BoxRec

RScarf1 wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 07:59

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 22:23Because Rankings are just part of Boxing.

If they matter to you, you should pay attention to who actually does credible rankings and quit worrying about Boxrec's. How many times can you recognize that something doesn't make sense in a rankings system and still pretend it matters?

If you want credible rankings here you go.

https://tbrb.org/rankings

The Transnational Boxing Rankings Board rankings are no better than BoxRec. The TBRB P4P list has Canelo No. 1. And now BoxRec has removed Tyson Fury from their ratings, so now Canelo is P4P No. 1 on BoxRec too! Isn't this great?! Canelo loses and he actually moves up to P4P No. 1 because BoxRec finally believes Fury is going to retire (and I believe it too because he doesn't want to fight Joshua or Usyk and he said so). What does it take for Canelo to drop in the P4P ratings? What if he has another loss in his next fight? Will that be the straw that broke the camel's back?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:12

RScarf1 wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 07:59

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 22:23Because Rankings are just part of Boxing.

If they matter to you, you should pay attention to who actually does credible rankings and quit worrying about Boxrec's. How many times can you recognize that something doesn't make sense in a rankings system and still pretend it matters?

If you want credible rankings here you go.

https://tbrb.org/rankings

The Transnational Boxing Rankings Board rankings are no better than BoxRec. The TBRB P4P list has Canelo No. 1. And now BoxRec has removed Tyson Fury from their ratings, so now Canelo is P4P No. 1 on BoxRec too! Isn't this great?! Canelo loses and he actually moves up to P4P No. 1 because BoxRec finally believes Fury is going to retire (and I believe it too because he doesn't want to fight Joshua or Usyk and he said so). What does it take for Canelo to drop in the P4P ratings? What if he has another loss in his next fight? Will that be the straw that broke the camel's back?

I don’t think Canelo should be the pound-for-pound number one anymore.

But to be fair, he was the undisputed champion at 168lbs that tried and failed to defeat arguably the best fighter competing at 175lbs.

The Mexican was competing outside of his natural habitat. So, he shouldn’t slide down the pound-for-pound rankings much.

That said, who should take the number one slot?

Terence Crawford’s resume is weak at 147lbs and he has been very inactive.

Don’t get me wrong, Bud is a great fighter, but he hasn’t done very much within the last 4½ years and we have to start applying expiry dates on feats at some point when considering the current number one pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.

So I guess we’re left with Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue.

I personally favour the Japanese fighter, because Usyk’s only credible victory within the last 3½ years came against Anthony Joshua (who wasn’t considered the best in his own weight class and definitely wasn’t a pound-for-pounder at the time of their fight).

In terms of Canelo, I’d probably rate him 4th in the pound-for-pound rankings, behind Inoue, Usyk and Crawford, though I'd be sorely tempted to rate him above Bud (i.e. 3rd).

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:22

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:12

RScarf1 wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 07:59

The Transnational Boxing Rankings Board rankings are no better than BoxRec. The TBRB P4P list has Canelo No. 1. And now BoxRec has removed Tyson Fury from their ratings, so now Canelo is P4P No. 1 on BoxRec too! Isn't this great?! Canelo loses and he actually moves up to P4P No. 1 because BoxRec finally believes Fury is going to retire (and I believe it too because he doesn't want to fight Joshua or Usyk and he said so). What does it take for Canelo to drop in the P4P ratings? What if he has another loss in his next fight? Will that be the straw that broke the camel's back?

I don’t think Canelo should be the pound-for-pound number one anymore.

But to be fair, he was the undisputed champion at 168lbs that tried and failed to defeat arguably the best fighter competing at 175lbs.

The Mexican was competing outside of his natural habitat. So, he shouldn’t slide down the pound-for-pound rankings much.

That said, who should take the number one slot?

Terence Crawford’s resume is weak at 147lbs and he has been very inactive.

Don’t get me wrong, Bud is a great fighter, but he hasn’t done very much within the last 4½ years and we have to start applying expiry dates on feats at some point when considering the current number one pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.

So I guess we’re left with Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue.

I personally favour the Japanese fighter, because Usyk’s only credible victory within the last 3½ years came against Anthony Joshua (who wasn’t considered the best in his own weight class and definitely wasn’t a pound-for-pounder at the time of their fight).

