BoxRec

ironbeard wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 21:44

sturm vogel wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 19:15 Under the rules of evidence, a video carries more weight (truth) than still photos. Post a video of Kovalev hitting Ward DIRECTLY on the protective cup and your case will be re-opened and reviewed. Until then, as usual, your case is dismissed. Ward is found guilty of fighting outside of boxing rules.

The entire fight is on YouTube, bottom feeder. Do your own research.

Good for you that you use the name "Ironbeard" as you sure like to take a lot of punishment.

The poster above brought a video into this thread's exchange. Only equal or better evidence disproves it. you brought in stills Poor boy. By the best evidence rule, video is superior. Why do you like punishment so much?

Regardles, if Kovalev was as badass as they make him out to be, he would've beaten Ward to a pulp low blow or not.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 22:28 Regardles, if Kovalev was as badass as they make him out to be, he would've beaten Ward to a pulp low blow or not.

Who made this out? Ward was the betting favourite.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 22:28 Regardles, if Kovalev was as badass as they make him out to be, he would've beaten Ward to a pulp low blow or not.

IKSRTFO, it's NOT what this thread is about...

sturm vogel wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 22:19

ironbeard wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 21:44
The entire fight is on YouTube, bottom feeder. Do your own research.

Good for you that you use the name "Ironbeard" as you sure like to take a lot of punishment.

The poster above brought a video into this thread's exchange. Only equal or better evidence disproves it. you brought in stills Poor boy. By the best evidence rule, video is superior. Why do you like punishment so much?

This is not a debate league, precious. This is all subjective opinion. The fight is available for all to see on YouTube; the entire fight. You can stop action, rewind, etc. Kovalev got owned, plain and simple. He claimed to be coming to finish Ward. He claimed to be bringing “WAR.”

He lost the war, fair and square, and the ref saved him from a comprehensive, career threatening beat down.

If you have an opinion, state it. Otherwise, go back to putting people to sleep with your logic 101 and debate league nonsense.

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:12

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 22:28 Regardles, if Kovalev was as badass as they make him out to be, he would've beaten Ward to a pulp low blow or not.

IKSRTFO, it's NOT what this thread is about...

True. This thread is about butthurt Ward haters ignoring the fact that every fighter does borderline illegal things in the ring. Your completely biased vid conveniently leaves out Kovalev’s low blows, head locks, rabbit punching, and faking injury.

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:25

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:12

IKSRTFO, it's NOT what this thread is about...

True. This thread is about butthurt Ward haters ignoring the fact that every fighter does borderline illegal things in the ring. Your completely biased vid conveniently leaves out Kovalev’s low blows, head locks, rabbit punching, and faking injury.

one has to be desperate using this terminology and this line of argumentation, very very desperate...again, it's NOT about haters and fanboys...

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:31

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:25
True. This thread is about butthurt Ward haters ignoring the fact that every fighter does borderline illegal things in the ring. Your completely biased vid conveniently leaves out Kovalev’s low blows, head locks, rabbit punching, and faking injury.

one has to be desperate using this terminology and this line of argumentation, very very desperate...again, it's NOT about haters and fanboys...

I’d call him delusional.

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:31

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:25
True. This thread is about butthurt Ward haters ignoring the fact that every fighter does borderline illegal things in the ring. Your completely biased vid conveniently leaves out Kovalev’s low blows, head locks, rabbit punching, and faking injury.

one has to be desperate using this terminology and this line of argumentation, very very desperate...again, it's NOT about haters and fanboys...

Yes it is. You posted a completely biased video, consciously to demonize a professional athlete who has never been disqualified in competition while ignoring the “borderline” activity in the same fight by his opponent, who just happens to be your countryman.

Fair enough. It is your subjective opinion. But do not feign objectivity on this subject. You have none.

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 07:03

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:31
one has to be desperate using this terminology and this line of argumentation, very very desperate...again, it's NOT about haters and fanboys...

Yes it is. You posted a completely biased video, consciously to demonize a professional athlete who has never been disqualified in competition while ignoring the “borderline” activity in the same fight by his opponent, who just happens to be your countryman.

Fair enough. It is your subjective opinion. But do not feign objectivity on this subject. You have none.

here we go again..you've NEVER learned to argue...you should probably stick to your "thongs" threads

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 07:19

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 07:03
Yes it is. You posted a completely biased video, consciously to demonize a professional athlete who has never been disqualified in competition while ignoring the “borderline” activity in the same fight by his opponent, who just happens to be your countryman.

Fair enough. It is your subjective opinion. But do not feign objectivity on this subject. You have none.

here we go again..you've NEVER learned to argue...you should probably stick to your "thongs" threads

Throwing out a biased video, ignoring the context of the entire fight is properly arguing?

Your opinion is that Ward uses borderline illegal tactics? Or, is it that Ward is just a cheater? Let’s get it straight.

If you are going to use that video as proof of whatever the hell you are attempting to say then you are clearly biased. Do you have proof that Ward consciously sought to hit Kovalev low?

