Paul Ingle

[jamesmcdonnell]

I have kind of lost track of Paul Ingle, I know he was on the road to recovery from his injuries, does anyone know how he is doing now, did he make a full recovery from his injuries?

[REAL_DEAL]

Dont think so

found this article good article when ingle was fighitng

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/20 ... page_4.htm

[bennie]

I have kind of lost track of Paul Ingle, I know he was on the road to recovery from his injuries, does anyone know how he is doing now, did he make a full recovery from his injuries?

Not a full recovery. He slurs his words a bit, though at least he can walk around okay. It's easy to be wise in hindsight, but I really felt Paul should have been spared the 12th and final round against Botile in December 2000. He had been hurt early in the fight, floored in the 11th - and was miles behind on points. There was no need to send him out for the 12th. Steve Pollard and Frank Maloney managed to avoid any criticism after the fight, mainly because Paul survived. But they should have been slaughtered.

[stujones]

I agree with Bennie, but its always a tough one - hindsight is a wonderful thing. I've often cursed Gardiner concerning Owen, but it was all the boy lived for and he did deserve to hear the final bell - had Ingle been stopped prior to the 12th and been okay perhaps he might never worked with Pollard and Maloney again. Lets not forget, Ingle was the champion and had championship honour, also the judges may have seen a completely different fight to us.

Look what happend with Gomez and Hughes when Bryan did the compasionate thing. Compare that with Barnes vs Vincent, when Hughes was close to doing the compasionate thing there (Barnes "won").

[steve689]

Yeah i remember Botile looked good that night, didn't he go on to look totally ordinary by Frankie Toledo? I hoped Paul had recovered fully but it appears not so, the sport can offer many riches but also a big price to pay in return on occasions.

[stujones]

Yeah i remember Botile looked good that night, didn't he go on to look totally ordinary by Frankie Toledo? I hoped Paul had recovered fully but it appears not so, the sport can offer many riches but also a big price to pay in return on occasions.

Yes, Botile was a good fighter, but it might have been more psychological his defeat against Toledo, who wasn't the best ever champion.

As for Paul now, there is always hope injuries usually with such an injury the person's recovery is still on going - he might still get better. Gerald McLennan is still poorly, but compared to a few years ago he's alot better. Paul could still come through.

[Deserter]

Hi James,
When I was back in the UK for Christmas I picked up "Fighting Chance" by Derick Allsop. Although it primarily focuses on the Manchester fight scene there are some heartbreaking scenes regarding Ingle. At the time of writing (I'd guess around early 2003), he was living with his devoted mum in Scarborough after his girlfriend left him, and you get the impression he's finding it incredibly difficult to adjust to the fact he can never fight again. He talks about his physical difficulties but also his desire to get involved in training.
Has anyone else read this book and if so what did they think?

[MightyWarrior]

To be honest, you didn't need hindsight to see Paul was taking a prolonged, unnecessary beating that night. I felt sick watching him take repeated head shots for round after round. There was no way back for him, and his corner seriously let him down.

I said the same thing on another forum on the night of the fight, but was shouted down by others who went on about how much his trainer loved him etc.. but where was the compassion for his fighter when it was needed?

[Lugh]

Good article about him in last months Observer Sports Monthly.

Poor taste I am sure but I never liked the bloke one bit - as a fighter or an individual.

I remember hearing, when he was on the way up that he was a bit of a booze-hound between fights and was not the most consistent of trainers.

Was the implication that he had too much weight to make for the Botile fight?

[Hardhitters11]

Fighters are allowed to fight on far to long in a lot of circumstances these days.

I have seen so many fights where I have been screaming at the tv to stop it only to see one fighter bludgeoned to the ground.

Then on other occasions referees are howled at for stopping it prematurely.

There is no real way to avoid this as its all about an individuals perception.

If I was a trainer personally I would rather have the fighter stopped early than risk my fighter getting a needless beating.

HH

[Hardhitters11]

As an added note I always enjoyed watching Ingle but felt that he did exceptionally well with the skills he had.

HH

[Deserter]

Good article about him in last months Observer Sports Monthly.

Poor taste I am sure but I never liked the bloke one bit - as a fighter or an individual.

I remember hearing, when he was on the way up that he was a bit of a booze-hound between fights and was not the most consistent of trainers.

Was the implication that he had too much weight to make for the Botile fight?

The book also hints that his lifestyle was questionable - I think Frank Maloney is quoted as saying that he needed to get out of Scarborough and into a training camp before fights as it wasn't doing him any favours.

[Lugh]

The key point (IMO) is that fighters (By definition) are the least able rationally pull themselves out of a fight.

The phrase "protected from their own bravery" says it best.

