Marvin Hagler KO3 Roy Jones

boxbible · Post by **boxbible** » 01 Mar 2007, 01:30

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 01 Mar 2007, 12:57

Kenny wrote:yeah Marvin knocked out Roys father back in the day around that same time both Roy Sr and Jr were also sparring with Sugar Ray Leonard

And he would have done the same to Junior at his peak also. Dont worry about that.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 01 Mar 2007, 13:19

So what??.....A peak Roy Jones....Marvin Hagler would never touch. The plodding stumbling soutpaw would be made to look silly. Same as the moving, boxing Ray Leonard did to him. Difference is Roy Jones was a natural MW, and may have been able to put the hurt on Hagler with a couple of decent flurries.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 01 Mar 2007, 14:53

The Hagler that faced Leonard I think would be soundly beat by a peak Jones. Too fast and elusive. He also hit quite hard, hard enough to trouble Marvin. But The Hagler that mauled Minter would really be a tough test for any middle, faster, relentless and so damn fit and tough. I don't think Jones would handle the relentless attacks and pace that Hagler would bring.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 01 Mar 2007, 14:59

See that is where these Hagler guys are delusional in there thinking. Anyone with half a brain KNEW Hagler was going to KILL Minter. Minter was exactly the same as Hagler except he was British, which made him even worse as a fighter.. Minter stunk while Hagler could at least punch, and was always in shape. Minter was an undeserving champion....who did he ever beat? Vito? Big deal.....

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 01 Mar 2007, 15:42

Ringsider, I think your problem is that you are actually biased against Hagler. You dislike him, so it clouds your opinions on him. I do not rate him as the greatest and think he would have lost to Robinson and maybe Monzon. But at his peak he was a ball of energy, tough as hell, busy as hell and a chin of steel. He did lack speed and footwork to beat the likes of Robinson. But I think Jones although brilliant and fast and technical, lacked the real mental toughness and chin of a Hagler and even though Marvin did not have real one punch KO power, he could really hurt and would not let Jones rest once he nails him. The problem with these two is that I see Jones losing the fight more than Hagler winnng. Roy's lack of real grit and heart see a peak Hagler get him fro 11-14 rds. If Jones possessed Robinson's chin and amazing stamina and business, he beats Hagler...but he DON'T

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 01 Mar 2007, 16:26

As one of the 8 trainers said in article about DLH-Mayweather, Floyd has been fighting guys who tried to pressure him all of his life. Same with RJJ, he has faced so many fighters who attempted to pressure him, it's silly to think he couldn't deal with it. Especially that Hagler wasn't even a swarmer, and his slow plodding forward would play in Jones' favour, exactly the kind of fighters Roy looked at his best against.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 01 Mar 2007, 16:44

walshb wrote:Ringsider, I think your problem is that you are actually biased against Hagler. You dislike him, so it clouds your opinions on him. I do not rate him as the greatest and think he would have lost to Robinson and maybe Monzon. But at his peak he was a ball of energy, tough as hell, busy as hell and a chin of steel. He did lack speed and footwork to beat the likes of Robinson. But I think Jones although brilliant and fast and technical, lacked the real mental toughness and chin of a Hagler and even though Marvin did not have real one punch KO power, he could really hurt and would not let Jones rest once he nails him. The problem with these two is that I see Jones losing the fight more than Hagler winnng. Roy's lack of real grit and heart see a peak Hagler get him fro 11-14 rds. If Jones possessed Robinson's chin and amazing stamina and business, he beats Hagler...but he DON'T

Not only is he biased against Hagler, he is also stupid enough to claim that British fighters are bad per se. With fools like him around, it is no wonder Lennox used to say he got more pleasure hurting yanks than anyone else.

Hagler, would have made Jones run the way Witter ran from Judah. In fact the same way Mayweather runs from anyone that enjoys a fight, since he tasted what the weight drained JL Castillo had.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 01 Mar 2007, 19:25

ringsider wrote:The plodding stumbling soutpaw would be made to look silly.

Name me ONE boxer who made Hagler "look silly"?
For the record, I don't view SRL's efforts of running for 2:30 of each round and then opening up with a flurry at the end of each round as valid.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 01 Mar 2007, 19:28

Andy Mac wrote:Hagler, would have made Jones run the way Witter ran from Judah.

Well, Roy "ran from" Toney for 12 rounds and still smacked him around pretty good. You seem to think going toe-to-toe is the only way to win a fight.

I think prime Hagler vs. prime RJJ at 160 or 168 (or maybe a ctachweight between there) would have been a cracking fight - but as much as I admire Hagler I think the problems he had with Leonard tell us a lot about how this mythical matchup might go - MW Jones (Jr) was just as fast and slick as Leonard, but with genuine murderous punching power. It would've been an interesting matchup of styles and skills.

