Boxing program to be cancelled at Northern Michigan

rickyraytaylor · Post by **rickyraytaylor** » 06 Nov 2007, 16:53

Dennis wrote:
JMac wrote:The word I hear is that NMU wanted to get rid of Al Mitchell and the USOC wanted the money to go to the resident boxing program at the OTC in the Colorado.
Probably part of the reason NMU wants Al out is that he is not an educator. He did not graduate HS and does not push academics. Most of the boxers only took a few credits each semester so they could concentrate on boxing but that would mean taking many years to get a degree but most of the boxers got bored living in Marquette and wanted to go home. That leaves a bad track record for the boxing program and how many get degrees.
There were quite a few boxers who got degrees or earned many credits towards a degree while in the program at NMU/USOEC. How does your above statement sound any different than most big time college athletics programs?

Actually Jmac hit it almost DIRECTLY on the head. i've heard plenty of rumblings of the OEC wanting to rid A Mitchell of his duties as well. Numerous reasons persist. I love the guy to death but it's true, he is NOT an educator. "Boxing A, Eductation B" College is difficult enough for the typical "booksmart" student; in accordance with HIGH level competitive athletic training at the Olympic level, it's almost impossible. Then hand the reigns to a person who's never been there academically and whats left is a balancing act between 2 worlds that become WAY off kilter.
Basically, graduating college takes an EXPRESSED level of discipline that very few people can relate to unless they've experienced it themselves.
Hustling to THE GARDEN during FINALS WEEK > in order to work the corner of a PROFESSIONAL BOXER probably wasn't the type of DISCIPLINE the OEC counted on keeping around anymore.
But hey, I could be wrong -

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 07 Nov 2007, 00:56

There are quite a few college coaches that put the sport way above the academics. It is the AD's job to reign in the coach. Now with the USOEC I'm not sure who if anyone played the AD's role. If Al Mitchell was given the dual, then he did fail. If not, someone else failed. There aren't too many guys like Barry Alvarez who can be the AD and Head Coach at the same time and do both well. However, even Barry decided it was too much.

I hope that the program continues. If they really think Al is a problem, then replace him or hire someone to act as AD and supervise Al.

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 07 Nov 2007, 09:28

The colleges that put sports above academics are big time universities with big time football and or basketball programs that bring in huge amounts of money. Boxing dosen't bring in a dime at NMU. I would bet that the graduation rate of boxers who entered the program vesus the athletes in the other OEC sports is night and day.
Nothing against the boxers. I am all for any education they can get but most of the boxers come from backgrounds where education was not pushed and most likely the other OEC athletes were involved mostly in winter sports where most of them come from more affluent backgrounds where education is more of a priority.
I would like to see the program continue as well. Larry Nicholson who went through the program (I think it took him something like 10 years to graduate) and has been assisting Al Mitchell the last few years has already accepted the position of coach at the new resident program at the OTC in Colorado. He'll probably start after the NMU program closes.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 07 Nov 2007, 10:05

I believe that Larry and Sarah have already moved to Colorado Springs (per conversation with him in Houston).

DeRae Crane · Post by **DeRae Crane** » 08 Nov 2007, 15:12

JMac and boxrec buddies,

Sup friends? As far as graduates go...Most of the athletes at the OEC take lighter course loads, so it takes ALL of the athletes longer than ususal to graduate. There is no "night and day" actually the boxing team has graduated the most athletes of any of the sports over the past few years. Considering that the "average joe" student takes five years to graduate, if an athlete at the OEC gets done in five that's pretty amazing. The boxing team does have a higher turn over rate. Boxing is the only sport at the OEC in which there is a professional level, many of the boxers at the OEC go off in pursuit of fortune and fame, amongst other things. Also, it is not uncommon for an athlete (basketball, football, hockey) to leave school early and pursue a professional career.)