I have watched that fight very closely, the vast majority of everything Ward threw that people continue to whine about was on the belt. Kovalev also landed low. Kovalev also landed on the belt. Kovalev headlocked regularly. Kovalev rabbit punched regularly. Kovalev faked injury repeatedly. Kovalev held far more than Ward.

Kovalev got what he deserved. He may be a descendent of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Froch is one of my favorite boxers. He is obviously still bothered by his defeat at the hands of Ward and his post career success.

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 07:42

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 07:19

here we go again..you've NEVER learned to argue...you should probably stick to your "thongs" threads

Throwing out a biased video, ignoring the context of the entire fight is properly arguing?

it's not a biased video, it's a logical continuation of the whole fight...

Your opinion is that Ward uses borderline illegal tactics? Or, is it that Ward is just a cheater? Let’s get it straight.

I wouldn't exclude both

If you are going to use that video as proof of whatever the hell you are attempting to say then you are clearly biased. Do you have proof that Ward consciously sought to hit Kovalev low?

surely I will continue posting this video ...I can't read his mind but following his career I wouldn't exclude it

I have watched that fight very closely, the vast majority of everything Ward threw that people continue to whine about was on the belt. Kovalev also landed low. Kovalev also landed on the belt. Kovalev headlocked regularly. Kovalev rabbit punched regularly. Kovalev faked injury repeatedly. Kovalev held far more than Ward.

I've seen a different picture

Kovalev got what he deserved. He may be a descendent of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

matter of opinion

Froch is one of my favorite boxers. He is obviously still bothered by his defeat at the hands of Ward and his post career success.

irrelevant

My answers are highlighted..

incidentally, I'm not a fan of lengthy discussions rehashing the same arguments over and over again...I'm sure my position on Ward is perfectly clear...I'll leave it at that...over and out..

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:12

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 22:28 Regardles, if Kovalev was as badass as they make him out to be, he would've beaten Ward to a pulp low blow or not.

IKSRTFO, it's NOT what this thread is about...

If Carl Froch was as badass or as good as he thinks, he would've bullied Ward back and beaten him. Ward was backing Froch back most of that fight and Froch let him.

greg wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 08:37

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 07:42
Throwing out a biased video, ignoring the context of the entire fight is properly arguing?

it's not a biased video, it's a logical continuation of the whole fight...

Your opinion is that Ward uses borderline illegal tactics? Or, is it that Ward is just a cheater? Let’s get it straight.

I wouldn't exclude both

If you are going to use that video as proof of whatever the hell you are attempting to say then you are clearly biased. Do you have proof that Ward consciously sought to hit Kovalev low?

surely I will continue posting this video ...I can't read his mind but following his career I wouldn't exclude it

I have watched that fight very closely, the vast majority of everything Ward threw that people continue to whine about was on the belt. Kovalev also landed low. Kovalev also landed on the belt. Kovalev headlocked regularly. Kovalev rabbit punched regularly. Kovalev faked injury repeatedly. Kovalev held far more than Ward.

I've seen a different picture

Kovalev got what he deserved. He may be a descendent of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

matter of opinion

Froch is one of my favorite boxers. He is obviously still bothered by his defeat at the hands of Ward and his post career success.

irrelevant

My answers are highlighted..

In other words, Kovalev’s fouling does not count.

Very convenient.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 18:38

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 21:02 I've never denied that he looked like a beaten man, but that doesn't mean he was beaten cleanly. Could've, would've, should've, but didn't.

Just like the Krusher could've/should've KO'd Ward in the 1st fight, but he didn't. Even if you had him winning, it's his fault for even letting Ward back in the fight after having him hurt so early. And Ward was right in that Kovalev didn't look for ways to improve from the first to the 2nd fight. He made excuses why he should've won, while Ward actually looked for ways to make the 2nd fight easier.

Kovalev has no one to blame for having those losses to Ward except himself. And never taking responsibility showed how vulnerable he really was opening him up for Alvarez to demostrate that.

Kovalev lost those fights because he showed he had no mid or inside game and instead of improving upon that, he made excuses, and that's why he will be beaten again.

He's already been beaten again. By Alvarez. Who actually beat him cleanly...unlike Ward.

Carl Froch was an exciting, passionate action packed fighter whereas Andre Ward was a cold cynical professional prepared to use any means he could to eke out a victory.

Many of Froch's fights can be watched again and enjoyed but it's difficult to say that about any of Ward's.

Froch's argument that Ward was dirty I think is just another example of differing approaches between UK and US fighters going back to at least Cooper v Clay, Bruno v Tyson etc.

The Marquess of Queensbury has always seemed to have had less of an influence across the waters.

In future UK fighters must learn all the tricks of their US counterparts without waiting vainly for referees to act. Period.

They've done it with PED use, they can do it with ungentlemanly ring tactics too. Who knows, on a good day the referees warnings may never come, they usually don't, and even if they do are usually soon forgotten.

