BoxRec

LancashireLoyal wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

LancashireLoyal wrote:so does anyone think this has anything to do with getting Terrence Crawford into a position to get that WBO strap from Horn?Assuming he comes through Indongo then moves up?Is this the plan from Arum all along?

Why would that be a plan? Crawford certainly would take the belt from many easily. If you want to go the conspiracy route, this would be more about having another good money fight for many so he doesn't have to get his ass kicked by Crawford.

was Jeff Horn not mandatory though? i dont see how they will even get a rematch straight away

No, he was definitely a voluntary. He has a rematch clause I'm sure, all he needs for a rematch is to want one.

gilgamesh wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:

squiggy wrote:Unless a lot of people are listening to fights on radio broadcasts, I don't see where commentator bias has the great hypnotic sway some people want to give it.

It does though. It can even affect judges. I was at the IBF Convention and a few professional judges were swayed by Atlas' commentary while watching a fight from about a year ago. They had to score the fight each round as a test to see if they would be influenced by his commentary. Atlas was in favor of the boxer who was doing worse and knocked down, but yet won a split decision. Perhaps one or two judges at that fight heard Atlas at ringside.

If you're sitting ringside watching the damn fight and you're swayed by commentary you shouldn't be a judge. If I was a commissioner and a judge came to me saying "Oh my score was bad because I was listening to Teddy" he'd be out of a job.

LOL, Yeah I agree. I'm not a professional judge and I scored the fight correctly at the IBF Convention even though I heard Atlas' biased commentary. It was as if he was watching a different fight. He should not be commentating anymore. The vast majority of people in the room were IBF judges and a few of them were influenced and the IBF said beforehand that IBF judges are the most respected in the world.

RScarf1 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:
It does though. It can even affect judges. I was at the IBF Convention and a few professional judges were swayed by Atlas' commentary while watching a fight from about a year ago. They had to score the fight each round as a test to see if they would be influenced by his commentary. Atlas was in favor of the boxer who was doing worse and knocked down, but yet won a split decision. Perhaps one or two judges at that fight heard Atlas at ringside.

If you're sitting ringside watching the damn fight and you're swayed by commentary you shouldn't be a judge. If I was a commissioner and a judge came to me saying "Oh my score was bad because I was listening to Teddy" he'd be out of a job.

LOL, Yeah I agree. I'm not a professional judge and I scored the fight correctly at the IBF Convention even though I heard Atlas' biased commentary. It was as if he was watching a different fight. He should not be commentating anymore. The vast majority of people in the room were IBF judges and a few of them were influenced and the IBF said beforehand that IBF judges are the most respected in the world.

I'm pretty sure the WBA said that WBA judges are the most respected in the world.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
If you're sitting ringside watching the damn fight and you're swayed by commentary you shouldn't be a judge. If I was a commissioner and a judge came to me saying "Oh my score was bad because I was listening to Teddy" he'd be out of a job.

LOL, Yeah I agree. I'm not a professional judge and I scored the fight correctly at the IBF Convention even though I heard Atlas' biased commentary. It was as if he was watching a different fight. He should not be commentating anymore. The vast majority of people in the room were IBF judges and a few of them were influenced and the IBF said beforehand that IBF judges are the most respected in the world.

I'm pretty sure the WBA said that WBA judges are the most respected in the world.

Get outta here, I was told that the WBC said the WBC judges are the most respected in the world...oh well...guess we'll never know. That's why we need 4 champions

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

LancashireLoyal wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Why would that be a plan? Crawford certainly would take the belt from many easily. If you want to go the conspiracy route, this would be more about having another good money fight for many so he doesn't have to get his ass kicked by Crawford.

was Jeff Horn not mandatory though? i dont see how they will even get a rematch straight away

No, he was definitely a voluntary. He has a rematch clause I'm sure, all he needs for a rematch is to want one.

I'm not sure what you think that proves. This was a voluntary fight. He was not a mandatory challenger.

I didn't know he was #1, though they just moved him up to #1 after the fight was announced. I'm pretty sure it was a voluntary defense with a rematch clause, but you could be right. Even if you are, why would that prevent a rematch?

Uncle Bob Arum was behind this one I think. I've been saying it for awhile, he's trying to create another superstar with the end of Manny's career. That's all that his one was. Why in the F'ng world would they pick out a fighter that has only been a pro for 2 years and give him a home title fight like this? It makes no sense to me. I think that Manny won but i think that the results were already decided prior to the fight.

