BoxRec

I always thought down to Bartleys influence there would of been more boxers from his adopted home town of Uttoxeter. Didn't really happen though.

Some man for one man was Bartley Gorman

What was the name of the bloke that Bartley fought in the book who was short so used to practice head butting a football on a washing line? I enjoyed that story. He said that instead of sitting on a chair, he'd lay on the table amongst all the pints and be surrounded by ladies. There was a photo of him in the book and he looked a right hard c*nt.

Henry Francis? That sounds about right.

Anybody got any stories about him?

mercman wrote: ↑07 Jan 2014, 07:02

jonny wrote:

hurlock wrote:
Ok Davey boy!

Ain't Alvin slick miller from Doncaster can't call it Donny sounds like an Irish county ??

Been some good fighters and good journey men from Doncaster

Yep, Miller was from Doncaster. Other notable journeymen from the town have included Dave (John) Jules; Mick Cawdon; Ronnie Stephenson; Dave Croft; the Joyce brothers; and, of course, the aforementioned Dean Bramhald. In fact, loads of others, mainly fighting out of Johnny Rushton's stable. Better class boxers from Doncaster have included Bruce Woodcock, Jon Jo Irwin and nowadays Jamie McDonnell, of course. Many claim the most naturally talented fighter to come from the town was Pete Gabbitus though. He could have been top drawer but turned pro too early and was badly managed really. Never fulfilled his potential for a variety of reasons.

Gabbitus beat Duke McKenzie in the amateurs but ran into some good lads early in his pro career and it slowed his momentum. He persevered and would have got a crack at Mark Reefer for the Commonwealth super-featherweight title had he beaten Sugar Gibiluru in 1990 in Doncaster, but the battle-hardened Gibiluru came through. Gibiluru was then poleaxed by Reefer with a brutal right uppercut two months later.

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 05:21

bennie wrote: ↑10 Jan 2021, 23:48

mercman wrote: ↑07 Jan 2014, 07:02

Yep, Miller was from Doncaster. Other notable journeymen from the town have included Dave (John) Jules; Mick Cawdon; Ronnie Stephenson; Dave Croft; the Joyce brothers; and, of course, the aforementioned Dean Bramhald. In fact, loads of others, mainly fighting out of Johnny Rushton's stable. Better class boxers from Doncaster have included Bruce Woodcock, Jon Jo Irwin and nowadays Jamie McDonnell, of course. Many claim the most naturally talented fighter to come from the town was Pete Gabbitus though. He could have been top drawer but turned pro too early and was badly managed really. Never fulfilled his potential for a variety of reasons.

Gabbitus beat Duke McKenzie in the amateurs but ran into some good lads early in his pro career and it slowed his momentum. He persevered and would have got a crack at Mark Reefer for the Commonwealth super-featherweight title had he beaten Sugar Gibiluru in 1990 in Doncaster, but the battle-hardened Gibiluru came through. Gibiluru was then poleaxed by Reefer with a brutal right uppercut two months later.

Gabbitus was talented, yes, but turned over too early and was put in against the bigger, older, more experienced Sammy Sims at just 17. He got a bit of hiding in that one and they reckon his heart was never really in it after that.

Gabbitus actually had quite a long career but only really fought intermittently and that loss to Gibiliru was really his last chance, although he did have a few fights thereafter.

I was quite surprised when Gibiliru beat Gabbitus, who was much more skilled, but Gibiliru was a tough guy if nothing else and I think Gabbitus actually quit in that one.