As far as Al Mitchel not stressing education, last time I checked Al is not a baby sitter. Having been a member of the team for five years and captain for four of those years, as well as a maintaining a 3.2GPA and will graduate in May of '08 I know all too well that Al MAKES CERTAIN that we have everything we need to succeed. Our team alone has its own academic advisor available to us (he's the head of academic and career advisement) as well as our own assigned advisors. In the end it comes down to the athlete taking advantage of what they have in front of them. There have been PLENTY of times when Al shows up at an athlete's door and chews them out for not going to class, missing an advising appointment, or for not gettin help in a class.

If there is any reason they want to get rid of Al it's because he doesn't allow himself to be pushed around. The man may not be perfect, but he sticks up for his athletes and will raise hell if he feels any one of us has been wronged in any way.

Please, I welcome all replies :-) Have a nice day.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 09 Nov 2007, 02:17

Thanks for your input, DeRae. I personally think the program is very worth while and needed. Over the years I've been around, I have seen many boxers graduate or get certificates in fields that would allow them to be successful. This is the only program in the US that allows a boxer to box and get an education at the same time. For every "failure," there is double the success rate. I talked to Dave Lubs tonight and he and Tracy are doing what they can to not let the program end.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 09 Nov 2007, 10:54

Thanks for the comments DeRae. It is clear that you would know more than most since you have been at the USOEC for your whole college career. Congrats on your upcoming graduation.
How is your nose? I heard that your nose was broken and it was a career ending injury. Any truth to the rumor? At least you were smart and took advantage of the opportunity you were given at NMU. I hope you continue to tell everyone that the program is worthwhile. I do not want to see the program end.

DeRae Crane · Post by **DeRae Crane** » 09 Nov 2007, 12:15

Thank you and thanks for your concern. Though it wasn't career ending, the broken heart I suffered after everything I put in to boxing was about the only reason I would no longer box. (I haven't been home in two years, I've been up here in Marquette training non-stop (Christmases, Thanksgivings, New Years, and two summers, etc)) The specialist I saw said I could continue to box with no problems.

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 09 Nov 2007, 13:19

DeRae,
I stand corrected on several things you said. Thanks for your input. There is nothing like hearing the information from someone who is there. I would love to see the program continue as I have helped get a boxer in the program many years ago and though he did not graduate, I know it was good for him to be there.
Congrats on graduating in May and good luck in whatever you pursue.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 09 Nov 2007, 20:33

Dave Lubs, Jose Villarreal, Luis Gomez and Vernon Forrest all spoke to every meeting today about the importance of keeping NMU. I will have information on my web site Monday with a link to who you can email at NMU and voice your support. Please do so.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 09 Nov 2007, 23:00

DeRae - glad to hear that you are OK. I understand the heartbreak. Boxing does have its ups and downs. You can have some extreme emotional swings. It can be just as hard for the coaches - especially if you are close to your boxer. Watching my son lose by 1 point at the US Championships was difficult. So I know about heartbreak.

I hope with your success at NMU you can become a spokesperson for the program and help save it.

rickyraytaylor · Post by **rickyraytaylor** » 27 Nov 2007, 08:38

Dennis wrote:Ricky - I can understand how a bunch of bored boxers cooped up together could be a major problem.

You graduated from the program and yet seem to be quite critical of it. If you didn't like it, why didn't you go back home and attend the school you had been attending prior to NMU? You stated that you already had 2 years under your belt.

Many universities have a revolving door, especially for the Freshmen and Sophomores. Many young people struggle with college, not just boxers.

