Joe Cortez is a....

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 09 Dec 2007, 01:02

Nobber!!! What is he doing??? He's breaking the action up everytime they get in close!!

ARRGH!!!

Razor · Post by **Razor** » 09 Dec 2007, 01:37

That point deduction lost Ricky the fight, after all that pressure Billy Graham had to tell him he was a point down going into the 9th. fornicating sick...

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 09 Dec 2007, 01:47

Razor wrote:That point deduction lost Ricky the fight, after all that pressure Billy Graham had to tell him he was a point down going into the 9th. effing sick...

The discrediting starts...

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 09 Dec 2007, 01:58

No point in blaming anything or anyone.

For Me Ricky lost fair and square - yeah okay the Ref could have let the fight flow a bit - but you know what I remain convinced if he did - Mayweather would have won anyhow.

Hatton and Mayweather are class boxers - the better man won - leave it there.

King Tubby · Post by **King Tubby** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:16

Spud wrote:No point in blaming anything or anyone.

For Me Ricky lost fair and square - yeah okay the Ref could have let the fight flow a bit - but you know what I remain convinced if he did - Mayweather would have won anyhow.

Hatton and Mayweather are class boxers - the better man won - leave it there.

And so say all of us.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:21

Cortez should be suspended. His performance was a disgrace.

MecnunK · Post by **MecnunK** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:25

Ricky lost fair and square..was in the game first 4 rounds but couldnt take advantage, I thought PBF looked nervy at start whereas Ricky seemed too fired up...but such was teh occasion and the moment.. cant blame him..he gave his all but I dont think he was at his best tonight..

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:27

MecnunK wrote:Ricky lost fair and square..was in the game first 4 rounds but couldnt take advantage, I thought PBF looked nervy at start whereas Ricky seemed too fired up...but such was teh occasion and the moment.. cant blame him..he gave his all but I dont think he was at his best tonight..

What has that got to do with Cortez?

MecnunK · Post by **MecnunK** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:32

Horse wrote:
MecnunK wrote:Ricky lost fair and square..was in the game first 4 rounds but couldnt take advantage, I thought PBF looked nervy at start whereas Ricky seemed too fired up...but such was teh occasion and the moment.. cant blame him..he gave his all but I dont think he was at his best tonight..
What has that got to do with Cortez?

a subtle way of saying cortez wasnt to blame for ricky's loss.

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:32

Horse wrote:
MecnunK wrote:Ricky lost fair and square..was in the game first 4 rounds but couldnt take advantage, I thought PBF looked nervy at start whereas Ricky seemed too fired up...but such was teh occasion and the moment.. cant blame him..he gave his all but I dont think he was at his best tonight..
What has that got to do with Cortez?

He's saying that Cortez did not affect the end result, and I agree.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:37

Asterix wrote:
Horse wrote:
MecnunK wrote:Ricky lost fair and square..was in the game first 4 rounds but couldnt take advantage, I thought PBF looked nervy at start whereas Ricky seemed too fired up...but such was teh occasion and the moment.. cant blame him..he gave his all but I dont think he was at his best tonight..
What has that got to do with Cortez?
He's saying that Cortez did not affect the end result, and I agree.

Of course he did.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:39

Whats the technical rule for clinching? A break, he just broke them quick, BUT he did break when there werent any clinching, which was wrong.

The point deduction may seem bad BUT IT PROBABLY LOOKED BAD FROM HIS POSITION

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:40

Cortez reffed the fight just fine. A half pissed Darke and Watt criticised him every step for not reffing the fight like Mickey fornicating Vann would've. He was fair but firm just like his motto, if Mayweather got Hatton in a headlock he broke them apart, it wasn't one way. He made it as clean a fight as he could, if you want to watch wrestling, dig out the betamax tapes of Shirley Crabtree.
Mayweather won fair and square.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:41

The ref didn't hinder Hatton's defence.

Nuff said.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:41

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Whats the technical rule for clinching? A break, he just broke them quick, BUT he did break when there werent any clinching, which was wrong.

The point deduction may seem bad BUT IT PROBABLY LOOKED BAD FROM HIS POSITION

Didn't Floyd punch Ricky in the back of the head in the first or second round?

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 09 Dec 2007, 02:44

Horse wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Whats the technical rule for clinching? A break, he just broke them quick, BUT he did break when there werent any clinching, which was wrong.

The point deduction may seem bad BUT IT PROBABLY LOOKED BAD FROM HIS POSITION
Didn't Floyd punch Ricky in the back of the head in the first or second round?

