BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 17:48

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 17:48
Kovalev was almost stopped by an opponent with no top level experience who didn't even spar during the camp. There is a high possibility that Kovalev is shot.

Shot fighters aren't World Titleholders. Shot fighters don't win tough fights against undefeated Young fighters.

He's just prepping to not give canelo any credit if he wins.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:47

gilgamesh wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 17:48

Shot fighters aren't World Titleholders. Shot fighters don't win tough fights against undefeated Young fighters.

He's just prepping to not give canelo any credit if he wins.

Yeah, that's the way it's coming across.

Make no mistake. If Canelo legitimately wins this, it'll be his biggest win.

That being said I'd be surprised if he does legitimately win it. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets it, but I'd be surprised if he gets it honest.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:44

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:42

I look at it like a speedometer. Kov isn't yet in the red shot zone but he's past the middle point, likely at a quarter tank.

He definitely ain't at his best anymore. I think we'd all agree on that, but I'm not sure he'd need to be at his very best. Considering all the advantages he has.

He's bigger, more powerful, harder hitter, better jab.

Canelo has better head movement, better body punching, and the judges in his pocket. Kovalev has more tools to actually WIN a fight. Canelo has more connections.

On paper, he has the tools, but at this point, he doesn't really have the intangibles to make it work to beat Canelo. It's like Pacquiao Thurman. On paper, Thurman is so much better physically but in intangibles/experience/toughness, Pacquiao trumped him in spades. Same with Hopkins Tarver.

..obviously if Kovalev was at his best, he wouldn't have been challenged by Canelo...would have been suicidal even in Las Vegas..

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:50

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:44

He definitely ain't at his best anymore. I think we'd all agree on that, but I'm not sure he'd need to be at his very best. Considering all the advantages he has.

He's bigger, more powerful, harder hitter, better jab.

Canelo has better head movement, better body punching, and the judges in his pocket. Kovalev has more tools to actually WIN a fight. Canelo has more connections.

On paper, he has the tools, but at this point, he doesn't really have the intangibles to make it work to beat Canelo. It's like Pacquiao Thurman. On paper, Thurman is so much better physically but in intangibles/experience/toughness, Pacquiao trumped him in spades. Same with Hopkins Tarver.

Canelo ain't Pacquiao, and Kovalev ain't Thurman.

Kovalev has been a better Light Heavyweight than Thurman was a Welterweight. Canelo has never been Pacquiao level talented.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:49

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:47

He's just prepping to not give canelo any credit if he wins.

Yeah, that's the way it's coming across.

Make no mistake. If Canelo legitimately wins this, it'll be his biggest win.

That being said I'd be surprised if he does legitimately win it. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets it, but I'd be surprised if he gets it honest.

I think he's going to stop him.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 10:09

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:49

Yeah, that's the way it's coming across.

Make no mistake. If Canelo legitimately wins this, it'll be his biggest win.

That being said I'd be surprised if he does legitimately win it. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets it, but I'd be surprised if he gets it honest.

I think he's going to stop him.

I'd be very impressed if he does. It's not impossible, but I just don't really see it considering he couldn't stop or even particularly hurt Jacobs.

He didn't stop the majority of his high profile opponents at 154 either.

I don't think he's suddenly gonna become a puncher fighting the biggest guy he's ever fought.

And Kovalev's perceived "Can't take it to the body" weakness is blown way out of proportion

The way Ward was attacking Kov's body was different than the way Canelo attacks too. Canelo would have to kinda get in there, and grind away because he's not as fast or athletic as Ward. Ward was quick enough that he was able to land a solid body shot here and there, and get away a lot of the time. I don't think Canelo is quick enough to do that too often.

It's gonna be a fun fight though. Lots of variables.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:59

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:50

On paper, he has the tools, but at this point, he doesn't really have the intangibles to make it work to beat Canelo. It's like Pacquiao Thurman. On paper, Thurman is so much better physically but in intangibles/experience/toughness, Pacquiao trumped him in spades. Same with Hopkins Tarver.

Canelo ain't Pacquiao, and Kovalev ain't Thurman.

Kovalev has been a better Light Heavyweight than Thurman was a Welterweight. Canelo has never been Pacquiao level talented.

Current Thurman is better than current Kovalev. And today's Canelo is a tad batter than current Pacquiao.

Kov has never even been down to the body. And what's the biggest mental weakness he showed---the ball stuff against Ward? He kept getting up vs Alvarez then schooled him in an immeidate rematch, and he gritted down vs Yarde to score a nice KO. How unconfident or mentally weak is he?

He's vulnerable for sure, but it's getting seriously blown out of proportion. He's not Rocky Fielding.

Do people think Danny Jacobs(who took Canelo's shots fine despite being dropped and knocked out before) would beat up Kov at 175 too?

If it really is that easy for Canelo, the orange kid should seriously be considered as a threat to clean out or at minimum unify LHW.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 10:15

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 10:09
I think he's going to stop him.

I'd be very impressed if he does. It's not impossible, but I just don't really see it considering he couldn't stop or even particularly hurt Jacobs.

He didn't stop the majority of his high profile opponents at 154 either.

I don't think he's suddenly gonna become a puncher fighting the biggest guy he's ever fought.

And Kovalev's perceived "Can't take it to the body" weakness is blown way out of proportion

The way Ward was attacking Kov's body was different than the way Canelo attacks too. Canelo would have to kinda get in there, and grind away because he's not as fast or athletic as Ward. Ward was quick enough that he was able to land a solid body shot here and there, and get away a lot of the time. I don't think Canelo is quick enough to do that too often.