Unless your name is Orlando Salido. But then his was an extreme case, and his opponent didn't disappear back into obscurity.

"He was fighting a full welterweight, getting hit in the balls all night, in only his second pro bout, and he still almost came back to win." - (Machine Levine, Punch Lines Podcast)

But at least Lomachenko showed the right approach, vowing to learn from the experience, and nothing similar has occurred again.

As they say, 'Protect yourself at all times', and as they should say more often, 'Be prepared to fight fire with fire'. This is professional boxing, as I'm sure Carl will understand.

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:18

sturm vogel wrote: ↑08 Sep 2019, 22:19

Good for you that you use the name "Ironbeard" as you sure like to take a lot of punishment.

The poster above brought a video into this thread's exchange. Only equal or better evidence disproves it. you brought in stills Poor boy. By the best evidence rule, video is superior. Why do you like punishment so much?

This is not a debate league, precious. This is all subjective opinion. The fight is available for all to see on YouTube; the entire fight. You can stop action, rewind, etc. Kovalev got owned, plain and simple. He claimed to be coming to finish Ward. He claimed to be bringing “WAR.”

He lost the war, fair and square, and the ref saved him from a comprehensive, career threatening beat down.

If you have an opinion, state it. Otherwise, go back to putting people to sleep with your logic 101 and debate league nonsense.

You're very first response was not to counter with anything to refute but to insult . You already lost and whatever point you are trying to make is lost. Kid, you need to learn what you call "logic 101". But, keep it up. it is fun to read you continue in your confused anger....

The ref in the second Ward/Kovalev fight stood in plain view of direct shots to Kovalev's cup and did not give Kovalev time to recover nor did he take a point from Ward; instead, he just stopped the fight. Doesn't matter how good a fighter is, none can take shots directly on the cup and keep fighting.

sturm vogel wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 20:54 The ref in the second Ward/Kovalev fight stood in plain view of direct shots to Kovalev's cup and did not give Kovalev time to recover nor did he take a point from Ward; instead, he just stopped the fight. Doesn't matter how good a fighter is, none can take shots directly on the cup and keep fighting.

Kovalev was being hurt with head shots even before that. Ward's jab was snapping Kovalev's head straight back which was a bad sign that was realized in the Alvarez fight.

If Kovalev really wanted to win the 2nd fight, he should've trained to be better to win in the first place vs making excuses and drinking up a storm. He should've responded like Holyfield did when Tyson bit him.

sturm vogel wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 20:51

ironbeard wrote: ↑09 Sep 2019, 06:18
This is not a debate league, precious. This is all subjective opinion. The fight is available for all to see on YouTube; the entire fight. You can stop action, rewind, etc. Kovalev got owned, plain and simple. He claimed to be coming to finish Ward. He claimed to be bringing “WAR.”

He lost the war, fair and square, and the ref saved him from a comprehensive, career threatening beat down.

If you have an opinion, state it. Otherwise, go back to putting people to sleep with your logic 101 and debate league nonsense.

You're very first response was not to counter with anything to refute but to insult . You already lost and whatever point you are trying to make is lost. Kid, you need to learn what you call "logic 101". But, keep it up. it is fun to read you continue in your confused anger....

One more time, since you think that you are in a high school club of some sort; nobody wins or loses here. This is a forum where people post their opinions.

The only ones who lost are Froch, Kovalev x 2, Kessler, Dawson and 28 other boxers.

Ward is 32-0, according to the rules, unless he decides to unretire. The evidence is his record and his complete fight library.

ironbeard wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 09:28 The only ones who lost are Froch, Kovalev x 2, Kessler, Dawson and 28 other boxers.

Some of them lost due to corrupt and/or incompetent judges. You are just refusing to accept the obvious.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 10:46

ironbeard wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 09:28 The only ones who lost are Froch, Kovalev x 2, Kessler, Dawson and 28 other boxers.

Some of them lost due to corrupt and/or incompetent judges. You are just refusing to accept the obvious.

They lost because they lost. The only close fight of his career was Kovalev I (I was rooting for Kovalev), which could have gone either way, but went to Ward close, which is the way I saw it.

The rest weren’t close. But please continue with your objective posts about how Ward was never popular but he was an icon and the boxing world cheated for him from the time he was 9 years old.

ironbeard wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 10:58

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 10:46
Some of them lost due to corrupt and/or incompetent judges. You are just refusing to accept the obvious.

They lost because they lost.

No, they lost because refs allowed continuous blatant fowling by Ward. Kovalev "lost" in their first fight, because for one reason or another, judges decided to rob him from an obvious clear victory.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 11:30

ironbeard wrote: ↑10 Sep 2019, 10:58
They lost because they lost.

No, they lost because refs allowed continuous blatant fowling by Ward. Kovalev "lost" in their first fight, because for one reason or another, judges decided to rob him from an obvious clear victory.

Box_of_Endless_Tears you are.