Yes, Sims was an iron man from Newport who switched to boxing from kickboxing and had his nose spread a few times but he learned quickly and was already at eight-round level when he went in with a three-fight Gabbitus. It sounds like man against boy. Sims later stood up to Jimmy Flint at the Albert Hall in a final eliminator for the British featherweight title. Flint was a vicious puncher and vicious human being but he failed to budge the Welshman and then taunted him by dropping his hands in the fourth round. Sims promptly unloaded a big left hook that flattened the man known as "The Wapping Assassin." Mickey Duff told Sims he was one of the hardest men he had ever seen.
Steve went on to win the British title with a come-from-behind stoppage of the Scot Terry McKeown in Glasgow but then relinquished to avoid Barry McGuigan (a sensible decision by his manager Billy May) and challenged Italy's Loris Stecca for the European title in Italy. Sadly, he took a pasting and was stopped in the fifth round, officially on cuts, but Stecca had picked him off with beautiful straight punches. Sims was never the same and developed into a 'name' opponent for the likes of Lester Ellis, Robert Dickie and Paul Hodkinson.
I notice that Gabbitus was also thrown in with Paul "Fireball" Huggins, another iron man and a very dangerous left-hooker who needed just 33 seconds to finish Gabbitus in Brighton, which is Huggins territory. Huggins later took on McGuigan in a 12-rounder in Belfast and was stopped in the fifth but was never off his feet and protested the stoppage. McGuigan kept well away from Paul's left hook and jabbed his way to victory. Huggins later cracked the world top 25 when he flattened the Italian Vincenzo Limatola in Italy.

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 07:31 It was ridiculous putting Gabbitus in with dangerous fighters like Sims and Huggins at 17 and 18. I never saw the Huggins fight but it was a man against boy job with Sims. That's a good way of putting it.

If ever a fighter would have benefitted from staying amateur for longer it was Gabbitus. He was a really talented junior who, as you said, convincingly beat Duke McKenzie (Not sure if that was NABC or Jnr ABAs).

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Gabbitus won have gone on to win the senior ABAs and maybe represented England at the Commonwealth Games in '82. He'd only have been 21 by the time of the Olympics in '84.

Like I said, he turned over too early though and one way or another Gabbitus never fulfilled his potential; he'd probably have had a much better pro career with a different manager - which he may well have attracted had he stayed am for a couple more years.

Was Gabbitus managed by Johnny Rushton?

I would be interested to know how many boxers came through the Rushton Gym over the years in Armthorpe. I could have been one of those if I had had the bollox to go back.

Incidentially Mick Cawdon died late last year in Scarbroough.

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 09:25

MasterG wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 08:39

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 07:31 It was ridiculous putting Gabbitus in with dangerous fighters like Sims and Huggins at 17 and 18. I never saw the Huggins fight but it was a man against boy job with Sims. That's a good way of putting it.

If ever a fighter would have benefitted from staying amateur for longer it was Gabbitus. He was a really talented junior who, as you said, convincingly beat Duke McKenzie (Not sure if that was NABC or Jnr ABAs).

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Gabbitus won have gone on to win the senior ABAs and maybe represented England at the Commonwealth Games in '82. He'd only have been 21 by the time of the Olympics in '84.

Like I said, he turned over too early though and one way or another Gabbitus never fulfilled his potential; he'd probably have had a much better pro career with a different manager - which he may well have attracted had he stayed am for a couple more years.

Was Gabbitus managed by Johnny Rushton?

I would be interested to know how many boxers came through the Rushton Gym over the years in Armthorpe. I could have been one of those if I had had the bollox to go back.

Incidentially Mick Cawdon died late last year in Scarbroough.

Yes, he was managed by Rushton, who built up a big stable of fighters during the 1980s. Gabbitus must have been one of the first Rushton managed though. One of my nephew's used to train at his gym in Woodlands, but that would have been 20 years ago,

Cawdon can't have been very old can he, maybe mid 50s? Mind you, last I heard he was seriously overweight.

Mick's last name is spelt Cordon. He's my brother-in-law's cousin and has been drinking heavily for a number of years. I hadn't heard he'd died, though.

Poor old Mick. I've just checked on BoxRec and they have predicted his date of death (some time in 2027). I'll have to check my record and see if they know when I'm going to die.

Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 09:50

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 09:25

MasterG wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 08:39

Was Gabbitus managed by Johnny Rushton?

I would be interested to know how many boxers came through the Rushton Gym over the years in Armthorpe. I could have been one of those if I had had the bollox to go back.

Incidentially Mick Cawdon died late last year in Scarbroough.

Yes, he was managed by Rushton, who built up a big stable of fighters during the 1980s. Gabbitus must have been one of the first Rushton managed though. One of my nephew's used to train at his gym in Woodlands, but that would have been 20 years ago,

Cawdon can't have been very old can he, maybe mid 50s? Mind you, last I heard he was seriously overweight.

