John Murray

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Dec 2007, 09:21

Warren said he wants to match Khan vs Romanov. Didn't catch that, and I hope it's genuine.

That gives me a lot of confidence in Khan, more so than a KO of Earl, and if he wins, that's very, very impressive. Murray would have to obliterate Thaxton and so something else very, very dramatic to be in the race for #1 Brit lightweight.

Like I say, I acknmowledge Murray needs to do something, but I have belief in his abilities.

The Blade · Post by **The Blade** » 09 Dec 2007, 11:12

Autobarn wrote:
sweetscience wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Murray has taken backward steps. He lost the Showtime date through injury, he fought the same guy twice (Smith?) and did worse in the rematch. He only fought 3x this year which is a hindrance but it making up for it now in taking regular fights and grabbing different experiences.

Murray's had 2 live opponents who were game, in the space of 4 weeks. He was dynamite v Hickman and struggled v the Mexican. If you single out 1 fight and decide a whole career, then you could single out the Hickman win where he looked great.

Let's wait and see Murray vs Thaxton. If John gets a dominant win, all the overreactions will go in the totally opposite direction. Opinion only sways from 1 extreme to another on here. There's so little balance.

ITV showed from rd 4, missed out rd 6 I think and then went the whole hog from 7-10. ITV probably only showed the fight because Murray wasn't dominant.
itv were going to show meager cause he is being mooted as a potential oppo for khan but cause he didnt win they showed murray

they arent in the business of making khan's possible future oppo's look bad (wheres the potential ratings in that) they proberly showed the rounds they did cause they must have had the best action

but to be fair.......khan would destroy murray he is just too slow and doesnt have enough one punch power to trouble khan

let murray fight khan and if one wins with a decent showing let them fight khan, otherwise id rather khan didnt bother
But it always seems to be Sports Network vs Them on TV.

When Murray's on form, he's a very correct puncher. Don't count out those body shots chopping Khan down. Much more compact fighter is Murray and his punches usually look more professiona. If Murray excells next time and if Khan looks amateurish next time, the thread will see-saw! Also, in a case where Murray must go after an opponent he may bring his best (or may just not be fast enough, n one knows).

Let's see who can get to Thaxton/Romanov first.

I presume you are related to Murray, or still have the Barking gun tucked away somewhere. Thaxton will be offered Khan, for big money. So let's see what you say after we've seen that one.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 09 Dec 2007, 11:23

Spud wrote:
Autobarn wrote:some of the reactions on here are preposterous. rawling and duke are there to make SN fighters look as good as they can and the "opposition" hve to look bad.

murray took a LEARNING FIGHT. can the numbskulls on here not comprehend that? he's a young fighter and you pick things up with different fights.

he looked great vs hickman last month, but was in vs a guy who was harder to hit clean this time. he has a more rounded style than khan, throws better, shorter shots and has infighting skills which cannot be underestimated.

khan, by contrast, took a COSMETIC fight, by finishing off a slow fighter probably shell shocked from 3 consecutive hard fights (romanov, ramirez, katsidis). are ppl forgetting what happened to khan when he got tagged by a feather fisted, above average technician, limond? down twice from 1 punch.

khan would learn a lot fighting cagey, game mexicans who can take a shot.

who would have believed that the 1 and only juan diaz got dropped early in his career and was so upset about it that he cried in a post fight interview on showtime...despite that humiliation, he went on to become one of the youngest lightweight beltholders ever and now looks poised to rule the division, holding 3 belts as he does. get a fricking life, some of you.
Go and **** yourself - people are entitled to opinions.

Why the insults??

Using your words MURRAY TOOK A LEARNING FIGHT!!!

It is you who is a thick numbskull - John Murray was having his 23rd professional fight after having been a professional boxer for 4 YEARS!!!!- why the need for a learning fight against a fighter with a 16-9-1 record?? - also if you knew your boxing you would see this tough mexican they put Murray in with has campaigned for the most of his career at far lower weights!!!