Personally I believe the trainer is THE ONLY person to pull a fighter out - the ref barely knows them and has other responsibilities, the fighter is (obvioiusly) otherwise engaged.

Sometimes there is almost a criminal negligence amongst trainers for their responsibility to their charges.

[Lugh]

Good article about him in last months Observer Sports Monthly.

Poor taste I am sure but I never liked the bloke one bit - as a fighter or an individual.

I remember hearing, when he was on the way up that he was a bit of a booze-hound between fights and was not the most consistent of trainers.

Was the implication that he had too much weight to make for the Botile fight?

The book also hints that his lifestyle was questionable - I think Frank Maloney is quoted as saying that he needed to get out of Scarborough and into a training camp before fights as it wasn't doing him any favours.

I can remember them laughing about it on Ringside!!?? Showing him downing a pint in one and grinning.

Sad in retrospect.

[Loynesy]

Steve

I was at the Botile - Toledo fight (it was in Vegas the night before Naz v Barrera). It was a bit of a controversial decision, I had Botile winning by a couple of rounds but it was a strange fight - Botile started off on fire and had Toledo in all sorts of trouble but took his foot off the gas and allowed Frankie to get back into the fight - may be that the Ingle fight was on his mind or more simply, he ran out of gas.

The fight was about half an hour off the strip and there were no cabs anywhere. I managed to bribe a guy in a minibus to drive me back into Vegas and gave a lift to most of Britain's boxing journalists, Panos and his wife. The bus was packed and I had the slightly sureal experience of driving back to Vegas with Bettina Palle (Danish promoter) sitting on my lap....

[steve689]

Lol, great story Loynesy. It's weird because i have never seen the Toledo-Botile but all i remember is Ian Darke remarking about it a while ago briefly while commentating on another fight. He said something along the lines of "Frankie Toledo made Botile look so flat footed and one dimensional" so i was curious.

[bennie]

Ingle blew-up in between fights for sure, but a lot of fighters do (Duran, Hatton, even Ali), and there was no doubting his fitness come fight nights. His punch rate and stamina were phenomenal, and he very nearly outlasted Naz. The way he outpunched Colin McMillan at York Hall in 1997 to win the British featherweight title was simply breathtaking. Dynamite Dean Phillips will know all about McMillan's ability (conceding an eight-rounder to Colin in 1995, though Dean dropped the former world champion), and for Ingle to literally punch McMillan to a standstill was a truly undervalued performance. I always liked Paul Ingle. He was all fighter. Too brave for his own good.

[stujones]

[quote="bennie"]Ingle blew-up in between fights for sure, but a lot of fighters do (Duran, Hatton, even Ali),[quote]

Yes, but Ingles was a bit extreme, there were rumours that he used to blow up to near 12 stone (Steve Pollard used to say that). Also, I remember a Ringside special which kind of investigated the fight, Frank Maloney stated that Paul would demand that he would have 12 weeks notice to prepare for a fight. Maloney also stated that Ingle had little sparring for the Botile fight because he had to focus almost exclusively on losing the pounds.

No doubt he was one of the fittest fighters this country ever hard, but was hardly a proffesional in the gaps between the fights. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I do believe that is more than part of the reason as to why it happend to him.

[Dynamite Dean Phillips]

For 8 rounds I caught McMillan with all kinds of shots; jabs, hooks, uppercuts; you name it. He was as tough as old boots. I remember trapping him against the ropes for 30 seconds at a time just winghing in shots from all angles.

I had him down in the first with a straight right; the bell saved him. I was on the verge of stopping him in the 3rd, 5th and 8th, but credit to him, he was still there and saw the final bell. One of the worst decisions ever though..when the ref raised his hand, McMillan's own home town supporters booed it loudly. Kinda said it all.

Ingle did extremely well to stop him.

[Kilburn]

I'd hate to sound like a know-all but I remember watching Ingle's "I've come with two belts an' I'm goin' home with two" interview in the dressing room before the fight with Botile and thinking shit this lad looks ill. Seriously bloody weight drained. And he had a real look of nervousness, like he knew he wasn't fit to fight anything like his best fight.

It wasn't even as though Botile did anything special, he was just big and strong and comfortable at the weight. For Ingle not to have a single good moment in 11 rounds tells you that his troubles must have started well before the first bell rang.

[Kilburn]

I never liked the bloke one bit - as a fighter or an individual.

Lugh didn't you enjoy his victory over Junior Jones? For me that's right up there as one of the great British performances. Okay Jones was slipping BUT he still nailed Ingle with a carbon copy of the right hand that he'd drilled Barrera with. Instead of faltering in his first fight away from home Ingle gets up, weathers the storm and batters the guy into submission a couple of rounds later.

Bloody awsome. I nearly had to be scraped off the ceiling that night.