Mick's last name is spelt Cordon. He's my brother-in-law's cousin and has been drinking heavily for a number of years. I hadn't heard he'd died, though.

I always thought Mick surname was Cordon, that's how it was spelt on a early program I had. Only met him once and spent the entire evening with him.


https://uk.gofundme.com/f/local-boxing-legend-headstone

MasterG wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 08:39

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 07:31 It was ridiculous putting Gabbitus in with dangerous fighters like Sims and Huggins at 17 and 18. I never saw the Huggins fight but it was a man against boy job with Sims. That's a good way of putting it.

If ever a fighter would have benefitted from staying amateur for longer it was Gabbitus. He was a really talented junior who, as you said, convincingly beat Duke McKenzie (Not sure if that was NABC or Jnr ABAs).

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Gabbitus won have gone on to win the senior ABAs and maybe represented England at the Commonwealth Games in '82. He'd only have been 21 by the time of the Olympics in '84.

Like I said, he turned over too early though and one way or another Gabbitus never fulfilled his potential; he'd probably have had a much better pro career with a different manager - which he may well have attracted had he stayed am for a couple more years.

Was Gabbitus managed by Johnny Rushton?

I would be interested to know how many boxers came through the Rushton Gym over the years in Armthorpe. I could have been one of those if I had had the bollox to go back.

Incidentially Mick Cawdon died late last year in Scarbroough.

Off topic a bit but my memory of Armthorpe was playing in a league game vs their miners welfare team and getting booted all over the place by some massive defender with a tache, and gobbed at by some of their fans. Wretched place Out of interest was Paul Gabbitus related to Mick Gabbitus who was well known in the Sheffield football non league scene in the 90s?

The Bartley Gorman book, like the other " hard man " books of the late 90s was a serious waste of £14.99

I can vaguely remember reading in it that Gorman fought a bloke in a pit shaft. Gorman had his eye poked out. So, wait for it, he stopped fighting, put his eye back in its socket, then resumed fighting

Ridiculous nonsense like the Rambo films

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 07:31 It was ridiculous putting Gabbitus in with dangerous fighters like Sims and Huggins at 17 and 18. I never saw the Huggins fight but it was a man against boy job with Sims. That's a good way of putting it.

If ever a fighter would have benefitted from staying amateur for longer it was Gabbitus. He was a really talented junior who, as you said, convincingly beat Duke McKenzie (Not sure if that was NABC or Jnr ABAs).

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Gabbitus won have gone on to win the senior ABAs and maybe represented England at the Commonwealth Games in '82. He'd only have been 21 by the time of the Olympics in '84.

Like I said, he turned over too early though and one way or another Gabbitus never fulfilled his potential; he'd probably have had a much better pro career with a different manager - which he may well have attracted had he stayed am for a couple more years.

My word. Like you say this all smacks of mismanagement on a tragic scale, really.

nobleart1978 wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 13:45 The Bartley Gorman book, like the other " hard man " books of the late 90s was a serious waste of £14.99

I can vaguely remember reading in it that Gorman fought a bloke in a pit shaft. Gorman had his eye poked out. So, wait for it, he stopped fighting, put his eye back in its socket, then resumed fighting

Ridiculous nonsense like the Rambo films

first blood was excellent, and a pioneering film in regards to PTSD in the military. the others were nonsense.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 17:24

nobleart1978 wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 13:45 The Bartley Gorman book, like the other " hard man " books of the late 90s was a serious waste of £14.99

I can vaguely remember reading in it that Gorman fought a bloke in a pit shaft. Gorman had his eye poked out. So, wait for it, he stopped fighting, put his eye back in its socket, then resumed fighting

Ridiculous nonsense like the Rambo films

first blood was excellent, and a pioneering film in regards to PTSD in the military. the others were nonsense.

I saw it within the last year or so. It still holds up pretty well

MasterG wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 11:23

Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 09:50

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 09:25

Yes, he was managed by Rushton, who built up a big stable of fighters during the 1980s. Gabbitus must have been one of the first Rushton managed though. One of my nephew's used to train at his gym in Woodlands, but that would have been 20 years ago,

Cawdon can't have been very old can he, maybe mid 50s? Mind you, last I heard he was seriously overweight.