Oh grow up!... you obviously have some agenda for criticising Murray so much!. If Khan is going along so great why was he almost koed by a guy who cant punch his way through candyfloss and then put in with a guy who can barely take a punch anymore!!!. A 16-9-1 record is hardly a disgrace, it depends on who the guys been fighting, and if you think a pro boxer doesnt need any learning fights after 23 pro bouts then you dont know much at all mate!!....

The Blade · Post by **The Blade** » 09 Dec 2007, 11:35

silkov wrote:
Spud wrote:
Autobarn wrote:some of the reactions on here are preposterous. rawling and duke are there to make SN fighters look as good as they can and the "opposition" hve to look bad.

murray took a LEARNING FIGHT. can the numbskulls on here not comprehend that? he's a young fighter and you pick things up with different fights.

he looked great vs hickman last month, but was in vs a guy who was harder to hit clean this time. he has a more rounded style than khan, throws better, shorter shots and has infighting skills which cannot be underestimated.

khan, by contrast, took a COSMETIC fight, by finishing off a slow fighter probably shell shocked from 3 consecutive hard fights (romanov, ramirez, katsidis). are ppl forgetting what happened to khan when he got tagged by a feather fisted, above average technician, limond? down twice from 1 punch.

khan would learn a lot fighting cagey, game mexicans who can take a shot.

who would have believed that the 1 and only juan diaz got dropped early in his career and was so upset about it that he cried in a post fight interview on showtime...despite that humiliation, he went on to become one of the youngest lightweight beltholders ever and now looks poised to rule the division, holding 3 belts as he does. get a fricking life, some of you.
Go and **** yourself - people are entitled to opinions.

Why the insults??

Using your words MURRAY TOOK A LEARNING FIGHT!!!

It is you who is a thick numbskull - John Murray was having his 23rd professional fight after having been a professional boxer for 4 YEARS!!!!- why the need for a learning fight against a fighter with a 16-9-1 record?? - also if you knew your boxing you would see this tough mexican they put Murray in with has campaigned for the most of his career at far lower weights!!!
Oh grow up!... you obviously have some agenda for criticising Murray so much!. If Khan is going along so great why was he almost koed by a guy who cant punch his way through candyfloss and then put in with a guy who can barely take a punch anymore!!!. A 16-9-1 record is hardly a disgrace, it depends on who the guys been fighting, and if you think a pro boxer doesnt need any learning fights after 23 pro bouts then you dont know much at all mate!!....

I'm told from those who saw the whole thing that he was lucky to win. Too slow, too easy to hit, and not a puncher. Even at this late stage of his career, Thaxton could beat him.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Dec 2007, 11:41

The Blade wrote:
Autobarn wrote:
sweetscience wrote: itv were going to show meager cause he is being mooted as a potential oppo for khan but cause he didnt win they showed murray

they arent in the business of making khan's possible future oppo's look bad (wheres the potential ratings in that) they proberly showed the rounds they did cause they must have had the best action

but to be fair.......khan would destroy murray he is just too slow and doesnt have enough one punch power to trouble khan

let murray fight khan and if one wins with a decent showing let them fight khan, otherwise id rather khan didnt bother
But it always seems to be Sports Network vs Them on TV.

When Murray's on form, he's a very correct puncher. Don't count out those body shots chopping Khan down. Much more compact fighter is Murray and his punches usually look more professiona. If Murray excells next time and if Khan looks amateurish next time, the thread will see-saw! Also, in a case where Murray must go after an opponent he may bring his best (or may just not be fast enough, n one knows).

