recorded fatality in MMAs 15yr or so history.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 05 Dec 2007, 05:47

verballistic wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Statistically speaking MMA is much safer than boxing, and bizarrely, professional wrestling
hard to tell really...there arent near as many worldwide MMA bouts per year as there are in boxing!!

so, for example---with 1 death already this year, then if there were 10 times as many boxing matches worldwide then 10 boxing deaths would be roughly equivalent to the one in MMA!!

That death was the first recorded fatality in MMAs 15yr or so history.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 05 Dec 2007, 05:47

verballistic wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Statistically speaking MMA is much safer than boxing, and bizarrely, professional wrestling
hard to tell really...there arent near as many worldwide MMA bouts per year as there are in boxing!!

so, for example---with 1 death already this year, then if there were 10 times as many boxing matches worldwide then 10 boxing deaths would be roughly equivalent to the one in MMA!!

That death was the first recorded fatality in MMAs 15yr or so history.

Tony Lumb · Post by **Tony Lumb** » 05 Dec 2007, 09:40

TerribleTerry wrote:
verballistic wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Statistically speaking MMA is much safer than boxing, and bizarrely, professional wrestling
hard to tell really...there arent near as many worldwide MMA bouts per year as there are in boxing!!

so, for example---with 1 death already this year, then if there were 10 times as many boxing matches worldwide then 10 boxing deaths would be roughly equivalent to the one in MMA!!
That death was the first recorded fatality in MMAs 15yr or so history.

And, although i realise i don't have specific details to hand, there have been medical studies which have shown that MMA fighters suffer more minor injuries (muscle tears, ligament damage, breakages) but boxing has far more serious head injuries.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 05 Dec 2007, 09:42

WildWaylon wrote:Come on pal if you do want to go off subject dont go knocking the working classes who live on council estates.

I'm a fan of the UFC which seems to have a little bit of class about it, but this "Cage Rage" - jesus wept - they must have pulled that crowd in by driving a pickup truck through a caravan park dragging a fiver along on a piece of rope.

I'm from a council estate originally myself, but that was when the majority of the working classes in this coutnry seemed like decent hard working people, as oppsoed to pissed up scum who take over the city centres every Friday and Saturday night causing trouble as they do now....

...anyway...enough sociological debate. I can't see Cage Rage having a much wider appeal to be honest. The UFC though is bound to continue to grow.