Corrie Sanders -How really good was he or could have been?

[Cutman Scabbers]

By the way, anyone know the stories of Corrie Sanders' last four bouts?

Was he trying to get another shot at the title?

[littleton.barry]

His fights with Mike Dixon and Garing Lane were awful spectacles and were poorly received by broadcasters and the press. He had the look of a protected fighter, he failed to impress on the big bills he was placed on, and he was even knocked out by Nate Tubbs, one of the endless fringe contenders he was matched with.

He wasn't held in any regard in his prime, and the idea he was avoided by anybody is a myth that was concocted after his two Klitschko fights.

[Cutman Scabbers]

What was the story behind his last bout with Osborne Machimana?

[Caractacus]

What was the story behind his last bout with Osborne Machimana?

The story was that Corrie Sanders was 42 years old in 2008.
His prime years being wasted because apparently no one wanted to give him a shot at the Heavyweight title(s) when he was a younger man
because of the colour of his skin and his country of origin (probably maybe).
thats as good a theory as anyones I guess.
That and maybe he was taking a break from his golfing game.

[littleton.barry]

Being a white South African in the 1990s didn't exactly hold Frans Botha back.

I would be interested to see whether anyone can find any contemporary evidence of a demand for a Corrie Sanders world title fight. I followed his career, watched all the shows and read all the papers and magazines and never saw it. He simply wasn't a figure of interest, and a lot of that was due to his idiosyncrasies.

[Caractacus]

Being a white South African in the 1990s didn't exactly hold Frans Botha back.

I would be interested to see whether anyone can find any contemporary evidence of a demand for a Corrie Sanders world title fight. I followed his career, watched all the shows and read all the papers and magazines and never saw it. He simply wasn't a figure of interest, and a lot of that was due to his idiosyncrasies.

Perhaps thats because Frans Botha (whom Corrie Sanders defeated four times in the amateurs (and Ko'ing him three times in the four))
had for a manager Don Kings son,Carl King (who had the complexion to make the connection)

I for one was interested.
I do remember reading an article about him in a boxing magazine around 1993.
(which was around the time he came to America to fight Bert Cooper)
Those were the days before 24-7 mass media saturation via Television and especially
you most likely did not have access to the inter-net to Google him or watch his bouts on youtube during most f the 1990's to find out more about him.

[Caractacus]

This was 23 year old Corrie Sanders Fifth pro fight.
Corrie Sanders vrs Samson Mahlangu
September.9.1989.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is223OuFXMU

[Jaywheel]

Pretty sure that's Tom Selleck.

[Cutman Scabbers]

excerpt from a Seconds Out interview with Anthony Evans:

AE: No-one wanted to fight Klitschko and I heard that you, too, were unsure of yourself going into the bout.

CS: That's true, yes. It had been some years since I fought a big name in a major fight and I think it was normal to have nerves. I knew it was my final, last ever chance and that was a lot of pressure. I even consulted a sports psychologist. And I've never believed in that stuff (sports psychology) but against Klitschko I knew I needed added dimensions to my preparation. This was my one last chance, financially as well as anything else. If I beat Klitschko I knew I could have a great life after boxing.

I saw the psychologist three or four times and some of the things she had me do were almost like mathematics - they were exercises for my mind - and it definitely helped. It kept my mind working even under enormous stress and I really (felt the results) when I (fought Klitschko). I was totally prepared, mentally and physically.

[Cutman Scabbers]

(more)

AE: Talk me through the fight.

CS: I was very confident. He didn't jab like I expected he would. I had worked hard on a plan to get close to him, to get past the jab but suddenly I had the chance to land a big punch and he went down. I give him a lot of credit - he got up and showed courage - but he was gone and I could see it in his eyes. There aren't many guys who can recover from those sort of shots, maybe three or four in the whole division. The second knockdown (in the first round) I think could have been a knockout if not for the bell saving him. Sitting in my corner waiting for the second round, I knew I'd beaten him. He was out of the fight and it was a matter of landing a few more shorts, that's all.

He was shocked, basically. He couldn't believe it. I hit him again and it was all over and let me tell you it means so much to me. The belt was important but most important was that I'd knocked out the guy who almost everyone said was the second best heavyweight in the world. He was supposed to be the guy to rule for years and years after Lennox Lewis retired and I'd beaten him in two rounds.

There were so many people who didn't believe in me, but now everyone is happy for me and supporting me. When I got back in South Africa there were all these fans waiting at the airport for me with my family. I was unbelievable that all those people took the time to wait around just to see me. I had tears in my eyes.

[littleton.barry]

Being a white South African in the 1990s didn't exactly hold Frans Botha back.

I would be interested to see whether anyone can find any contemporary evidence of a demand for a Corrie Sanders world title fight. I followed his career, watched all the shows and read all the papers and magazines and never saw it. He simply wasn't a figure of interest, and a lot of that was due to his idiosyncrasies.

Perhaps thats because Frans Botha (whom Corrie Sanders defeated four times in the amateurs (and Ko'ing him three times in the four))
had for a manager Don Kings son,Carl King (who had the complexion to make the connection)

I for one was interested.
I do remember reading an article about him in a boxing magazine around 1993.
(which was around the time he came to America to fight Bert Cooper)
Those were the days before 24-7 mass media saturation via Television and especially
you most likely did not have access to the inter-net to Google him or watch his bouts on youtube during most f the 1990's to find out more about him.