In terms of Canelo, I’d probably rate him 4th in the pound-for-pound rankings, behind Inoue, Usyk and Crawford, though I'd be sorely tempted to rate him above Bud (i.e. 3rd).

How bout Spence?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:40

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:22

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:12
I don’t think Canelo should be the pound-for-pound number one anymore.

But to be fair, he was the undisputed champion at 168lbs that tried and failed to defeat arguably the best fighter competing at 175lbs.

The Mexican was competing outside of his natural habitat. So, he shouldn’t slide down the pound-for-pound rankings much.

That said, who should take the number one slot?

Terence Crawford’s resume is weak at 147lbs and he has been very inactive.

Don’t get me wrong, Bud is a great fighter, but he hasn’t done very much within the last 4½ years and we have to start applying expiry dates on feats at some point when considering the current number one pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.

So I guess we’re left with Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue.

I personally favour the Japanese fighter, because Usyk’s only credible victory within the last 3½ years came against Anthony Joshua (who wasn’t considered the best in his own weight class and definitely wasn’t a pound-for-pounder at the time of their fight).

In terms of Canelo, I’d probably rate him 4th in the pound-for-pound rankings, behind Inoue, Usyk and Crawford, though I'd be sorely tempted to rate him above Bud (i.e. 3rd).

How bout Spence?

I like to rate pound-for-pound rankings using recent feats (i.e. what they’ve achieved within the last three years).

The next time Errol Spence Jr. steps foot inside the ring in September, he would have only won two fights within the previous three years, with those wins coming against Danny Garcia and Yordenis Ugas.

That’s not enough activity nor good enough wins in my book, regardless the legitimate reasons for him being unable to compete, in order for him to be deemed as the new pound-for-pound ruler.

The simple question is this… has Errol Spence Jr. achieved more within the last two or three years than Canelo, Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue?

I say no, but I suspect others may disagree.

RScarf1 wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 20:27

gregregegg wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 20:23

RScarf1 wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 08:01 This was a statement that I made on a thread titled Stick a fork in Gennady. This was after the first Golovkin vs. Canelo fight. Here is my statement: "Stick a fork in Canelo because it's all downhill from here. He's the type of guy who is going to suck at boxing in his early 30s." I guess my prediction is coming true.

This is such a bad prediction to be claiming a victory on.

You claimed all down hill from here In late 2017 and Canelo went on to have one of the best 4.5 years I have ever seen...

You're right. I was wrong about his career after the first Golovkin fight. But now, here he is at 31 years old and he looked older than Bivol and they are both the same age.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 10:24

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:40

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:22

How bout Spence?

I like to rate pound-for-pound rankings using recent feats (i.e. what they’ve achieved within the last three years).

The next time Errol Spence Jr. steps foot inside the ring in September, he would have only won two fights within the previous three years, with those wins coming against Danny Garcia and Yordenis Ugas.

That’s not enough activity nor good enough wins in my book, regardless the legitimate reasons for him being unable to compete, in order for him to be deemed as the new pound-for-pound ruler.

The simple question is this… has Errol Spence Jr. achieved more within the last two or three years than Canelo, Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue?

I say no, but I suspect others may disagree.

So Usyk has a whole one more fight in three years than Errol Spence. Not only that, his victories are:

AJ - Great victory
Derick Chisora - a glorified gatekeeper
Chazz Witherspoon - Who?

Neither Chisora nor Witherspoon is even better than Danny Garcia.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:12

RScarf1 wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 07:59

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 22:23Because Rankings are just part of Boxing.

If they matter to you, you should pay attention to who actually does credible rankings and quit worrying about Boxrec's. How many times can you recognize that something doesn't make sense in a rankings system and still pretend it matters?

If you want credible rankings here you go.

https://tbrb.org/rankings

The Transnational Boxing Rankings Board rankings are no better than BoxRec. The TBRB P4P list has Canelo No. 1. And now BoxRec has removed Tyson Fury from their ratings, so now Canelo is P4P No. 1 on BoxRec too! Isn't this great?! Canelo loses and he actually moves up to P4P No. 1 because BoxRec finally believes Fury is going to retire (and I believe it too because he doesn't want to fight Joshua or Usyk and he said so). What does it take for Canelo to drop in the P4P ratings? What if he has another loss in his next fight? Will that be the straw that broke the camel's back?