But getting back to the original thread topic - RJ Senior was clearly out of his depth against the Marvelous one. But Senior's skills were just a tad below Junior's. (Andy Mac's claims notwithstanding).

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 01 Mar 2007, 19:57

If were talking about the version that fought Leonard you have to go with Jones Dare I say it by KO?

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 01 Mar 2007, 20:06

Victor*KC wrote:If were talking about the version that fought Leonard you have to go with Jones Dare I say it by KO?

KO, not sure about that - Hagler had a great beard, and was probably a mite harder to catch flush than some of Jones' middleweight KO victims, even the best of whom (Malinga, Tate, etc) were a notch or two below MMH. But a UD over an outspeeded Hagler frustrated at fighting a slippery guy who came at him from all kinds of weird angles - I could see that. I don't think Jones would've tried his occasional let-himself-get-backed-into-the-ropes stuff against a guy as skilled as Hagler - you notice he didn't do any of that against Hopkins or Toney.

The biggest question w.r.to Jones in this matchup would be the chin - we never knew whether he could take a real hard shot in his MW/SMW days because he was so hard to hit flush. but if any middleweight could've given him a real chin check, it would've been Hagler.

Dammit, Roy Jones senior - couldn't you have started your family about 8 years sooner?

Interesting...looking at RJS' record, he was 0-6 (!) going in vs. Hagler, who was 32-2 at that point. Whoever Roy senior's manager was, must've been smoking crack. Roy senior actually went 12-1 after the Hagler loss, obviously against somewhat lesser opposition. But to throw an 0-6 guy in against a 32-2 who'd already beaten some top guys like Worm Monroe and Cyclone Hart? Madness.

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 01 Mar 2007, 21:11

Eric the Viking wrote:
Victor*KC wrote:If were talking about the version that fought Leonard you have to go with Jones Dare I say it by KO?
KO, not sure about that - Hagler had a great beard, and was probably a mite harder to catch flush than some of Jones' middleweight KO victims, even the best of whom (Malinga, Tate, etc) were a notch or two below MMH. But a UD over an outspeeded Hagler frustrated at fighting a slippery guy who came at him from all kinds of weird angles - I could see that. I don't think Jones would've tried his occasional let-himself-get-backed-into-the-ropes stuff against a guy as skilled as Hagler - you notice he didn't do any of that against Hopkins or Toney.

The biggest question w.r.to Jones in this matchup would be the chin - we never knew whether he could take a real hard shot in his MW/SMW days because he was so hard to hit flush. but if any middleweight could've given him a real chin check, it would've been Hagler.

Dammit, Roy Jones senior - couldn't you have started your family about 8 years sooner?

Interesting...looking at RJS' record, he was 0-6 (!) going in vs. Hagler, who was 32-2 at that point. Whoever Roy senior's manager was, must've been smoking crack. Roy senior actually went 12-1 after the Hagler loss, obviously against somewhat lesser opposition. But to throw an 0-6 guy in against a 32-2 who'd already beaten some top guys like Worm Monroe and Cyclone Hart? Madness.

Well that is true Hagler had a great chin how many fighters can stay on their feet and say they took the best Hearns and Mugabi had to offer not many.. But after the fight with Mugabi you can see Hagler looking a tad slower.. even before that fought alot of people were saying his best day's were behind him Jones hit real hard at 160/168 and I can definately see him getting a late Stoppage..

JC · Post by JC » 01 Mar 2007, 21:25

Victor*KC wrote:Well that is true Hagler had a great chin how many fighters can stay on their feet and say they took the best Hearns and Mugabi had to offer not many.. But after the fight with Mugabi you can see Hagler looking a tad slower.. even before that fought alot of people were saying his best day's were behind him Jones hit real hard at 160/168 and I can definately see him getting a late Stoppage..

Well to KO even that version of Hagler at some point your gonna have to commit and start landing big combinations and then really press home your advantage. It possible he had the power but I just don't see Roy taking that risk with someone as dangerous as Hagler. I can definately see Jones winning a decision over the Hagler that SRL fought but no KO IMO.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 02 Mar 2007, 02:18

Thankfully there are others who see this fight going somewhat the way I see it going. Of course you have the Hagler blind who think he was all of that. Had Hagler ever fought someone of Jones caliber, who moved and punched like Jones, Hagler would have been in all sorts of trouble. HAGLER COULD NOT DEAL WITH MOVEMENT. Sadly there was nobody in the MW division like that at the time. If there would have been we would never have had to endure the tedious plodding MW reign of the slow foot in the bucket plodding southpaw Hagler. Sadly there really weren't any MW worth much in the early 80's.