I bet Horn surprised a lot of people.
Definitely faster than PAC.
And no matter what the arm chair enthusiasts scored the fight, it was way more entertaining than I expected.
I'm glad the missus talked me into getting the PPV.
I have a hunch the Roach game plan was to let Horn punch himself out, not having gone the distance like Manny has for the last 8 years. Then take Horn out in the later rounds. Manny came on strong after 8, but Horn was tough and hung in there.
Bob Sherriden had it a draw as far as I can remember and for the first time in years, I agreed with his scoring.

caldo2025 wrote:Uncle Bob Arum was behind this one I think. I've been saying it for awhile, he's trying to create another superstar with the end of Manny's career. That's all that his one was. Why in the F'ng world would they pick out a fighter that has only been a pro for 2 years and give him a home title fight like this? It makes no sense to me. I think that Manny won but i think that the results were already decided prior to the fight.

You see that UFC last week? The terrible and controversial stoppage in the main event?

Horn is now ranked #1 above Thurman, Garcia, Spence etc...
Boxrec, the numbers don't lie

KiwiRider wrote:Horn is now ranked #1 above Thurman, Garcia, Spence etc...
Boxrec, the numbers don't lie

Points wise.

It is embarrassing that anyone thinks Horn won that fight. They are a real problem in boxing, these mentally impaired fans lying to themselves imagining what they saw distorting anything to perpetuate the outcome they wanted. Truth does not matter. Embarrassing.

SFW wrote:It is embarrassing that anyone thinks Horn won that fight. They are a real problem in boxing, these mentally impaired fans lying to themselves imagining what they saw distorting anything to perpetuate the outcome they wanted. Truth does not matter. Embarrassing.

What is more embarrassing are the people who cannot admit that this was a close fight with several close rounds.

Haven't been around these forums much... just stopping in to add a comment, you guys might like Eye On The Ring, it's a good place to share/store/discuss round by round fan cards. Having the cards to look at makes for interesting discussions. Also a lot of guys like it just as a place to store their cards online.

http://eyeonthering.com/boxing/manny-pa ... -jeff-horn

ZoeCatherine wrote:Haven't been around these forums much... just stopping in to add a comment, you guys might like Eye On The Ring, it's a good place to share/store/discuss round by round fan cards. Having the cards to look at makes for interesting discussions. Also a lot of guys like it just as a place to store their cards online.

http://eyeonthering.com/boxing/manny-pa ... -jeff-horn

We have our own RBR section, ZCat.

SFW wrote:It is embarrassing that anyone thinks Horn won that fight. They are a real problem in boxing, these mentally impaired fans lying to themselves imagining what they saw distorting anything to perpetuate the outcome they wanted. Truth does not matter. Embarrassing.

How did you score it?

DannyMCR wrote:

SFW wrote:It is embarrassing that anyone thinks Horn won that fight. They are a real problem in boxing, these mentally impaired fans lying to themselves imagining what they saw distorting anything to perpetuate the outcome they wanted. Truth does not matter. Embarrassing.

How did you score it?

Not taking into account the constant deliberate fouling Horn did, which he should have lost multiple points for at the least, because their was no deductions, I had it 115-112 Manny Pacquiao. And that was giving horn the benefit of every doubt since we all know hometown cooking is rampant in boxing close rounds would go his way. Manny by 2-3 points is right. Who agrees?

SFW wrote:

DannyMCR wrote:

SFW wrote:It is embarrassing that anyone thinks Horn won that fight. They are a real problem in boxing, these mentally impaired fans lying to themselves imagining what they saw distorting anything to perpetuate the outcome they wanted. Truth does not matter. Embarrassing.

How did you score it?

Not taking into account the constant deliberate fouling Horn did, which he should have lost multiple points for at the least, because their was no deductions, I had it 115-112 Manny Pacquiao. And that was giving horn the benefit of every doubt since we all know hometown cooking is rampant in boxing close rounds would go his way. Manny by 2-3 points is right. Who agrees?

I had 116-111 Pac

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

SFW wrote:

DannyMCR wrote: How did you score it?

Not taking into account the constant deliberate fouling Horn did, which he should have lost multiple points for at the least, because their was no deductions, I had it 115-112 Manny Pacquiao. And that was giving horn the benefit of every doubt since we all know hometown cooking is rampant in boxing close rounds would go his way. Manny by 2-3 points is right. Who agrees?