I don’t think Canelo should be the pound-for-pound number one anymore.

But to be fair, he was the undisputed champion at 168lbs that tried and failed to defeat arguably the best fighter competing at 175lbs.

The Mexican was competing outside of his natural habitat. So, he shouldn’t slide down the pound-for-pound rankings much.

That said, who should take the number one slot?

Terence Crawford’s resume is weak at 147lbs and he has been very inactive.

Don’t get me wrong, Bud is a great fighter, but he hasn’t done very much within the last 4½ years and we have to start applying expiry dates on feats at some point when considering the current number one pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.

So I guess we’re left with Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue.

I personally favour the Japanese fighter, because Usyk’s only credible victory within the last 3½ years came against Anthony Joshua (who wasn’t considered the best in his own weight class and definitely wasn’t a pound-for-pounder at the time of their fight).

In terms of Canelo, I’d probably rate him 4th in the pound-for-pound rankings, behind Inoue, Usyk and Crawford, though I'd be sorely tempted to rate him above Bud (i.e. 3rd).

RScarf1 wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 07:59

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 22:23Because Rankings are just part of Boxing.

If they matter to you, you should pay attention to who actually does credible rankings and quit worrying about Boxrec's. How many times can you recognize that something doesn't make sense in a rankings system and still pretend it matters?

If you want credible rankings here you go.

https://tbrb.org/rankings

The Transnational Boxing Rankings Board rankings are no better than BoxRec. The TBRB P4P list has Canelo No. 1. And now BoxRec has removed Tyson Fury from their ratings, so now Canelo is P4P No. 1 on BoxRec too! Isn't this great?! Canelo loses and he actually moves up to P4P No. 1 because BoxRec finally believes Fury is going to retire (and I believe it too because he doesn't want to fight Joshua or Usyk and he said so). What does it take for Canelo to drop in the P4P ratings? What if he has another loss in his next fight? Will that be the straw that broke the camel's back?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 10:43

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 10:24

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 09:40
I like to rate pound-for-pound rankings using recent feats (i.e. what they’ve achieved within the last three years).

The next time Errol Spence Jr. steps foot inside the ring in September, he would have only won two fights within the previous three years, with those wins coming against Danny Garcia and Yordenis Ugas.

That’s not enough activity nor good enough wins in my book, regardless the legitimate reasons for him being unable to compete, in order for him to be deemed as the new pound-for-pound ruler.

The simple question is this… has Errol Spence Jr. achieved more within the last two or three years than Canelo, Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue?

I say no, but I suspect others may disagree.

So Usyk has a whole one more fight in three years than Errol Spence. Not only that, his victories are:

AJ - Great victory
Derick Chisora - a glorified gatekeeper
Chazz Witherspoon - Who?

Neither Chisora nor Witherspoon is even better than Danny Garcia.

According to betting odds, Anthony Joshua was rated as being 75% certain of defeating Oleksandr Usyk, with the Ukrainian underdog only given a 28% chance of victory.

Therefore, Oleksandr Usyk was considered a massive underdog when he dominated Anthony Joshua to become the unified world heavyweight champion.

Usyk also added the WBA, WBO, IBF & IBO world heavyweight titles to his undisputed cruiserweight championship straps.

In my mind, that win alone trumpts Spence Jr’s victories over Danny Garcia and Yordenis Ugas, in bouts he was considered the heavy betting favourite.

You're more than welcome to disagree, because it's not as if pound-for-pound rankings are that important in life.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:07

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 10:43

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 10:24

So Usyk has a whole one more fight in three years than Errol Spence. Not only that, his victories are:

AJ - Great victory
Derick Chisora - a glorified gatekeeper
Chazz Witherspoon - Who?

Neither Chisora nor Witherspoon is even better than Danny Garcia.

According to betting odds, Anthony Joshua was rated as being 75% certain of defeating Oleksandr Usyk, with the Ukrainian underdog only given a 28% chance of victory.

Therefore, Oleksandr Usyk was considered a massive underdog when he dominated Anthony Joshua to become the unified world heavyweight champion.