If there had been, Hagler would have never been anything. SRL proved that.!!

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 02 Mar 2007, 09:16

walshb wrote:Not only is he biased against Hagler, he is also stupid enough to claim that British fighters are bad per se. With fools like him around, it is no wonder Lennox used to say he got more pleasure hurting yanks than anyone else.

Well said, you took the words out of my mouth.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 02 Mar 2007, 09:18

Eric the Viking wrote: even the best of whom (Malinga, Tate, etc) were a notch or two below MMH.

Dont you mean a notch or ten?

nobudius · Post by **nobudius** » 02 Mar 2007, 11:08

With RJJ's limited residency at 160, I would DEFNITELY favor Marvin if we were to pit each other prime for prime..... at 160.

Anything above that would have to favor RJJ...well, b/c Marvin never fought above middleweight. There is quite a large, experience factor with this at....160.

Hagler took an uppercut FLUSH from Mugabi in the 4th round of their bout, & it didn't buckle him at all. Unless he was going waaay above his limitations & facing a Bob Foster type of firepower (who took out the great chinned Dick Tiger), I cannot see Hagler ever being knocked out.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 02 Mar 2007, 11:25

All you guys and your nonsense examples of Haglers ability to take a punch....what rubbish.....all those he took punches from in his BIG fights were either blown up welterweights, or light MW moving up to fight him and try for the title. Examples are Hearns, Mugabi, Duran....etc.etc.etc. He made a name for himself by beating up the little guys.

That doesn't make him a great MW.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 02 Mar 2007, 11:43

ringsider wrote:All you guys and your nonsense examples of Haglers ability to take a punch....what rubbish.....all those he took punches from in his BIG fights were either blown up welterweights, or light MW moving up to fight him and try for the title. Examples are Hearns, Mugabi, Duran....etc.etc.etc. He made a name for himself by beating up the little guys. That doesn't make him a great MW.

Thomas Hearns was 4 inches taller than Hagler and won belts at Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight. John Mugabi was fighting at MW for years before he fought Hagler and had KO'd every single MW he faced up until Hagler. Both fighters had awesome power at MW.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 02 Mar 2007, 12:00

ringsider wrote:All you guys and your nonsense examples of Haglers ability to take a punch....what rubbish.....all those he took punches from in his BIG fights were either blown up welterweights, or light MW moving up to fight him and try for the title. Examples are Hearns, Mugabi, Duran....etc.etc.etc. He made a name for himself by beating up the little guys. That doesn't make him a great MW.

Have you ever seen any of Hagler's fights ringlicker? You continuously talk bollox about him on every single post where he gets mentioned.

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 02 Mar 2007, 12:13

J-C wrote:
Victor*KC wrote:Well that is true Hagler had a great chin how many fighters can stay on their feet and say they took the best Hearns and Mugabi had to offer not many.. But after the fight with Mugabi you can see Hagler looking a tad slower.. even before that fought alot of people were saying his best day's were behind him Jones hit real hard at 160/168 and I can definately see him getting a late Stoppage..
Well to KO even that version of Hagler at some point your gonna have to commit and start landing big combinations and then really press home your advantage. It possible he had the power but I just don't see Roy taking that risk with someone as dangerous as Hagler. I can definately see Jones winning a decision over the Hagler that SRL fought but no KO IMO.

Your right Jones never really showed his killer instinct, But I think late in the fight he will stun Hagler and swarm all over him and start pouring the punishment on him enough for the REF to stop the fight..

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 02 Mar 2007, 12:14

Of course I have sseen his fights, though painful to watch a guy that some consider and ATG plod though off balance, stumbling through a weak MW division of the early eighties (Minter, Vito,Sibson,Hamsho,etc) and then when he faces someone who knew how to fight and box, he gets his ass handed to him.....and PRESTO he is gone!! All the Hagler fans claim he wasn't the same Hagler when he got beat by SRL. Well I beg to differ. He was the same old plodding foot in the bucket banger he always was. SRL saw this, and knew how to exploit it. If you didn't stand in front of Hagler, he could not hit you. He had no foot work!! Hagler was over rated. He just happened to be there when the MW division was at one of its weakest points.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 02 Mar 2007, 13:24

Can you name one person of note who shares your views about Hagler ?

nobudius · Post by **nobudius** » 02 Mar 2007, 15:24

ringsider wrote:All you guys and your nonsense examples of Haglers ability to take a punch....what rubbish.....all those he took punches from in his BIG fights were either blown up welterweights, or light MW moving up to fight him and try for the title. Examples are Hearns, Mugabi, Duran....etc.etc.etc. He made a name for himself by beating up the little guys. That doesn't make him a great MW.

It doesn't matter if Mugabi was a bantamweight-that uppercut was brutal.