I had 116-111 Pac

And that score makes much more sense than the trash we got

SFW wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

SFW wrote:
Not taking into account the constant deliberate fouling Horn did, which he should have lost multiple points for at the least, because their was no deductions, I had it 115-112 Manny Pacquiao. And that was giving horn the benefit of every doubt since we all know hometown cooking is rampant in boxing close rounds would go his way. Manny by 2-3 points is right. Who agrees?

I had 116-111 Pac

And that score makes much more sense than the trash we got

You had the same score as I did. I almost never have given a 10-8 without an official KD. Can you not see how many people legitimately scored the 9th a 10-9 round? If we would have done the same our scores would have been 115-113 Pac. That is just a two round swing to reach the scores that two judges had.

Are you making the argument that there were not two very close rounds?

Even given our 115-112 Pac scores a two round swing gives Horn a 114-113 win. I gave Pac 10 and 11 but I gave Horn 12. Those were all close rounds that could have gone any which way. If someone gave Horn two of three of those rounds and did not give Pac 10-8 for the 9th, they would have it a draw.

I still am of the opinion that Pac should have gotten the W, but it was far too close with far too many very close rounds to call it a robbery, no matter the venue.

What makes it look like Top Rank had the fix in to milk a trilogy here is the 117-111 card and the fact not ONE judge had it for Pac. Nor did one judge give him a 10-8 round for the 9th. Let's say you had a 114-113 and 115-113 Horn and a 115-112 Pac, Horn SD winner. I still think people would be upset, but the decision seems more believable. The majority of people on my boxing FB (fighters/promoters/trainers/people I encountered) all think Pac won. This many people can't be wrong.

As for milking Pac/Horn into a trilogy, Pac didn't want to fight Crawford that would keep the money in house. He wasn't getting another Mayweather bout. It made no sense for Top Rank to go near Spence. How could Arum milk out the very last dollars from Pac's career? A trilogy in Australia. They sold 50K+ in tickets this time, next fight probably 70K. More Aussies will buy the PPV. It will probably be a PPV here in the states. An easy way to get two more high earning fights by Manny for Top Rank.

armageto wrote:What makes it look like Top Rank had the fix in to milk a trilogy here is the 117-111 card and the fact not ONE judge had it for Pac. Nor did one judge give him a 10-8 round for the 9th. Let's say you had a 114-113 and 115-113 Horn and a 115-112 Pac, Horn SD winner. I still think people would be upset, but the decision seems more believable. The majority of people on my boxing FB (fighters/promoters/trainers/people I encountered) all think Pac won. This many people can't be wrong.

As for milking Pac/Horn into a trilogy, Pac didn't want to fight Crawford that would keep the money in house. He wasn't getting another Mayweather bout. It made no sense for Top Rank to go near Spence. How could Arum milk out the very last dollars from Pac's career? A trilogy in Australia. They sold 50K+ in tickets this time, next fight probably 70K. More Aussies will buy the PPV. It will probably be a PPV here in the states. An easy way to get two more high earning fights by Manny for Top Rank.

Good post.

armageto wrote:What makes it look like Top Rank had the fix in to milk a trilogy here is the 117-111 card and the fact not ONE judge had it for Pac. Nor did one judge give him a 10-8 round for the 9th. Let's say you had a 114-113 and 115-113 Horn and a 115-112 Pac, Horn SD winner. I still think people would be upset, but the decision seems more believable. The majority of people on my boxing FB (fighters/promoters/trainers/people I encountered) all think Pac won. This many people can't be wrong.

As for milking Pac/Horn into a trilogy, Pac didn't want to fight Crawford that would keep the money in house. He wasn't getting another Mayweather bout. It made no sense for Top Rank to go near Spence. How could Arum milk out the very last dollars from Pac's career? A trilogy in Australia. They sold 50K+ in tickets this time, next fight probably 70K. More Aussies will buy the PPV. It will probably be a PPV here in the states. An easy way to get two more high earning fights by Manny for Top Rank.

I have to admit, this is a very thought provoking post. I usually pay the 'fixed fight ' posts no mind. But, I can see some plausibility here.

Hey, you gotta put water in the basement..

I'm not sure this was an all-out robbery. For the most part, it was a sloppy fight. Sloppy fights can lead to strange scoring.

Hope Pacquiao retires after that performance though. I could tell after the first two minutes that he was shot, by the end of round 2 I was sure of it . I had a mental scorecard of 115-112 Pacquiao. It was a sloppy fight.. I can easily buy the fact that a ringside judge could've went the other way on 1 round.. with 2 not being an immense stretch.

The 117-111 Horn card was hideous though. You have to give Pac round 9, which means he scored 9 of the other 11 rounds to Horn.. wow.