It's gonna be a fun fight though. Lots of variables.

Yarde almost finished him with a single body shot. He survived, but he hates it downstairs.

He got bothered by a body shot true, then took a load of shots, stayed up and came out straight away to dominate the next round. Vs a big LHW. He is vulnerable (shown vs lhws) but not extremely so.

A guy like Danny Jacobs had been KTFO and dropped at MW but took Canelo's shots fine. Cotto had been hurt numerous times but did the same.

I dunno, I expect Nelo to win on being a supeior talent but I think Kov is not so fragile.

Canelo is more comfortable boxing and countering like he did against Jacobs and cotto. He doesn't have that option here.

I think people are vastly underestimating Kovalev's advantages going into the fight.,

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 12:43 I think people are vastly underestimating Kovalev's advantages going into the fight.,

People have always undersold his Boxing skill to me.

He outboxed Andre Ward in the 1st fight. He outboxed Bernard Hopkins (granted Hops was old as hell by then, but still), he outboxed Alvarez in the rematch.

He has good skill. He's not just a one dimensional bully.

That being said, he does possess good killer instinct, and will attack the sh*t out of you and go for the finish if he hurts you.

To me it's more like they overestimate his weaknesses. He's being commonly treated like is a total glass man who will give in the first shot to the body from a middleweight, even though he's never even been dropped to the body in a LHW career. And stuff about so weak mentally and that he'll quit as soon as the going gets tough, even though he clearly didn't do that last fight.

I will be surprised if he goes down without giving Canelo a tough time at the very least. If Canelo just walks through him then Ginger deserves massive credit and should be considered a good shot to unify at LHW. He'll obviously have shown to be a far more effective fighter than the likes of Yarde + E Alvarez and will have shown all sorts of tools to use on the likes of Berterbiev, Browne, etc.

He won't go down without a fight. I hope he slaughters Opie.

too stupid.

i doubt kovalev knocks out canelo, fore shure canelo doesn't knock out kovalev & definitely not with a body shot(s).

kovalev will clearly win the fight, commentators & audience will go off in a frenzy when canelo attempts his flurries.

his performance will be totally exaggerated, he unrightfully will get a close predetermined decision. maybe a rematch. life goes on. it is what it is.

if canelo really should take on beterbiev at lhw, his "streak" will be over. but he's not stupid.

Sergey Kovalev will very likely suffer a devastating stoppage loss to Canelo that embarrasses him to the point he’ll feel compelled to retire, unless the Russian concedes defeat during the bout and becomes defensively-minded in order to last the distance.

The Krusher has recently been seriously hurt by feather-fisted fighters like Andre Ward and Eleider Alvarez, both of whom have scored 50% of their wins by stoppage, with the Russian also troubled greatly by the UK domestic level novice Anthony Yarde.

People may cite Kovalev’s prime years of 2014, when he outworked the fifty-year-old version of Bernard Hopkins, and also his first bout against Andre Ward in 2016, but time waits for no man and Sergey is no longer force he once was.

Canelo will beat Kovalev convincingly, by stoppage or unanimous decision, but the Mexican won’t receive any kudos from fight fans, because his achievement will be belittled by the fact he beat a shot fighter that had personal troubles outside the ring (due to alcohol-induced criminal activity).

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:28

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑22 Sep 2019, 20:44
Prime Kovalev would get rid of Yarde in the first half and wouldn't be on a verge of getting stopped himself.

So you're either Prime or you're Shot? There is no in between to you?

There is definitely in between, and that is where he is now. "Shot" just means that he shifted too much from his prime. For example, if Golovkin doesn't manage a clear win against Derevo, I will call him shot.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 16:00

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 09:28

So you're either Prime or you're Shot? There is no in between to you?

There is definitely in between, and that is where he is now. "Shot" just means that he shifted too much from his prime. For example, if Golovkin doesn't manage a clear win against Derevo, I will call him shot.

Well you shouldn't.

A shot fighter is completely finished. He probably wouldn't beat any contender of any note. If you can still compete at the Top 10 level, and are still considered a serious contender. You're definitely not shot.

I'd refer to a Champion who's seen his better days, but is still competing at a high level to be faded, but even that isn't entirely accurate because the great ones can still learn to adapt even as they age.

Point is. If they're still fighting and winning in significant fights. They ain't shot.

“Canelo stops him within the 7th and 9th rounds with a good body shot,” said Abel Sanchez to Fight-hype about Canelo vs. Kovalev fight. “He’s going to work the body until he gets the perfect one...”

“I can see Canelo stopping Sergey Kovalev late, somewhere around the 11th or 12th round, because Kovalev is in his mid-30s,” Andre Ward continued.

“This is a cash-out fight for him. I’m sure he’s going to try to win, but he’s not the Krusher anymore. It’s as simple as that. He’s had tough fights. He’s had a tough lifestyle outside the ring. I’m leaning towards Canelo for a late round stoppage.”

Suddenly someone is a fan of Abel's words

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑23 Sep 2019, 18:26 Suddenly someone is a fan of Abel's words

I'm always interested in the opinions of boxing insiders and would have posted Abel's comments regardless as to whomever he favoured.

Abel Sanchez has first-hand experience of Canelo and used to train Krusher. And Andre Ward has first-hand experience of Kovalev. Their opinions are more educated than most pundits, since they were involved with at least two fights against both men.

Maybe if Sergey wins he deserves extra props then. Overcoming them big underdog odds!