======================
YOU GOTTA REMEMBER -
--THAT I was attending NMU on scholarship. Go with me bro, that was the ONLY reason that I was up there and the ONLY way that I could continue with college after my first two years at home. My dad was 100% DAV and my first 2 years of college were fully paid. So, the scholarship came with perfect timing regarding school - it arrived a year or so "after" I'd peaked in the ring though.
More reasons that I didn't "just go home" were the underlying currents of UNDERSTANDING the opportunity that I'd earned (through 10+ years of hard work), WANTING to hang tough & KNOWING that I was a competitive CHAMPION who persevered.
My apologies for sounding so critical of the OEC. My criticism lies only in the fact that I felt the importance of -training- BLATANTLY outweighed
-education-.
THIS was beaten into my head by a coach who knew only training & had no clue of what it was like to be a SENIOR in COLLEGE.
I can honestly say that AL really meant no harm in what he was doing. Though he plays favorites, we all do to some extent. He doesn't favor anyone because of their RACE or their BOOKSMARTS. He favors the athletes on their Boxing ability - and I've come to understand that THAT was why he was there in the first place. In all, Al Mitchell is an overall good guy & sincere about Boxing. The program should stay.
And your final statement of "many people struggle with college, not just boxers" - - all I can say is that I've developed BOATLOADS of respect for single-mothers, raising a few kids WHILE graduating college. In her case it's "kids/A - education/B". If ONE area is ignored, it crashes and burns and at some point they EACH must be equally attended. Too much time with the kids, she fails. Too much time in the books may endanger the kids.
In the OEC - Too much time in the gym & not enough time studying, you fail and go home. Too much time studying & not enough emphasis on your training, you LOSE and go home.
(The HEAVY load of both areas moves WAY beyond what a "typical" college kid endures.)

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 27 Nov 2007, 12:02

boxmel wrote:Dave Lubs, Jose Villarreal, Luis Gomez and Vernon Forrest all spoke to every meeting today about the importance of keeping NMU. I will have information on my web site Monday with a link to who you can email at NMU and voice your support. Please do so.

Mel - can you post those email addresses. Maybe we can start inundating NMU with e-mails supporting the program.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 27 Nov 2007, 12:06

Ricky - your comments would be applicable for most big time college sports. Many athletes complain that they have to spend so much time "training" for their sports. Don't forget that the sport is paying for the education. Try working at a typical job and earn enough money to pay for tuition, room & board, books and fees. It won't happen. I understand your criticisms, but I think those are minor flaws that can be fixed. The program should NOT be cancelled.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 27 Nov 2007, 14:49

Mel - can you post those email addresses. Maybe we can start inundating NMU with e-mails supporting the program.

I never got them; maybe Dave Lubs doesn't feel it's important any more. I'll email him again.

rickyraytaylor · Post by **rickyraytaylor** » 28 Nov 2007, 01:53

Dennis wrote:Ricky - your comments would be applicable for most big time college sports. Many athletes complain that they have to spend so much time "training" for their sports. Don't forget that the sport is paying for the education. Try working at a typical job and earn enough money to pay for tuition, room & board, books and fees. It won't happen. I understand your criticisms, but I think those are minor flaws that can be fixed. The program should NOT be cancelled.

Hey Dennis - GOOD idea to start flooding the powers that be with emails to support the program.

-- Please don't think that I'm full of "criticisms" about my Alma Mater.
I love those guys up there and as I'd already stated - I think the program should STAY!

*First of all, my hats off to Derae Crane for keeping such a high GPA while keeping his head above water enough to graduate. Congrats my brother!

When comparing the trials, ordeals and issues that NMU Boxers have to contend - to what OTHER college athletes must face, there is one intangible that drips hard and heavy. Many college football players (for instance) are following their fathers or grandfathers or uncles footsteps, more often than not - even attending the SAME school. The dye had been cast & not only had the outcome been EXPECTED, but in their minds at the time - it couldn't even be altered. College is expected. It's understood from 1st grade that the path through school is the firmament supporting a successful COLLEGE Degree.

I would assume that WELL over 90% of the BOXERS in the NMU program however, came from a polar opposite molding. Boxings recruitment pool has traditionally been based out of the inner-city collection of neighborhood tough kids who hadn't the money OR the tradition of attending college. Typically, no family member had ever been on the "college" path NOR had their friends OR associates OR even their enemies. College exists in another universe from ANYTHING that they'd ever known before and trust me, Marquette, MI is MUCH closer to Mayberry than it is Spanish Harlem. This all plays a big role in the "revolving door" in Marquette which I'd already spoken about.

*Nearly ALL of the NMU fighters who were granted College Scholarships had to create an entirely NEW mold in their generation, which is never an easy task.

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 28 Nov 2007, 13:07

Take a look at the stats at the bottom and you'll see how important this program is. I have spent many years going to the JOs at NMU and have first-hand knowledge of what the program offers and what it has done for many of our boxers. It is unique and one of a kind and I don't believe that any other substitute can provide what NMU has to offer. Below are email addresses. Please let Les Wong and Jim Millman know that you support the program and want it to remain available to our athletes.