Mick's last name is spelt Cordon. He's my brother-in-law's cousin and has been drinking heavily for a number of years. I hadn't heard he'd died, though.

I always thought Mick surname was Cordon, that's how it was spelt on a early program I had. Only met him once and spent the entire evening with him.


https://uk.gofundme.com/f/local-boxing-legend-headstone

Damn shame about Mick. Watched him against a young Derek Angol at York Hall in 1987. It was a typical Terry Lawless match: Mick didn't stand a chance and was cut and under pressure when it was stopped in the fourth round. He was seriously overweight even as a fighter but I think he was just built that way, ala Andy Ruiz.

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 14:01

blanca wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 13:31

MasterG wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 08:39

Was Gabbitus managed by Johnny Rushton?

I would be interested to know how many boxers came through the Rushton Gym over the years in Armthorpe. I could have been one of those if I had had the bollox to go back.

Incidentially Mick Cawdon died late last year in Scarbroough.

Off topic a bit but my memory of Armthorpe was playing in a league game vs their miners welfare team and getting booted all over the place by some massive defender with a tache, and gobbed at by some of their fans. Wretched place Out of interest was Paul Gabbitus related to Mick Gabbitus who was well known in the Sheffield football non league scene in the 90s?

Armthorpe Welfare was a bit of a feeder team for Doncaster Rovers for a while and ex-Rovers players would sometimes end up playing for them at the end of their career.

Never heard of a Mick Gabbitus though.

Yeah, Mick played for Norton Woodseats if I remember rightly...early 90s. I played in the ncel for a while before i moved down south. All those ex miners clubs were vicious to play against, goldthorpe, frickley, denaby, armthorpe etc.I was a skinny little winger, teenager, getting smashed by these massive fckers...miss those days

mercman wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 05:42

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 16:43

mercman wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 07:31 It was ridiculous putting Gabbitus in with dangerous fighters like Sims and Huggins at 17 and 18. I never saw the Huggins fight but it was a man against boy job with Sims. That's a good way of putting it.

If ever a fighter would have benefitted from staying amateur for longer it was Gabbitus. He was a really talented junior who, as you said, convincingly beat Duke McKenzie (Not sure if that was NABC or Jnr ABAs).

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Gabbitus won have gone on to win the senior ABAs and maybe represented England at the Commonwealth Games in '82. He'd only have been 21 by the time of the Olympics in '84.

Like I said, he turned over too early though and one way or another Gabbitus never fulfilled his potential; he'd probably have had a much better pro career with a different manager - which he may well have attracted had he stayed am for a couple more years.

My word. Like you say this all smacks of mismanagement on a tragic scale, really.

Yes, he was mismanaged.

Partly, it was due to where Gabbitus was based. He'd have had a much better chance had he been in London where he might have been picked up by Lawless, Duff or another 'connected' manager/promoter.

Otherwise, he would have been better with Brendan Ingle, who I'm sure would have got a lot more out of Gabbitus. We're going back a bit now though and Ingle was not really established at that time.

Either way, going pro at 17, I don't think Gabbitus was in a position to make informed decisions about his career and that meant his potential was wasted really.

I boxed Pete in one of his last fights..... he was past his best but you could see what could have been

Peter was offered a European title shot at lightweight against Poli Diaz in Spain in early 1990, before his capitulation against Sugar Gibiluru. However, the Board blocked him.

mercman wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 04:48

bennie wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 23:16 Peter was offered a European title shot at lightweight against Poli Diaz in Spain in early 1990, before his capitulation against Sugar Gibiluru. However, the Board blocked him.

Right, I never knew that, Bennie. Seems strange really because Gabbitus didn't really fight at lightweight until a few years later, and he hadn't really operated at that level before. I'm sure Diaz would have been too much for him in any case.

Either way, the Gibiliru loss was a bit of a shock. Gabbitus had put a string of wins together and was looking keen and motivated. There was, I believe, some talk of him fighting for the British Title later that year.

Gibiliru, on the other hand, had a losing record and looked quite limited. Yet he beat Gabbitus and went on to win the British Title himself the following year.