Let's see who can get to Thaxton/Romanov first.
I presume you are related to Murray, or still have the Barking gun tucked away somewhere. Thaxton will be offered Khan, for big money. So let's see what you say after we've seen that one.

not at all. silly comment. i'm interested in a # of exciting, young British fighters.

bad performance doesn't guarantee a bad fighter. murray may have been stale, jetlagged or anything and no one has even seen the full fight.

khan's win was very impressive, but how much does a flashy 1st rd KO really tell you? Joe Mesi-Davarryl Williamson anyone?

if Khan gets Thaxton, that doesn't = that means Murray was no good. Let's see if Murray gets Thaxton - they are stablemates - and let's see how Murray fares. If he goes the way of Lee Meager, then the critcisms are valid.

However, if he excells, if he does what Hatton did to Thaxton, then he has real promise for higher levels. I'd like to see Murray and Khan go all the way. I recognise both lads' strenths and weaknesses without trying to go overboard either way.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 09 Dec 2007, 11:46

The Blade wrote:
silkov wrote:
Spud wrote: Go and **** yourself - people are entitled to opinions.

Why the insults??

Using your words MURRAY TOOK A LEARNING FIGHT!!!

It is you who is a thick numbskull - John Murray was having his 23rd professional fight after having been a professional boxer for 4 YEARS!!!!- why the need for a learning fight against a fighter with a 16-9-1 record?? - also if you knew your boxing you would see this tough mexican they put Murray in with has campaigned for the most of his career at far lower weights!!!
Oh grow up!... you obviously have some agenda for criticising Murray so much!. If Khan is going along so great why was he almost koed by a guy who cant punch his way through candyfloss and then put in with a guy who can barely take a punch anymore!!!. A 16-9-1 record is hardly a disgrace, it depends on who the guys been fighting, and if you think a pro boxer doesnt need any learning fights after 23 pro bouts then you dont know much at all mate!!....
I'm told from those who saw the whole thing that he was lucky to win. Too slow, too easy to hit, and not a puncher. Even at this late stage of his career, Thaxton could beat him.

Fighters mature at different rates, my point is I dont see the reason to criticise Murray for fighting a tough guy in Vegas... he will have learnt a lot from the fight hopefully. Certainly more than Amir learnt against Earl yesterday. Froch is 30 but fought the washed up Reid in his last fight!.... hardly something to shout about imo.
Maybe Murray hasnt come on as quick as he might have, which is just the reason why he is having these type of learning fights which will make him a much more rounded pro in the long run....

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Dec 2007, 11:49

yep, and murray's only had 3 fights this year after injury. 2 good showings, 1 bad 1 and it's like the end of the world.

khan was being laughed at on these boards not long ago, for the limond double knockdown punch.

US reports that i read had Murray winning the munguia fight.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 09 Dec 2007, 13:48

Autobarn,

You are clutching at straws - tell me in his 23 fights - nope lets say in his last 5 or 6 fights - who has he beaten??

Silkov,

No agenda at all - I like and still highly rate Froch who is a Hennessy fighter and think he will prove a lot of people on here wrong - I mention this because there will be some who say I hate anything "Hennessy Sports" - I still rate Lee Meager as one of my favourite boxers - and I am starting to think how wrong I was concerning the future of Darren Barker. I also believe Junior Witters last performance was outstanding and he proved me wrong.

So lets get the I have an agenda out of the way shall we - John Murray as I have stated before has been a professional boxer for 4 years and had 23 fights - wonder what you and others would be saying if Khan had a similar appraoch - indeed myself and others were slating his opponents - yet Murray in my opinion is still facing inferior opposition to what Khan is now!!! - Whilst Khan progresses onto the European Title - Murray will still be having his "Warm Up" fights.

John Murray is an excellent boxer who could do very well indeed for himself - my points concerning him all along is his progression since he left the guidance of Steve Wood his previous manager who incidentally has f*ck all to do with Fight Academy!! before anyone accuses me of that.

The progression of John Murray who has the skills to go far is simply not good enough - in my view the standard of his opponents are simply not good enough.

