HOPKINS A RACIST?

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 07 Dec 2007, 18:53

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7133862.stm

Always been a big B-Hop fan, but his comment to Calzaghe in Vegas that he'd "never lose to a white man" is poor, poor form.
The reaction to date has been somewhat muted... can you imagine if it had been the other way round and Calzaghe had "done a Minter"? Suspect the 'fall-out' would have been far greater somehow

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 07 Dec 2007, 18:59

If he calls Joe a slapper he will go down.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 07 Dec 2007, 18:59

Max Molyneux wrote:If he calls Joe a slapper he will go down.

Hasn't happened with any of the past [...] guys

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:00

Max Molyneux wrote:If he calls Joe a slapper he will go down.

On Joe?

:(

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:05

pundit wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:If he calls Joe a slapper he will go down.
Hasn't happened with any of the past [...] guys

He whooped them though either way.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:07

Deserter wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7133862.stm

Always been a big B-Hop fan, but his comment to Calzaghe in Vegas that he'd "never lose to a white man" is poor, poor form.
The reaction to date has been somewhat muted... can you imagine if it had been the other way round and Calzaghe had "done a Minter"? Suspect the 'fall-out' would have been far greater somehow

Completely agree with the post.

Hopkins is well out of line!!!

Can't believe it - but I am becoming a fan of Calzaghe - I hope he whoops Hopkins arse!!!

jammidodger · Post by **jammidodger** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:16

so is this fight actually happening now??

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:32

Can you imagine the absolute outrage if Joe had said "I'm never gonna lose to a black bloke", they'd take his bloody license away!

johnty1888 · Post by **johnty1888** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:45

Calzaghe has too much class to say such a blatantly racist remark

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:47

jeej wrote:Can you imagine the absolute outrage if Joe had said "I'm never gonna lose to a black bloke", they'd take his bloody license away!

Would they really take his license away?

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:48

jeej wrote:Can you imagine the absolute outrage if Joe had said "I'm never gonna lose to a black bloke", they'd take his bloody license away!

Well, he never has lost to a black man, not as a pro, anyway.

Nor has Hopkins lost to a white bloke as a pro.

I think its called ticket sales. The promotional machine seems to have started rolling.

Hopkins a racist? Not on that comment. Just a good publicist. Crude, but good nonetheless.

Be nice if we could get as an accomplished a fighter as him in the UK, but it seems he wont travel.

Calzaghe wins the fight comfortably imo.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:52

well he isn't a racist white people not being an oppressed race (although you could possibly claim the wealsh are ;)) He was just hyping in the hope he can get the fight made on his terms.

Lets get it on.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 07 Dec 2007, 19:55

josh fg wrote:well he isn't a racist white people not being an oppressed race

What are you on about?

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:03

Yeah ok, so I agree that it was just to hype a potential fight, but I still feel he overstepped the mark, where do you draw the line?

Can Joe say "I'm gonna f*ck your five year old in the arse" and then expect people to say "oh that was fine, just pre fight hype and banter"?

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:07

Horse wrote:
josh fg wrote:well he isn't a racist white people not being an oppressed race
What are you on about?

well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:09

Yeah just water off a duck's back.

I would like to see the day when the opposite remark is taken the same way. The race laws institutionalise racist separation on the statute books - by presenting a grey area of what is acceptable or not - thus leading everyone into a state of paranoia. For me, I treat everyone as I find them - I can say something that might be construed as racist (in the public domain) but can get away with it one on one with more trusty people. As second generation Irish I could scream racism over jokes and jibes, but have ended up laughing my head off and gave a little back even though I was most clearly in the minority.

As for Hopkins, he's trying to be controversial. At the end of the day he knows he wont lose to the white man - because he is unlikely to face him.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:10

josh fg wrote:
Horse wrote:
josh fg wrote:well he isn't a racist white people not being an oppressed race
What are you on about?
well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.

Doesn't make It alright for them to stoop to that level.

Since when was Hopkins persecuted anyway?

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:11

Max Molyneux wrote:
josh fg wrote:
Horse wrote: What are you on about?
well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.
Doesn't make It alright for them to stoop to that level.

Since when was Hopkins persecuted anyway?