Yes he did and he shoulda been docked if its an eye for an eye HOWEVER RICKYS LOOKED A WORSE FOUL - I know it didnt land but Cortez didnt see that

Cortez also docked a point from Castillo for hitting Hatton on the beltline after he said the beltline was OK. In fairness its hard to ref in the heat of the moment

banjo · Post by **banjo** » 09 Dec 2007, 03:32

i always knew this would happen feck ali and robinson
floyd is the greatest

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 09 Dec 2007, 03:53

Watched from a Sports bar in Moscow without any audible commentary, and, to be Frank, I don't think Cortez did a bad job. The point deduction was fair enough. I've seen those not given, but Floyd was through the ropes, Hatton saw and still loaded up the punch. It wasn't as if he was already throwing it.

Again, maybe Cortez broke them too fast, but, really, it didn't make too much difference, because Floyd was awesome.

I could tell within about 90 seconds that Hatton was going to lose. Hatton needed to come out like a madman and rack up the points. He needed to be 4-1 after 5. But Floyd was picking him off from the start: The Pretty Boy is simply the most accurate puncher I've ever seen, and that includes Jones Junior in his prime.

I only gave Hatton two rounds, the third and the fifth, and after the sixth, or maybe the seventh, I told my drinking partner that I thought Hatton would get knocked out.

I hardly saw Hatton land anything decent, and Mayweather was popping Hatton to head and body all night.

Hatton smothered his work by getting far too close far too often, but he had to, because every time some distance opened between the two, Hatton was being picked apart.

I really believe that it's going to take somebody far bigger and stronger than Hatton to make that game plan work. Somebody to tire Mayweather when he's smothering, hurt him without hitting clean, and make him think twice about going so easily on the offensive. Mayweather was so comfortable in there. Dela Hoya made him uncomfortable early because of the size difference, and Hatton simply didn’t have that.

Bless Hatton, because he's a wonderful person, and he looked absolutely gutted after the fight, but Mayweather is leagues apart from every other fighter in the world. The only fighter remotely close to him is Paquiao, and even he must be a clear second after tonight.

Who's next after that? Joe Calzaghe?

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 09 Dec 2007, 04:23

mrbassie wrote:Cortez reffed the fight just fine. A half pissed Darke and Watt criticised him every step for not reffing the fight like Mickey effing Vann would've. He was fair but firm just like his motto, if Mayweather got Hatton in a headlock he broke them apart, it wasn't one way. He made it as clean a fight as he could, if you want to watch wrestling, dig out the betamax tapes of Shirley Crabtree.
Mayweather won fair and square.

When in Rome... you should know what to expect, and Ricky did. Jim Watt took a hernia but he should be thankful and more respectful, even if Cortez is showing increasing flashes of being past it, firstly because if it had been Nady or Drakulich in there Hatton would have faced only two scenarios: 1) more than one point deduction and perhaps even a DQ 2) rounds one, two and three being more like rounds eight, nine and ten. Other refs could have been better - Tony Weeks may have let Hatton get away with murder (in US terms), Kenny Bayless would have probably slapped instead of separated with an arm.

The ref was (and was always going to be) crucial to this fight. Overall Cortez did not have his best night (those days are likely long gone to be honest) but you can not judge a referee in a foreign ring by the standards of your home country. That's one of the things that make an away win special. Adapting to obstacles and customs.

Ricky boxed a perfect fight as in what was needed to win. He made small mistakes throughout that maybe cost him in dividends but he also showed some cracking sneaky shots in that right hand off the break and a stiff jab at times. I thought the rushing to nullify Mayweather's jab (probably the best in boxing - arguably for some years) was working great until he became too ragged and eventually entered into that autopilot-toemashing-mode we've see plenty of since Tszyu. Mayweather made him pay with quite a simple punch and it was all a bit sad, despite him in no way being outclassed like a lot of people would have predicted (hype followers).

Bit disappointed in the sour grapes from Ricky afterward complaining about Mayweather's dirty tactics. Oh yeah they were there alright - he should have been deducted a point immediately after cutting Hatton because I'm positive he raked his face with his left palm (but the ref and commentators missed it?). And he also did plenty elbowing and other forms of bumping (no doubt trying to at least swell if not cut that skin). But I also got the impression Ricky was expecting to automatically take the role of roughing up the pretty boy, but finding the pretty boy a pretty dirty bastard himself, then getting sour because he could find no real way to adapt to it. Ricky offered the caveat (not joking at all despite the jokey attitude) that 'he would have done it to him', fair enough, so there was no need to make such a long point of it in the interview. It smelled of excuse making but I'm inclined to put it down to stemming from personal embarrassment and disappointment toward his fans.