I will finish by stressing that I actually think John Murray could be good - bloody good and a boxer this country could be proud of but his progression is not good enough at this stage.

dragons · Post by **dragons** » 09 Dec 2007, 14:15

As much i'd like to see thaxton beat Khan. Lets be honest Thaxton would have a punchers chance ... And thats it.
He's to much like Earl - To easy to hit .. And to slow.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Dec 2007, 14:36

I disagree that I'm clutching at straws.

I do agree that Murray's development is suspect - he looked ready to do big things after his fight on the Lacy-Reid undercard yet does take steps back.

I agree Khan is more naturally talented and has been developed with more purpose.

All I'm saying is, the last fight does not mean Murray is shit. In fact we've been through this all before, because apparently he was going to get battered by Hickman on the basis of a previous bad showing...

We're arguing over pennies on something we can't be sure of i.e. exactly what Khan and Murray's last bouts really proved to us. If Murray had fought Earl last month, he may have knocked Earl's head in over a prolonged period...

Ultimately, we can only bicker about it until Murray gets a domestic title shot and shows us what he really has.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 09 Dec 2007, 17:30

Spud wrote:Autobarn,

You are clutching at straws - tell me in his 23 fights - nope lets say in his last 5 or 6 fights - who has he beaten??

Silkov,

No agenda at all - I like and still highly rate Froch who is a Hennessy fighter and think he will prove a lot of people on here wrong - I mention this because there will be some who say I hate anything "Hennessy Sports" - I still rate Lee Meager as one of my favourite boxers - and I am starting to think how wrong I was concerning the future of Darren Barker. I also believe Junior Witters last performance was outstanding and he proved me wrong.

So lets get the I have an agenda out of the way shall we - John Murray as I have stated before has been a professional boxer for 4 years and had 23 fights - wonder what you and others would be saying if Khan had a similar appraoch - indeed myself and others were slating his opponents - yet Murray in my opinion is still facing inferior opposition to what Khan is now!!! - Whilst Khan progresses onto the European Title - Murray will still be having his "Warm Up" fights.

John Murray is an excellent boxer who could do very well indeed for himself - my points concerning him all along is his progression since he left the guidance of Steve Wood his previous manager who incidentally has f*ck all to do with Fight Academy!! before anyone accuses me of that.

The progression of John Murray who has the skills to go far is simply not good enough - in my view the standard of his opponents are simply not good enough.

I will finish by stressing that I actually think John Murray could be good - bloody good and a boxer this country could be proud of but his progression is not good enough at this stage.

He's coming back from injury and has just won a tough fight in America, what more would you have him do??. Just because a guy is 16-9 doesnt mean that he is not a decent opponent, the fact that he gave Murray a hard fight proves the case that he was indeed a good opponent for him.
How can you criticise a fighters progression when theyve been hampered by injury??....
I dont see you knocking Frochs 'progression' even though he is 30 and still at domestic level...
Is Khan really progressing that well by knocking over a washed up Graham Earl... the truth is Khan hasnt had a real fight since Limond almost koed him....

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 09 Dec 2007, 17:45

silkov wrote:
Spud wrote:Autobarn,

You are clutching at straws - tell me in his 23 fights - nope lets say in his last 5 or 6 fights - who has he beaten??

Silkov,

No agenda at all - I like and still highly rate Froch who is a Hennessy fighter and think he will prove a lot of people on here wrong - I mention this because there will be some who say I hate anything "Hennessy Sports" - I still rate Lee Meager as one of my favourite boxers - and I am starting to think how wrong I was concerning the future of Darren Barker. I also believe Junior Witters last performance was outstanding and he proved me wrong.

So lets get the I have an agenda out of the way shall we - John Murray as I have stated before has been a professional boxer for 4 years and had 23 fights - wonder what you and others would be saying if Khan had a similar appraoch - indeed myself and others were slating his opponents - yet Murray in my opinion is still facing inferior opposition to what Khan is now!!! - Whilst Khan progresses onto the European Title - Murray will still be having his "Warm Up" fights.