The below information was given to me by Dave Lubs and are his words:

Addresses where letters can be sent are:

NMU President Les Wong: [email protected]
Executive Director USA Boxing Jim Millman: [email protected]

There are two dreams expressed by many amateur boxers throughout the U.S. The first being an Olympian and representing the U.S. in the Olympic Games and the second is the opportunity to attend NMU through the USOEC/NMU program and complete a college degree.

We can not allow this program to end.

This program has a rich history in athlete development and educational
accomplishment.

OLYMPIANS: 9

1992 - Vernon Forrest (139)

1996 - Zahir Raheem (119)

1996 - David Reid (156) (Gold)

1996 - Lawrence Clay-Bay

2000 - Brian Viloria (106)

2000 - Clarence Vinson (119) (Bronze)

2000 - David Jackson (132)

2000 - Jermain Taylor (156) (Bronze)

2004 - Roberto Benitez (119)

WORLD CHAMPION: 2

1992 - Vernon Forrest (139)

1999 - Brian Viloria (106)

US NATIONAL CHAMPION: 24
1991 - Vernon Forrest (139)
1993 - Abayomi Miller (132)
1994 - David Reid (147)
1996 - David Reid (147) Anthony Stewart (178) DaVarryl Williamson (201)
1997 - Clarence Vinson (112) David Jackson (132) Le Chaunce Shephard (147)
Anthony Stewart (178) DaVarryl Williamson (201)
1998 - Clarence Vinson 112 DaVarryl Williamson (201) Dominick Guinn (201+)
1999 - Brian Viloria (106) Roberto Benitez (112) Clarence Vinson (119) Malik
Scott (201)
2000 - Roberto Benitez (112) LeChaunce Shephard) (147)
2001 - Roberto Benitez (119) Sechew Powell (156)
2003 - Samson Guillermo (119)
2004 - Roberto Benitez (119)

NATIONAL GOLDEN GLOVES
16 Athletes are Golden Gloves National Champions

NATIONAL PAL
7 Athletes are National PAL Champions

UNDER 19
8 Athletes are Under 19 National Champions

COMPLETED DEGREES:

6 Vocational
1 Associate
11 Under Graduate with 3 more graduating in 2008
8 Masters with 1 more graduating in 2008
21 Athletes turned Professional after 2 years of college.
24 Athletes completed High School
1 Athlete received his GED
40 Athletes left the program after 6 or less semesters of college and
it is not known how many of them continued their education.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 29 Nov 2007, 01:08

Ricky - yes being the first college student from a family can be more difficult. Then again the opposite can be difficult too since the higher expectation can put a lot of stress on a young person.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 29 Nov 2007, 01:09

Thanks Mel - good info.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 04 Dec 2007, 15:47

I e-mailed Les Wong and he responded back saying that they are still working on the issue with the governing body (USA Boxing) and the foundation to find a solution. They are still trying to save the program.

rickyraytaylor · Post by **rickyraytaylor** » 05 Dec 2007, 02:12

Dennis wrote:I e-mailed Les Wong and he responded back saying that they are still working on the issue with the governing body (USA Boxing) and the foundation to find a solution. They are still trying to save the program.

NICE! It's good to hear that the wheels are still chugging!!

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 05 Dec 2007, 10:16

Ricky - have you emailed your support yet?

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » 06 Dec 2007, 02:33

Everyone should voice their support.

rickyraytaylor · Post by **rickyraytaylor** » 06 Dec 2007, 22:31

boxmel wrote:Ricky - have you emailed your support yet?

putting finishing touches on it - will mail it tomorrow.
thanks again for the email address and thanks especially for helping the "surge"!

boxmel · Post by **boxmel** » 06 Dec 2007, 22:45

putting finishing touches on it - will mail it tomorrow.

Great - I knew you would.

thanks again for the email address and thanks especially for helping the "surge"!

Actually, all the info is thanks to Dave Lubs. But I love Marquette - one of the few, I guess.