I didn't know it either until I read it on the back of an old BN. I also read the report of the Gabbitus-Gibiluru fight and it was very much up for grabs when Gabbitus bailed out at the end of the sixth round, although Gibiluru had done well in the round. He cartwheeled around the ring in delight when Gabbitus retired. As perverse as this sounds, I don't know why Johnny Rushton didn't coax Gabbitus into accepting the role of journeymen. That was Rushton's forte as a boxing manager back in the 1980s and he and Dean Bramhald made a fortune together. I saw the Mercs they rolled up to boxing shows in. Bramhald also opened a string of hairdressing salons, I believe.
Good boxers make the best journeymen because they know how to move around and kid their way through the rounds and Gabbitus was obviously a good boxer. Yes, it's not easy to convince a talented, idealistic teenager to accept losing on points but after Peter was thumped around by Sims and Huggins in his early career, and later by a man making his pro debut in Liverpool's Joey Joynson, Rushton must surely have broached the subject. Why get hurt when you pick up the same money for boxing clever? Any money is good money. Gabbitus only had to look around him at Ronnie Stephenson, Mark Anthony, Dave Croft, Kevin Plant, etc, to figure it out for himself.

bennie wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 05:48
Good boxers make the best journeymen because they know how to move around and kid their way through the rounds and Gabbitus was obviously a good boxer.

this is such a great and fundamentally unappreciated point.

the 'great journeymen' of my era, Pete Buckley and Kristian Laight would be the obvious ones, were very clearly smart and quite skilled ring craftsmen.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 06:43

bennie wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 05:48
Good boxers make the best journeymen because they know how to move around and kid their way through the rounds and Gabbitus was obviously a good boxer.

this is such a great and fundamentally unappreciated point.

the 'great journeymen' of my era, Pete Buckley and Kristian Laight would be the obvious ones, were very clearly smart and quite skilled ring craftsmen.

Fearn and Peter Dunn boxed in the schoolboys at 12 years old. Head and shoulders above the rest. They knew how to take anyone 6 rounds.

I remember Neil Malpass in the Rushton gym around 1987. Malpass was from South Elmsall in Donny I believe and have spoken to folk over the years who have known him.

It's a shame he could not put a few decent wins together to get an area shot. You would have thought after beating Sykes for the second time he would have progressed to a decent standard to get a title shot of some sort.

Panjandrum wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 14:21 South Elmsall is more 'Wakey' than 'Donny' it's an odd little place (with equally odd inhabitants) it's a bit like Royston Vasey from the League of Gentleman.

one of those strange places between barnsley and wakey. Twighlight zone.

blanca wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 18:36

Panjandrum wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 14:21 South Elmsall is more 'Wakey' than 'Donny' it's an odd little place (with equally odd inhabitants) it's a bit like Royston Vasey from the League of Gentleman.

one of those strange places between barnsley and wakey. Twighlight zone.

I think I went to a Yorkshire Novice finals there in 98. It was in a little hut. No microphone, the MC had to shout his head off.

bennie wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 00:24

MasterG wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 11:23

Teddy's Toupee wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 09:50

Mick's last name is spelt Cordon. He's my brother-in-law's cousin and has been drinking heavily for a number of years. I hadn't heard he'd died, though.

I always thought Mick surname was Cordon, that's how it was spelt on a early program I had. Only met him once and spent the entire evening with him.


https://uk.gofundme.com/f/local-boxing-legend-headstone

Damn shame about Mick. Watched him against a young Derek Angol at York Hall in 1987. It was a typical Terry Lawless match: Mick didn't stand a chance and was cut and under pressure when it was stopped in the fourth round. He was seriously overweight even as a fighter but I think he was just built that way, ala Andy Ruiz.

This is Mick cordons youngest son, I'd just like to let people know that yes my dad did drink heavily for a while but had not drank for over a year before he passed away, him passing had nothing to do with alcohol nor was it anything self inflicted. After retiring he ran his gym with over 50 carded boxers producing multiple area and aba champions and helped keep uncountable young lads off the streets and out of trouble. Especially the 3 men who proudly wear his name. My dad was a brilliant man, his heart was bigger than his hands and would step in that ring with anyone to feed his family. Even when the odds were against him. I wish more people knew his story.