Im saying its different I think its a bone headed thing to say but I wouldn't call it racist.

rasputin · Post by **rasputin** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:37

josh fg wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
josh fg wrote: well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.
Doesn't make It alright for them to stoop to that level.

Since when was Hopkins persecuted anyway?
Im saying its different I think its a bone headed thing to say but I wouldn't call it racist.

Maybe you wouldnt call it racist but if it was the other way
round millions would! There seems to be no middle
ground unfortunately

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:41

josh fg wrote:
Horse wrote:
josh fg wrote:well he isn't a racist white people not being an oppressed race
What are you on about?
well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.

What have power dynamics got to do with it? A white person can be racist but a black man can't? What a load of bollocks. Can a black man be racist to white people in a majority black country? Or is that just prejudice as well?

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:41

rasputin wrote:
josh fg wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote: Doesn't make It alright for them to stoop to that level.

Since when was Hopkins persecuted anyway?
Im saying its different I think its a bone headed thing to say but I wouldn't call it racist.
Maybe you wouldnt call it racist but if it was the other way
round millions would! There seems to be no middle
ground unfortunately

Well if it was the other way around it probably would be racist (depending again on context) ether way its a stupid thing to say.

The middle ground is to say that Hopkin's is a prick but not a racist!

rasputin · Post by **rasputin** » 07 Dec 2007, 20:46

josh fg wrote:
rasputin wrote:
josh fg wrote: Im saying its different I think its a bone headed thing to say but I wouldn't call it racist.
Maybe you wouldnt call it racist but if it was the other way
round millions would! There seems to be no middle
ground unfortunately
Well if it was the other way around it probably would be racist (depending again on context) ether way its a stupid thing to say.

The middle ground is to say that Hopkin's is a prick but not a racist!

I agree a prick he is but my point is if it was
the other way round joe would be lynched by
public and press for his outrageous racist comments!
So why not bernard?

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 07 Dec 2007, 21:01

josh fg wrote:
Horse wrote:
josh fg wrote:well he isn't a racist white people not being an oppressed race
What are you on about?
well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.

Sorry Josh, but No, No, No.

This is the definition of racist:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

It does not mention about who has oppressed who, or power dynamics.

That really is end of subject but also, lets take your example...... Blacks have been oppressed by whites and any subsequent comment a white person may make is rightfully deemed racist and objected to, (and I believe should be subject to punsihment).

Given that they are corectly and vehemently objected to, how can any sane person saying the opposite, (i.e. similar comment towards white people), not be deemed a racist. It is fine to complain about a behaviour, but not if you do it yourself or condone others.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Dec 2007, 21:02

rasputin wrote:
josh fg wrote:
rasputin wrote: Maybe you wouldnt call it racist but if it was the other way
round millions would! There seems to be no middle
ground unfortunately
Well if it was the other way around it probably would be racist (depending again on context) ether way its a stupid thing to say.

The middle ground is to say that Hopkin's is a prick but not a racist!
I agree a prick he is but my point is if it was
the other way round joe would be lynched by
public and press for his outrageous racist comments!
So why not bernard?

Okay but white people do have a better economic situation fairer treatment by the police better schooling and are less likely to get murdered and are grossly praportionaly over represented in the represntitive bodies (I.E parliament or senet) both in this country in the USA, I think most black people would give up the moral high grownd for eqaulity.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Dec 2007, 21:04

Maelstrom wrote:
josh fg wrote:
Horse wrote: What are you on about?
well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.
Sorry Josh, but No, No, No.

This is the definition of racist:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

It does not mention about who has oppressed who, or power dynamics.

That really is end of subject but also, lets take your example...... Blacks have been oppressed by whites and any subsequent comment a white person may make is rightfully deemed racist and objected to, (and I believe should be subject to punsihment).

Given that they are corectly and vehemently objected to, how can any sane person saying the opposite, (i.e. similar comment towards white people), not be deemed a racist. It is fine to complain about a behaviour, but not if you do it yourself or condone others.

Honnestly there have been books writen about the defenition of racism many of which due to my old job I read. The etimology of the word is from Trotsky who certainly saw it as based in a power dynamic.

HOPKINS A RACIST?

HOPKINS A RACIST?

Re: HOPKINS A RACIST?