[jamesmcdonnell]

There is definite medical evidence to support the claims that being weight drained and dehydrated increases the risk of brain injury.

For one thing statistically heavyweights almost never sustain brain injuries whilst actually in the ring, it's very rare indeed, and I think I am right in saying there hasn't been a death in the ring of a heavyweight in the last 50 years.

Apparently, from what I've read on the matter, the fluids which surround the brain get reapsorbed to an extent when the body gets dehydrated, and even the tissues of the brain itself, which is extremely watery can contract. This means that not only does the brain have less fluid to cushion it, but because the brain has contracted, it doesn't fit quite as snugly into the cranium, making the liklihood of a small tear in the blood vessells surrounding the brain far more likely when the skull is jarred.

[Goz]

I never liked the bloke one bit - as a fighter or an individual.

Lugh didn't you enjoy his victory over Junior Jones? For me that's right up there as one of the great British performances. Okay Jones was slipping BUT he still nailed Ingle with a carbon copy of the right hand that he'd drilled Barrera with. Instead of faltering in his first fight away from home Ingle gets up, weathers the storm and batters the guy into submission a couple of rounds later.

Bloody awsome. I nearly had to be scraped off the ceiling that night.

That was a great night, on the undercard of Lewis-Grant wasn't it?

[bennie]

True, Kilburn. Weightmaking is behind virtually every ring fatality in boxing history. We only have to look at how few heavyweights have collapsed and died in the later rounds of a fight to know that a combination of weightmaking and exhaustion is a potentially lethal one if a big punch lands.
On November 13th, 1982, Korean lightweight Duk-Koo Kim died four days after he was knocked out in the 14th round by Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini. Within four months of his death, Kim's mother, as well as the referee of the fight, Richard Greene, both committed suicide.
As a result of Kim's death, the WBC immediately ordered all their world title fights to be reduced from 15 to 12 rounds, and the other governing bodies eventually followed suit.
However, less than a year later, Alberto Davila, down two points on one judge's card, five on the other (the third judge had it even), threw everything he had in the 12th and final round and dropped Francisco (Kiko) Bejines. Bejines' head struck the middle rope as he landed (shades of Michael Watson against Eubank and Davey Moore against Sugar Ramos). Bejines attempted to rise (he was counted out) but fell backwards to the canvas. After an emergency operation to relieve pressure form his brain, Bejines died three days after the fight.
So even in 12-rounders, deaths occur.
Steve Holdsworth is continually campaigning for the lesser championship fights to be reduced to 10 rounds in his commentary on Eurosport, and I agree with him. I would also go further. Make all the crappy championship fights (and by crappy, I include the WBO and the WBU) 10-rounders and the genuine 'world' title fights (IBF, WBC and WBA), 15-rounders. It's the only way to sort out this current world title confusion and sort out the real champs from the paper ones.

[Dynamite Dean Phillips]

Weight problems are an ongoing problem in professional boxing; it is a serious issue that needs to be eradicated for the safety of the fighters and for the future of the sport.

My theory (as a professional fighter who has had experience with weight issues), is that the vast majority of today's Featherweights are natural Lightweights, and todays Lightweights are natural Light-Welterweights and so on. Fighters should fight at their natural weight i.e. whatever weight they are without having to starve themselves or refrain from consuming liquids just to get those extra couple of pounds off....... You don't hear of Heavyweights sustaining these kinds of injuries in the ring. This is because they don't have to struggle to get the pounds off. In the second stint of my professional career, I am making sure that my weight hovers around near my fighting weight all year round i.e if I am fighting at 9 stone 9 pounds, I train and live not more than 10 stone year round; coming down to 9 st 11 pounds a week before; this enables me to comfortably make the 9st 9lbs limit on fight night without having to starve myself or dry out. A rule of thumb is to not let your weight go 5% above your total body weight.

Each weight category below Heavyweight should be looked at and boxer's weights monitored meticulously throughout training by appointed governing body officials; it's no use to just have a rule saying that trainers have to monitor the boxers' weights, like they have done. In reality, this just isn't practised; all this rule does is cover the governing body's own back if and when accidents happen in the ring. They have already started monitoring weights some weeks prior to some championship contests; this activity should be done with all fighters for all professional contests.

Another issue that needs to be looked at is the issue with the very strong television camera lights glaring onto the ring. This issue is often overlooked. These cameras make the ring extremely hot, and are a thorn in the side for fighters fighting 10 or 12 rounders. Frank Maloney suggested having fans installed on the cameras so as to make the ring cooler.......excellent suggestion, so why the hell hasn't it been done yet?.....to the average fight fan sitting at ringside, these changes may not mean a whole lot, but can mean the difference between life and death for a fighter.