BoxRec

Also... You don't need 20 years experience to master strong fundamentals... Some kids have them coming out of the amateurs...very few of course.

And you can have 20 years of experience and still have all kinds of technical flaws... Much of it has to do with the coaching you get.

Can you explain why you have Holyfield and Tyson in the top 100 but not Lennox Lewis. Holyfield had 10 career losses
Tyson has not beaten any stand out opponents even before jail
Lewis beat both guys
Lewis avenged all losses
Lewis was undisputed champion.....

Smudge_83 wrote: ↑08 Apr 2018, 04:45 Can you explain why you have Holyfield and Tyson in the top 100 but not Lennox Lewis. Holyfield had 10 career losses
Tyson has not beaten any stand out opponents even before jail
Lewis beat both guys
Lewis avenged all losses
Lewis was undisputed champion.....

In my 2018 list, I got Lennox Lewis over Mike Tyson. But, not ahead of the great Evander Holyfield.

Ali and Louis at 49 and 50? No way, my friend. These two gave too much for the sport. Louis retired in 1951, about 67 years ago. And he still remembered by boxing fans ever since. I don't see that happening with too many boxers. Ali? It's not even a consideration. Every time we talk about a brand new great heavyweight, we always compare him to the Greatest or the Brown Bomber. Truly, two of the 10 best fighters pound per pound of all time.

In order for Ali or Louis leave the top 10 pound per pound all time, TIME HAS TO GO BY, and super great fighters in the coming years got to unseat them. Well, some time has passed by. We are in the year 2018. So, lots of things have changed and happened. Like the great Floyd Mayweather, Jr. I believe that he unseated Ali and Louis pound per pound all time. What Floyd has done in boxing would be hard to match.

Ali and Louis at 49 and 50? No way, my friend. These two gave too much for the sport. Louis retired in 1951, about 67 years ago. And he still remembered by boxing fans ever since. I don't see that happening with too many boxers. Ali? It's not even a consideration. Every time we talk about a brand new great heavyweight, we always compare him to the Greatest or the Brown Bomber. Truly, two of the 10 best fighters pound per pound of all time.

In order for Ali or Louis leave the top 10 pound per pound all time, TIME HAS TO GO BY, and super great fighters in the coming years got to unseat them. Well, some time has passed by. We are in the year 2018. So, lots of things have changed and happened. Like the great Floyd Mayweather, Jr. I believe that he unseated Ali and Louis pound per pound all time. What Floyd has done in boxing would be hard to match.

You were making sense until the Mayweather BS.
Ali was clearly Top 10 and Louis is borderline.

When I consider the greatest boxers ever, I not only look at their skills and achievements, but the opponents they faced.

My top 10?

1. Marvin Hager: no fighter, save for maybe Robinson, faced the kind of competition Hagler did. Sibson and Hearns in their primes, Hamsho, Mugabi, Duran, Minter --and he dominated. He had an iron chin, could box and slug it out, good footwork, and tremendous determination.

2. Sugar Ray Robinson: perfect skills, great endurance, and enough power to drop a guy with one shot. Fought everyone, Zivic, Lamotta, etc.

3. Khaosai Galaxy: this guy completely dominated his division and destroyed anyone who challenged him. 19 title defenses, 16 by KO. Only lost once early in his career by decision. Great chin and the best body puncher in history.

4. Gennady Golovkin: yep, I put him all the way up here. The guy is feared. Rock hard chin, knockout power in both hands, strong as a bull, great endurance. It took a juiced-up Alvarez to get a draw from him, but I suspect the second time around, GGG will drop him like a bad habit. Golovkin has fought all comers and dominated: Stevens, Macklin, Geale, Monroe Jr. , etc.

5. Willie Pep: probably the best defensive fighter ever, whose record speaks for itself. The guy was 62-0 with 8 title defense before Angott finally beat him on a decision. He then proceeded to go 134-1-1 which makes Chavez's overblown record look like nothing.

6. Mike Tyson: in his prime, Iron Mike was the best heavyweight to ever lace up gloves. Maybe Ali could have gotten a decision from him by running for 15 rounds, but no one could overpower him or intimidate him. When Rooney was still training him, Mike had a stiff jab and explosive power in both hands. He was a student of boxing and was far more strategic than people give him credit for. He was like a bigger, stronger, Dempsey.

7. Thomas Hearns: before facing Hagler, the Hitman was 40-1, and had destroyed Duran, outpointed Benitez, and wrecked Cuevas. Tommy wasn't scared of anyone, and always showed up for a war. He had probably the best right hand in history, to go with excellent boxing skills and good footwork.

8. Floyd Mayweather Jr.: I can't stand the guy, but I respect his ability. His skills are some of the best boxing has ever seen, and he is the best defensive fighter since Pep. He has fought a lot of great fighters.

9. Joe Louis: there wasn't anything flashy or complicated about Joe--he just had knockout power in both hands, determination, and was fearless. His record speaks for itself.

10. Marcel Cerdan: my surprise pick. In his first 109 fights he was never beaten, only disqualified twice for low blows, and in one of those fights, he knocked his opponent down 5 times. Possessing a wicked right hand, stiff jab, a solid chin, he was a pressure fighter who never let his opponent get away. He destroyed Zale, and only lost his title because of an injury in the fight with Lamotta. Most think that he would have knocked out Jake in the rematch. The guy was practically invincible in his day, and is most certainly the best of the European champions.


Ali just barely misses my top 10. While he was one of the greats, he was often reckless and unpredictable in the ring, and tended to fight down to his competition. He was lazy with body blows and conditioning (sometimes).

Honorable mentions go to Duran, Greb, Monzon, Fighting Harada, Armstrong, Leonard, Arguello and Pryor

I can't be critical of any of your work. That's a lot of effort you put in. I'm just surprised that Rudy Lubbers didn't make it. JK!