Usyk also added the WBA, WBO, IBF & IBO world heavyweight titles to his undisputed cruiserweight championship straps.

In my mind, that win alone trumpts Spence Jr’s victories over Danny Garcia and Yordenis Ugas, in bouts he was considered the heavy betting favourite.

You're more than welcome to disagree, because it's not as if pound-for-pound rankings are that important in life.

All Usyk has is AJ. Neither of his other victories were against good opponents. Spence came back from a serious car accident to dominate Danny Garcia. Garcia was never dominated like that. After that Spence stops Ugas, who no one has ever dominated or stopped.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:53

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:07

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 10:43
According to betting odds, Anthony Joshua was rated as being 75% certain of defeating Oleksandr Usyk, with the Ukrainian underdog only given a 28% chance of victory.

Therefore, Oleksandr Usyk was considered a massive underdog when he dominated Anthony Joshua to become the unified world heavyweight champion.

Usyk also added the WBA, WBO, IBF & IBO world heavyweight titles to his undisputed cruiserweight championship straps.

In my mind, that win alone trumpts Spence Jr’s victories over Danny Garcia and Yordenis Ugas, in bouts he was considered the heavy betting favourite.

You're more than welcome to disagree, because it's not as if pound-for-pound rankings are that important in life.

All Usyk has is AJ. Neither of his other victories were against good opponents. Spence came back from a serious car accident to dominate Danny Garcia. Garcia was never dominated like that. After that Spence stops Ugas, who no one has ever dominated or stopped.

There’s no denying that Errol Spence Jr. is a fantastic fighter and his ability to recover from his recent serious injuries is remarkable.

However, I don’t think he’s done enough to be considered the very best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.

In my mind Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue are more deserving candidates to be owning that status.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree, because the pound-for-pound rankings are mythical in nature and not to be taken too seriously.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 12:47I would imagine these current rankings haven't been updated yet with the result of the Bivol-Canelo fight. If you're doing rankings in a credible way, it's not going to be a computer program, and it's not going to be done instantaneously after a result.

RScarf1 wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 21:34

gilgamesh wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 12:47I would imagine these current rankings haven't been updated yet with the result of the Bivol-Canelo fight. If you're doing rankings in a credible way, it's not going to be a computer program, and it's not going to be done instantaneously after a result.

They were updated. As I stated, BoxRec’s P4P list had Fury No. 1, Bivol No. 2, Golovkin No. 3, and Canelo No. 4. That reflects the fact that Bivol defeated Canelo. Within one day, the list was changed to Fury No. 1, Canelo No. 2, Bivol No. 3, and Golovkin No. 4, so Canelo went ahead of Bivol for reasons that are unknown to me. Now with Fury removed from the ratings due to retirement, the P4P ratings are Canelo No. 1, Bivol No. 2, Golovkin No. 3, Crawford No. 4, Spence No. 5, Usyk No. 6, Joshua No. 7, etc. Whether it is a computer program doing the ratings or people deciding, the ratings loses some credibility when Canelo is still rated No. 1 P4P after a loss and one place ahead of the boxer who just defeated him. And I know that some people may say that he fought out of his weight class, so it doesn't count as much. However, it was only one weight class higher and Canelo had been a world champion at light heavyweight when he defeated Kovalev. You can debate endlessly about who you think is P4P No. 1. I think you can make a legitimate case for Bivol, Golovkin, Crawford, Spence, or Usyk being P4P No. 1. However, Canelo should not be considered P4P No. 1 right now because he lost to Bivol and the same goes for Joshua because he lost to Usyk.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:53

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:07

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 10:43
According to betting odds, Anthony Joshua was rated as being 75% certain of defeating Oleksandr Usyk, with the Ukrainian underdog only given a 28% chance of victory.

Therefore, Oleksandr Usyk was considered a massive underdog when he dominated Anthony Joshua to become the unified world heavyweight champion.

Usyk also added the WBA, WBO, IBF & IBO world heavyweight titles to his undisputed cruiserweight championship straps.

In my mind, that win alone trumpts Spence Jr’s victories over Danny Garcia and Yordenis Ugas, in bouts he was considered the heavy betting favourite.