John Murray is an excellent boxer who could do very well indeed for himself - my points concerning him all along is his progression since he left the guidance of Steve Wood his previous manager who incidentally has f*ck all to do with Fight Academy!! before anyone accuses me of that.

The progression of John Murray who has the skills to go far is simply not good enough - in my view the standard of his opponents are simply not good enough.

I will finish by stressing that I actually think John Murray could be good - bloody good and a boxer this country could be proud of but his progression is not good enough at this stage.
He's coming back from injury and has just won a tough fight in America, what more would you have him do??. Just because a guy is 16-9 doesnt mean that he is not a decent opponent, the fact that he gave Murray a hard fight proves the case that he was indeed a good opponent for him.
How can you criticise a fighters progression when theyve been hampered by injury??....
I dont see you knocking Frochs 'progression' even though he is 30 and still at domestic level...
Is Khan really progressing that well by knocking over a washed up Graham Earl... the truth is Khan hasnt had a real fight since Limond almost koed him....

You make some valid points

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Dec 2007, 17:49

Like I say, when I'm clutching straws on a cliff end, the Murray who showed up vs Hickman could well have broken Earl into little byte size pieces, over a few rounds.

I will pick boldly that if Murray gets Thaxton, and he might well, that he'll win, and that he'll show the subtleties that Meager was lacking.

Put John in with a fighter he knows something about, my guess is he'll look better.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 09 Dec 2007, 17:51

Autobarn wrote:Like I say, when I'm clutching straws on a cliff end, the Murray who showed up vs Hickman could well have broken Earl into little byte size pieces, over a few rounds.

I will pick boldly that if Murray gets Thaxton, and he might well, that he'll win, and that he'll show the subtleties that Meager was lacking.

Put John in with a fighter he knows something about, my guess is he'll look better.

18 months ago I would have agreed with what you are saying - some of what you write is also valid.

But now I am so dissapointed in Murray and his progression.

I make Thaxton a favourite especially if Murray were to fight anything like the other night.

BBN · Post by **BBN** » 09 Dec 2007, 17:52

Murray vs. Meager in a British title eliminator?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Dec 2007, 18:01

Spud wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Like I say, when I'm clutching straws on a cliff end, the Murray who showed up vs Hickman could well have broken Earl into little byte size pieces, over a few rounds.

I will pick boldly that if Murray gets Thaxton, and he might well, that he'll win, and that he'll show the subtleties that Meager was lacking.

Put John in with a fighter he knows something about, my guess is he'll look better.
18 months ago I would have agreed with what you are saying - some of what you write is also valid.

But now I am so dissapointed in Murray and his progression.

I make Thaxton a favourite especially if Murray were to fight anything like the other night.

I've followed JM's fights a couple of years. I think he does have the frustrating nights - Glenn McCrory was on his case a lot last year. Then on other days he'll look razor sharp, poised, handing out methodical beatdowns (my fave style of boxing).

It might be a case of going stale in some fights. I just think, put him in with a good fighter, with a proper title on the line, and we'll see more from him.

Wouldn't surprise me if ITV showed the shit bits to make him look worst, on Khan's big day. Can help but think Earl's chin has been pulverised so much in the last 3 fights. I'd eve go as far to say that he was never the same after those late rds vs Romanov.

It's a real shame about some of these mishaps that have hit Hennessey fighters. Some awful luck - Barker losing his brother, Murray injured, inactive and losing the ShoBox date, Froch's knee giving his trouble...

bigped · Post by **bigped** » 10 Dec 2007, 10:08

I was ringside for the murray fight and he didnt look to hot, my man Mcewan looked good, and the main event was a cracker.

Khan would beat murray imo.

bigped · Post by **bigped** » 10 Dec 2007, 18:52

I was ringside at the fight , and murray didnt look to good at all, struggled totally throught and scraped through in my opinion. At the same time Khan was sparking earl, Khan woul do murray in 6 imo.