Terence wrote:Woods landed enough shots to give Roy a swollen eye.
Andrade just got a beating of his life, but it was Kessler who came out with marks on his face.
You are in the, frankly, untenable position of trying to defend the version of Roy who was KO'd in consecutive fights plus was gun-shy in the third Tarver fight and eked out a points loss as some kind of a triumph.
Irrelevant piece of text, attempt to avoid discussing the points I presented.
I have watched the early rounds of the Johnson fight and Glen clearly landed shots and enough of them
Such as? Round, time?
Look, defence is not just about lying on the ropes with your gloves cupped around your ears for round after round then getting iced. A really good 'ropes' fighter will be able to roll, block, parry and counter. Jones could not do this.
Round 1. HBO timer.
2:31 Jones throws left hook to the ribs.
2:30 Jones parries left hook. Jones ducks low, hiding his head behind his shoulder when Johnson attempts to land a left hook (it slides over Jones' back and shoulder).
2:29 Johnson throwing left hook to the body, but it lands on Jones' elbow instead.
2:27 As Johnson comes in, Jones catches him with right uppercut right on the chin. Counter left hook from Johnson misses as Jones half-blocks it with his glove.
2:26 Left hook to the body from Johnson misses as Jones falls back on the ropes to avoid it.
2:24 Right hook from Johnson in a downward trajectory, Jones puts his right glove in front of his chin, lifts his left arm high to block the punch and cover his head additionally behind left shoulder.
2:23 Jones ducks low as Johnson attempts to land a left hook to the head, but it is blocked by Jones' shoulder. Johnson follows it up with a left hook to the body, but Jones covers his right side with his arm, so that the punches lands on his back instead (illegal punch).
2:21 Jones puts his hands in front of him and Johnson attempts to land a left hook to the head, but Jones lifts his right shoulder to make the punch slip to the side and not land.
2:19 Jones attempts to throw right hook to the head, but Johnson blocks it with his crab defense. Johnson tries to throw left hook to the body, but Jones' side is again covered with his arm, so the punch lands far on his back (again illegal punch). Jones throws a left uppercut, but Jonhson blocks it.
2:18 Johnson throws a right hook, but Jones twists his body clockwise and leans to the left and backwards a little so it doesn't land cleanly. Johnson throws a left hook, but Jones falls on the ropes and puts his hands in front of him, making the punch miss.
2:16 Jones lands a right uppercut to the head.
2:15 Johnson counter with left hook over the top, but Jones leans to the left and raises his right shoulder to make the punch slip over the top. Johnson lands a left hook far on the back (illegal punch), although it doesn't land cleanly.
2:14 Jones lands a left uppercut to the head of Johnson.
2:12 Johnson throws left hook to the body, but Jones as usual covers his side with his right arm and Johnson has no choice but to land it on his back instead (yet another illegal punch).
2:11 Jones lands a left hook to the head over Johnson's block.
2:08 Johnson lands a right hook to the side of Jones' head as Jones bends lower and leans to the right from it, so it doesn't land cleanly.
2:07 Johnson lands a left hook to the body.
2:06 Johnson throws a left uppercut to the head, but Jones partially blocks it with his left glove. Johnson follows it up with left hook to the head, but Jones lifts his shoulder and turns his head to the left making he punch slip without any damage.
2:04 Johnson throws a right hook to the head, and with Jones ducking low and leaning to the right, it lands on Jones' neck behind the ear (rabbit punch).
2:03 Johnson lands a left hook to the neck, behind Jones' block (which Jones puts up to cover his chin).
2:02 Johnson lands a left hook far to the back of Jones (illegal punch).
2:01 Johnson attempts to throw 2 or 3 punches, but as Jones leans to the right behind the block and ducks slightly, Glen doesn't finish throwing any of the punches, not wanting to waste them.
2:00 Johnson throws a right hook to the head, but Jones lifts his left arm and his shoulder and leans to the right making the punch slip and land only slightly behind his ear.
1:59 Johnson throws a left hook to the head, but Jones blocks it and leans to the left away from it.
This is just half a minute of the 1st round (most action-packed of all), where Jones is fighting off the ropes.
How did Jones counter his opponents better than Ali? Ali countered Foreman adequately and, despite his limitations, even that Big George was more of a fighter than the woeful Tarver and the hardworking Johnson. You say Ali looked terrible, well he never once looked unconscious.
When did Muhammad Ali turn 35 (same age as Jones was in fights with Tarver and Johnson)? But for his ring-wars I'll cut it by a couple years, alright. Fights from 1975 and on, in which of them did Ali show adequate defense and countering off the ropes? Maybe the Leon Spinks fight (he only turned 36, that's just several months away from when Jones faced Johnson)?
Tarver put out a punch and it landed and hurt Jones, it was as 'lucky' as Oliver McCall working on the right hand counter in training and icing Lewis with it.
As usual avoiding to even consider the way the punch was thrown. Did you see Tarver work on turning to the left, folding up to a jab and throwing an awkward overhand right hook from that position? Your attempts to avoid discussing exact things and cover your ignorance by generalized statements is laughable. Just admit that you have no counter-arguments to what I say, and I leave you alone.
Ali's latter-day 'bum of the month club' also saw him face a puncher like Shavers
A guy who had basically no boxing skills at all, third-tier contender only slightly better than Jean-Pierre Coopman or Richard Dunn kind of guys when boxing is concerned.
and the always tough, for Ali in particular, Norton.
A second-tier contender, who accidentally squeaked into IBHOF based on "the greatest" having troubles with him. Should Doug Jones or Henry Cooper get in there too?
Jones, as he often did, picked Johnson out as the least resistance path back to a title and got hammered.
Let's see. Who did Ali pick for his path back to a title? Former middleweight Jimmy Ellis, then Buster Mathis, then Jurgen Blin, Mac Foster, almost 35-years old George Chuvalo, rematch with Jerry Quarry he just beat a year and a half prior, Alvin Lewis37-years old Floyd Patterson, light-heavyweight Bob Foster, Joe Bugner, then Ring's #9 with padded-record (who was the best fighter Norton beat prior to meeting with Ali?) stood in the way of his carefully-planned comeback and almost ruined it not once, but twice, where he only managed to get past him with the help of the blind judges. What a stellar opposition did he pick for his comeback path, indeed! Those are facts.