You're more than welcome to disagree, because it's not as if pound-for-pound rankings are that important in life.

All Usyk has is AJ. Neither of his other victories were against good opponents. Spence came back from a serious car accident to dominate Danny Garcia. Garcia was never dominated like that. After that Spence stops Ugas, who no one has ever dominated or stopped.

There’s no denying that Errol Spence Jr. is a fantastic fighter and his ability to recover from his recent serious injuries is remarkable.

However, I don’t think he’s done enough to be considered the very best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.

In my mind Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue are more deserving candidates to be owning that status.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree, because the pound-for-pound rankings are mythical in nature and not to be taken too seriously.

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 May 2022, 04:03Usyk, indeed deserves to be no 1 p4p.

Evander wrote: ↑12 May 2022, 01:02Are you ok

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 May 2022, 16:53 Canelo facing Usyk is a win-win situation for the Mexican regardless the outcome.

He’ll receive a massive payday and huge kudos from fight fans regardless as to whether he wins or loses.

And as much as this may upset some people, Canelo is far more experienced and has faced superior opposition than Usyk has.

If the bout happens early next year, then Usyk will be 36 years of age, without having fought around the 200lbs mark for more than four years.

Of course, Usyk would be the favourite, but Canelo only needs to be competitive to secure his status as a dead cert all-time-great.

Imagine if this bout actually happens, there’ll inevitably be some mentally-deranged people accusing the Mexican of ducking the likes of Charlo, Andrade and Benavidez!!!

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:53

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:07

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 10:43
According to betting odds, Anthony Joshua was rated as being 75% certain of defeating Oleksandr Usyk, with the Ukrainian underdog only given a 28% chance of victory.

Therefore, Oleksandr Usyk was considered a massive underdog when he dominated Anthony Joshua to become the unified world heavyweight champion.

Usyk also added the WBA, WBO, IBF & IBO world heavyweight titles to his undisputed cruiserweight championship straps.

In my mind, that win alone trumpts Spence Jr’s victories over Danny Garcia and Yordenis Ugas, in bouts he was considered the heavy betting favourite.

You're more than welcome to disagree, because it's not as if pound-for-pound rankings are that important in life.

All Usyk has is AJ. Neither of his other victories were against good opponents. Spence came back from a serious car accident to dominate Danny Garcia. Garcia was never dominated like that. After that Spence stops Ugas, who no one has ever dominated or stopped.

There’s no denying that Errol Spence Jr. is a fantastic fighter and his ability to recover from his recent serious injuries is remarkable.

However, I don’t think he’s done enough to be considered the very best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.

In my mind Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue are more deserving candidates to be owning that status.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree, because the pound-for-pound rankings are mythical in nature and not to be taken too seriously.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑20 Aug 2022, 21:42Usyk and Inoue have a resume filled with nothing. Neither should be in the top 10 based on resume. Laughable. Just bc it’s a list based on opinion doesn’t mean you can just pluck anyone in and say it’s your opinion. You need to have some kind of basis for it numbnuts. Man, you just suck at this. Why can’t you just watch football and leave this stuff to the men. You belong in the kitchen with the girls and dishes while the men undo the pants and watch tv on the couch.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑20 Aug 2022, 21:42

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:53

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:07

All Usyk has is AJ. Neither of his other victories were against good opponents. Spence came back from a serious car accident to dominate Danny Garcia. Garcia was never dominated like that. After that Spence stops Ugas, who no one has ever dominated or stopped.

There’s no denying that Errol Spence Jr. is a fantastic fighter and his ability to recover from his recent serious injuries is remarkable.

However, I don’t think he’s done enough to be considered the very best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.

In my mind Oleksandr Usyk or Naoya Inoue are more deserving candidates to be owning that status.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree, because the pound-for-pound rankings are mythical in nature and not to be taken too seriously.

Usyk and Inoue have a resume filled with nothing. Neither should be in the top 10 based on resume. Laughable. Just bc it’s a list based on opinion doesn’t mean you can just pluck anyone in and say it’s your opinion. You need to have some kind of basis for it numbnuts. Man, you just suck at this. Why can’t you just watch football and leave this stuff to the men. You belong in the kitchen with the girls and dishes while the men undo the pants and watch tv on the couch.