Here's my top 25 :

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Willie Pep
7. Sam Langford
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Jack Johnson
11. Benny Leonard
12. Jimmy Wilde
13. Joe Gans
14. Roberto Duran
15. Gene Tunney
16. Archie Moore
17. George Foreman
18. Sugar Ray Leonard
19. Julio Cesar Chavez
20. Mike Tyson
21. Evander Holyfield
22. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
23. Manny Pacquiao
24. Stanley Ketchel
25. Sandy Saddler

I gave mine a shot a few years ago and have tweaked it every now and again. I don't have exact criteria and I'm sure some picks are baffling to some. These lists are subjective and we all have out biases right? I generally like to rate relative to their era and I do value technique and skill level highly and often it's my tie-breaker when I see two or more guys as being fairly equal. I do value long, dominant reigns and being undisputed or at least majority unified (more for modern day), I don't really value multi-weights unless it's multi-unified weights. I think it's important to put perspective on certain era's like unique achievements. More fighters are retiring unbeaten these days as opposed to the past so without necessarily cheapening the achievement that much it just shows that it's a little easier to navigate your career without a loss these days. A long dominant reign as the one true champion means a lot more than a long reign these days for example Archie Moore's reign is obviously better than Calzaghe's or Lopez'. It's true we tend to read too much into modern day fighters losses but it's also true that some folks tend to read too much into non-title bout losses in past era's or early and late career losses. The quality of competition in title reigns and the records there is often where the meat of a resume is but not in all cases. Like I said it's not an exact science and though some may ridicule my list or some picks if you post yours there's stuff I and others will also tear down.

Some of the fighters I know a lot more than others and obviously we have a tendency to scrutinize certain fighters more. The less footage on a guy we can either go too overboard on how good he was or too much the other way if he lost or looked bad. I tend to respect what was written in the history books and by historians and eye witnesses and see how they talked about the fighters compared to one's that came before and after.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Willie Pep
5. Sam Langford
6. Roberto Duran
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Eder Jofre
9. Benny Leonard
10. Carlos Monzon
11. Gene Tunney
12. Mickey Walker
13. Muhammad Ali
14. Tony Canzoneri
15. Joe Louis
16. Sugar Ray Leonard
17. Archie Moore
18. Carlos Ortiz
19. Jimmy Wilde
20. Joe Gans
21. Jimmy McLarnin
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Kid Gavilan
24. Ike Williams
25. Bob Fitzsimmons
26. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
27. Pernell Whitaker
28. Packey McFarland
29. Charles Burley
30. Tommy Loughran
31. Jose Napoles
32. Alexis Arguello
33. Tommy Hearns
34. Roy Jones
35. Billy Conn
36. Julio Cesar Chavez
37. Evander Holyfield
38. Floyd Mayweather
39. Ruben Olivares
40. Manny Pacquaio
41. Emile Griffith
42. Dick Tiger
43. Joe Walcott (the original)
44. Terry McGovern
45. Michael Spinks
46. Jack Johnson
47. Fighting Harada
48. Jack Britton
49. Ted "Kid" Lewis
50. Bernard Hopkins
51. Tommy Ryan
52. Kid Chocolate
53. Juan Manuel Marquez
54. Holman Wiliams
55. Salvador Sanchez
56. George Dixon
57. Pancho Villa
58. Lou Ambers
59. Tiger Flowers
60. Rocky Marciano
61. Wilfredo Gomez
62. Larry Holmes
63. Jack Dempsey (Nonpareil)
64. Bob Montgomery
65. Beau Jack
66. Marcel Cerdan
67. Jake LaMotta
68. Joe Brown
69. Charles McCoy
70. Abe Attell
71. Luis Rodriguez
72. Jimmy Bivins
73. Lloyd Marshall
74. Mike McCallum
75. Azumah Nelson
76. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
77. Mike Gibbons
78. Fidel La Barba
79. Battling Battalino
80. Felix Trinidad
81. Jim Driscoll
82. Jack "Kid" Berg
83. Wilfred Benitez
84. Carlos Zarate
85. Joe Calzaghe
86. Freddie Steele
87. Johnny Dundee
88. Freddie Welsh
89. Marco Antonio Barrera
90. Erik Morales
91. Panama Al Brown
92. Ricardo Lopez
93. Gene Fullmer
94. Vicente Saldivar
95. Lennox Lewis
96. Manuel Ortiz
97. Nino Benvenutti
98. Harold Johnson
99. Maxie Rosenbloom
100. James Toney

I realize I left Barney Ross off who Is have in the top 20. I’ll edit that soon.

Honorable mentions that almost don't feel right placing outside the top 100 - George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, Pete Herman, Ad Wolgast, Benny Lynch, Eusebio Pedroza, Miguel Canto, Young Corbett III, Sammy Angott, Jack Delaney, Aaron Pryor, Joey Giardello, Tony Zale, Jack Dillon, Carmen Basilio, Pascual Perez, Niccolino Locche and many others I'm sure.

This list is better than rendonnunez, which was better than Silas. Not as good as mine though.

Very good list Chris

elmersalsa wrote: ↑05 May 2017, 22:24

Felix "Tito" Trinidad.....Was VERY HOT at the beginning of superstardom. Was supposed to unseat greats like Wilfredo Gomez, Carlos Ortiz and Wilfred Benitez at the rate that he wad going. But somebody by the name of Bernard Hopkins made him see reality. He really wasn't that good.

Trinidad was undefeated at welterweight.

Very nice list. If I had to try and put this list together it would be a nightmare and I would want paid for it. Looking back when I was in my twenties this list would have been a lot easier. Good job!

After last night, Usyk surely has to break in to everybody's top 100...