What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Ricky_
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by Ricky_ »

expe wrote:
No, but he has several wins that are better than the rest of Rigo's wins, I'm not ranking him over someone like Froch based on one great win, when Froch has several top wins.
Froch has never beaten a top 10 P4P fighter, Rigondeaux took Donaire apart. There's more to P4P than a fighter's record, ability has to be taken into account too, if Kell Brook fought Floyd Mayweather and lost a tight decision, there's an argument he should be top 10 because he came close to beating no 1, not like that would ever happen though. Froch is heavy handed, has a great chin, solid jab and is as tough as they come, but technically he's average and his defence is poor. Rigondeaux doesn't hit as hard or have as tough a chin, but his defence is brilliant along with his footwork, excellent hand speed and technique wise he's nigh on perfect.

Peope forget the roots of the term pound for pound and it's now became like a football league table, when infact it's simply a measure of skill while discounting size and weight classes.

If you do a point system whereby Froch gains points for wins over Kessler, Mack and Bute where more points are on offer dependant upon those fighters rankigns then he's going to rate higher than Rigondeaux.

But take the true definition of P4P; who is the more skillfull if they were the same size, and term born to credit Robinsons full value, to suggest Froch is in the same realm as Pacquiao (skill wise or resume wise) or in the same realm is Rigo (skill wise) is frankly absurd.
CheckHook
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by CheckHook »

I'd say any boxing ranking whether it be weight class or p4p has much more to do with achievement and form than skill or talent.... Skill is esoteric and hard to define when it comes to boxing, this sport is all about what you accomplish and how your form is, that's surely the most effective way to rank a fighter, anything else is speculation.
crusader
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by crusader »

You don't understand P4P, it's not an all time list. Manny was sparked and didn't get the nod vs Bradley and hasn't beat anyone of note for a while. Froch beat Kessler and Bute. Froch goes higher. If Manny takes out Rios and Bradley in a rematch, then he will climb higher.
Is there a universally agreed upon set of criteria for ranking fighters P4P? People often mean different things (e.g. superior resume vs. superior ability) when they say one fighter is superior P4P to another, and I've seen nothing to suggest that there is only one acceptable conception of what P4P rankings are meant to reflect.

I also don't see why the Bradley fight should be viewed as anything other than a dominating performance from Pacquiao, and I think that is more impressive than anything Froch has done.
jessi
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by jessi »

Expe, p4p I think rigondeaux does hit as hard and have just as tough chin
crusader
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by crusader »

Really?

He's been down twice and he was on jelly legs on two occasions against modest punching Roberto Marroquin. I don't think he's shown that his ability to take a shot is as good as Froch's.
WelshDevil
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by WelshDevil »

Guillermo Rigondeaux is the most talented fighter in the sport - in my honest opinion. The way he controlled Donaire was amazing.

P4P is abit of fantasy and I don't think there is any true set of guidelines to it. I would personally rate Rigo higher than Froch.
forcefraser
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by forcefraser »

WelshDevil wrote:Guillermo Rigondeaux is the most talented fighter in the sport - in my honest opinion. The way he controlled Donaire was amazing.

P4P is abit of fantasy and I don't think there is any true set of guidelines to it. I would personally rate Rigo higher than Froch.
Mayweather is the most talented fighter in the sport. Simple
danconnollyeire
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by danconnollyeire »

stujones wrote:
danconnollyeire wrote:@Ricky - do some research

It's not my notion it's how P4P works

Before the lucky Marquez MD, Pac's wins were Clottey, Margarito and Mosely, 3 guys who I doubt were in the top 10, even top 15 at the time. Froch has beat top 5 guy's and only lost to number one in previous years. It has nothing to do with how an armchair fans, like yourself, perceives someone's boxing ability, because then it would be based purely on opinion and not form, which is stupid
Dan not sure what you mean here - are you trying to say that Froch has beaten some top 5 P4P or top 5 in his weight class? If the latter, then surely Clottey, Marg and Mosley were top 10 in their weight class.

If you mean the former (Froch beaten some top 5 P4P guys).... who?
Yeah in his weight class... he's fought higher opponents than Pac has
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by danconnollyeire »

palooka wrote:
danconnollyeire wrote:@Ricky - do some research

It's not my notion it's how P4P works

Before the lucky Marquez MD, Pac's wins were Clottey, Margarito and Mosely, 3 guys who I doubt were in the top 10, even top 15 at the time. Froch has beat top 5 guy's and only lost to number one in previous years. It has nothing to do with how an armchair fans, like yourself, perceives someone's boxing ability, because then it would be based purely on opinion and not form, which is stupid



Kell Brook is the BoxRec World Pound For Pound number 19, Paquiao at 14 and Froch at 7.
That's boxrec ranking, it's totally different
stujones
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by stujones »

danconnollyeire wrote:
stujones wrote:
danconnollyeire wrote:@Ricky - do some research

It's not my notion it's how P4P works

Before the lucky Marquez MD, Pac's wins were Clottey, Margarito and Mosely, 3 guys who I doubt were in the top 10, even top 15 at the time. Froch has beat top 5 guy's and only lost to number one in previous years. It has nothing to do with how an armchair fans, like yourself, perceives someone's boxing ability, because then it would be based purely on opinion and not form, which is stupid
Dan not sure what you mean here - are you trying to say that Froch has beaten some top 5 P4P or top 5 in his weight class? If the latter, then surely Clottey, Marg and Mosley were top 10 in their weight class.

If you mean the former (Froch beaten some top 5 P4P guys).... who?
Yeah in his weight class... he's fought higher opponents than Pac has
I think to say Clottey, Margarito and Mosely aren't top 10 at the time is a bit much. All them were recent champions etc.
palooka
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by palooka »

danconnollyeire wrote:
palooka wrote:
danconnollyeire wrote:@Ricky - do some research

It's not my notion it's how P4P works

Before the lucky Marquez MD, Pac's wins were Clottey, Margarito and Mosely, 3 guys who I doubt were in the top 10, even top 15 at the time. Froch has beat top 5 guy's and only lost to number one in previous years. It has nothing to do with how an armchair fans, like yourself, perceives someone's boxing ability, because then it would be based purely on opinion and not form, which is stupid



Kell Brook is the BoxRec World Pound For Pound number 19, Paquiao at 14 and Froch at 7.
That's boxrec ranking, it's totally different
Twilight zone different or just a little odd?
Matt W
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by Matt W »

Hate the status P4P seems to have attained, to the extent that fighters (i.e. Ricky Hatton) refer to it as an actual title they are competing for. Sure I heard Khan talking about fighting Floyd for it too, even if by some miracle Khan beat Floyd no way is he P4P number 1 (and I say that as someone that likes Khan).
mason123
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by mason123 »

Roves dropped froch sparring a couple of years ago
JC
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by JC »

mason123 wrote:Roves dropped froch sparring a couple of years ago
Thought it was the other way round?
DMA1987
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by DMA1987 »

mason123 wrote:Roves dropped froch sparring a couple of years ago
As J-C said its the wrong way around. Have Groves fans moved along to re-writing history now? Think that is stage 3 of delusion.
Matt W
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by Matt W »

mason123 wrote:Roves dropped froch sparring a couple of years ago
Behave yourself.
J
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Re: What has George Groves said to rile Carl Froch so much?

Post by J »

Matt W wrote:
mason123 wrote:Roves dropped froch sparring a couple of years ago
Behave yourself.

iother way around 2nd round of sparring so i heard.
hence the big talk from booth (previously) and groves getting on carls tits.
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