He doesn't need excuses, of course, for reaching then putting himself up on the highest stage. Plus his role models: Roberto Duran, Marco Antonio Barrera and others - have been beaten and rebounded from heavier defeats from (a lot of people would say) lesser fighters.

Overall was the event good for boxing? The fighting was an awful spectacle to the uninitiated and clueless, the knockout was a conclusive (concussive) one, the dramatic scenes afterwards - Hatton's girlfriend physically retching, Mayweather's kids in tears... horrible sights, to be honest. Thank goodness the English fans behaved after the second worst (the first being an early KO) scenario they could have been dealt. I honestly felt a knot in my stomach when I remembered they allowed not only alcohol but bottles in the arenas in the US, and saw fans with them immediately following the obligatory embarrassing of everone bar themselves during the US national anthem.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Dec 2007, 04:33

Where was Hatton's defence?

He plowed forward mostly and was getting hit on the way In like he does with his style. His footwork and handspeed was slower as well.

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 09 Dec 2007, 05:09

The point deduction was a disgrace, I'm glad Hatton didn't perform as well over the final stretch and went to the scorecards because it would have been a vegas desicion for Floyd!

Tykemania · Post by **Tykemania** » 09 Dec 2007, 05:18

Carbo wrote:Watched from a Sports bar in Moscow without any audible commentary, and, to be Frank, I don't think Cortez did a bad job. The point deduction was fair enough. I've seen those not given, but Floyd was through the ropes, Hatton saw and still loaded up the punch. It wasn't as if he was already throwing it.

Again, maybe Cortez broke them too fast, but, really, it didn't make too much difference, because Floyd was awesome.

I could tell within about 90 seconds that Hatton was going to lose. Hatton needed to come out like a madman and rack up the points. He needed to be 4-1 after 5. But Floyd was picking him off from the start: The Pretty Boy is simply the most accurate puncher I've ever seen, and that includes Jones Junior in his prime.

I only gave Hatton two rounds, the third and the fifth, and after the sixth, or maybe the seventh, I told my drinking partner that I thought Hatton would get knocked out.

I hardly saw Hatton land anything decent, and Mayweather was popping Hatton to head and body all night.

Hatton smothered his work by getting far too close far too often, but he had to, because every time some distance opened between the two, Hatton was being picked apart.

I really believe that it's going to take somebody far bigger and stronger than Hatton to make that game plan work. Somebody to tire Mayweather when he's smothering, hurt him without hitting clean, and make him think twice about going so easily on the offensive. Mayweather was so comfortable in there. Dela Hoya made him uncomfortable early because of the size difference, and Hatton simply didn’t have that.

Bless Hatton, because he's a wonderful person, and he looked absolutely gutted after the fight, but Mayweather is leagues apart from every other fighter in the world. The only fighter remotely close to him is Paquiao, and even he must be a clear second after tonight.

Who's next after that? Joe Calzaghe?

The referee was a bit "defensive" in terms of his willingness to let the fight flow but it really didn't affect the result - I thought that the general tide wqas against Hatton from about round five, and the stoppage was reasonable enough.

I think the P4P now would have to read:
Mayweather
Pacquiao
Calzaghe
JM Marquez

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 09 Dec 2007, 07:12

Mayweather would have won anyway. But Cortez did a really poor job.

It wasn't just the constant warning of Hatton for a variety of (what I considered) mostly legal work. If that's the standard Cortez wanted to set, then fine.

But the few admonishments he sent Mayweather's way were very weak and he was, for the first six rounds, allowed to get away with a variety of infringements, especially blatantly shoving his forearms into Hatton's face.

After that, it didn't matter.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Dec 2007, 07:34

Max Molyneux wrote:Where was Hatton's defence?

He plowed forward mostly and was getting hit on the way In like he does with his style. His footwork and handspeed was slower as well.

He did avoid some right hands, by moving in and leaning his head to the left. It's just that when Mayweather - a lightning fast puncher and the more powerful man - found that space to punch it was no contest.

I thought Hatton did some good things to keep Floyd off balance over the first half, doing things off the jab, but he just didn't have any target to hit later on.

Looking at this fight, I think Witter would have a lot of success vs Hatton, even if Junior wouldn't be the stronger man with it being at 140. The thought is that Hatton has pretty much shown us what he has, and ppl know what to do with him now.

Don't want to see Hatton at 147 ever again. He could easily be 0-2 at the weight, and his bullying tactics just don't work on bigger men. I think we need Calzaghe to slap Hopkins' ears off to boost the national morale a bit now.

glahn · Post by **glahn** » 09 Dec 2007, 07:39

The referee was poor, but I reckon Ricky would have lost anyway. Floyd is just that good.