The first time I watched Corrie Sanders box was in 1991 versus Johnny DuPlooy, which was broadcast on Eurosport. Many of his fights were on Eurosport, as well as Sky. Looking at his record I remember taping Art Card, Anthony Wade, Mike Dixon, Mike Evans, Matthew Brooks. The Nate Tubbs fight was shown on the German channel DSF (available on Sky), and the Garing Lane fight live on Wire TV. He had a spell in the UK where he boxed live on Sky several times, including against local pug Keith Fletcher. I had to buy a tape through a trader of his fight with Bert Cooper.

Perhaps Frans Botha faired better because he won all his fights, whereas Corrie was knocked out cold by Nate Tubbs, then later on removed himself from qualifying for a world title fight by winning the WBU title. He would have been better off following Botha's lead and signing with a major promoter who could get him a title fight.

[Cutman Scabbers]

Being a white South African in the 1990s didn't exactly hold Frans Botha back.

I would be interested to see whether anyone can find any contemporary evidence of a demand for a Corrie Sanders world title fight. I followed his career, watched all the shows and read all the papers and magazines and never saw it. He simply wasn't a figure of interest, and a lot of that was due to his idiosyncrasies.

Perhaps thats because Frans Botha (whom Corrie Sanders defeated four times in the amateurs (and Ko'ing him three times in the four))
had for a manager Don Kings son,Carl King (who had the complexion to make the connection)

I for one was interested.
I do remember reading an article about him in a boxing magazine around 1993.
(which was around the time he came to America to fight Bert Cooper)
Those were the days before 24-7 mass media saturation via Television and especially
you most likely did not have access to the inter-net to Google him or watch his bouts on youtube during most f the 1990's to find out more about him.

The first time I watched Corrie Sanders box was in 1991 versus Johnny DuPlooy, which was broadcast on Eurosport. Many of his fights were on Eurosport, as well as Sky. Looking at his record I remember taping Art Card, Anthony Wade, Mike Dixon, Mike Evans, Matthew Brooks. The Nate Tubbs fight was shown on the German channel DSF (available on Sky), and the Garing Lane fight live on Wire TV. He had a spell in the UK where he boxed live on Sky several times, including against local pug Keith Fletcher. I had to buy a tape through a trader of his fight with Bert Cooper.

Perhaps Frans Botha faired better because he won all his fights, whereas Corrie was knocked out cold by Nate Tubbs, then later on removed himself from qualifying for a world title fight by winning the WBU title. He would have been better off following Botha's lead and signing with a major promoter who could get him a title fight.

Yes, but in the end, look what he achieved!

[littleton.barry]

No one was happier than I when he knocked out Wladimir Klitschko!

[Ambling Alp II]

Well, first of all I don't think Klitschko was that good and have said so many times. The great Ross Purrity stopped him as did Lamon Brewster. Samuel Peter almost did. Don't see too many people saying they were really good fighters like people do with Sanders.

However, it is fair to say that Sanders looked good in that fight. Still, he only had really three fights in his career that were against top fighters of his era. The other two were against the other Kltischko and Rahman. Both of them had severe limitations but each still stopped Sanders.

He spent most of the rest of his career fighting weak competition. The other wins are almost meaningless when trying to make a case that he was a really good fighter. You simply don't have to be that good to beat the fighters that Sanders beat. Getting ko'd by Nate Tubbs is pretty embarrassing and severely hurts his case as well.

I can see why someone would be a fan of his. That's fine. I like other fighters throughout boxing history who were far from legends. However, what is silly is to think that Sanders was actually that good. He simply wasn't.

The thread asks how good could he have been. I think excellent. A 6'4" southpaw with fast hands, and fast feet. Give him a better trainer and promoter with connections, and he could have been special. Too bad he had neither. Sanders, if he was in shape would have beaten Rhaman, and that was the best version of Rhaman who KO'd Lennox Lewis.

No one beat Wlad the way Sanders did. Wlad gassed vs Purrity and Brewster.

I think he could have been what he was. A decent fighter. No where near excellent.

If he was in shape for Rahman he could have beat him. Great "my dog ate my homework excuse".
If he really did have fast hands, great movement, had a good chin, had a good defense, then maybe he could have done more. And you could say that for anybody.

[Caractacus]

Man you talk like his fight with Hasim Rachman was one sided.
Rachman could have easily went down too on the second knockdown.

[Caractacus]

Another thing Corrie Sanders was promoted a lot in the 1990's by Cedric Kushner,
and a lot of people(like other fighters managers) probably didnt want to deal with him because of his ethnic background too.

[Ambling Alp II]

Man you talk like his fight with Hasim Rachman was one sided.
Rachman could have easily went down too on the second knockdown.

Never said it was one-sided. Just stated the fact that Rahman won and that your excuse for Sanders is about as lame as it gets.

[Caractacus]

Well Sanders said in the post fight interview that he really wasnt in shape for the fight.
Im not sure why he wasnt in shape
perhaps he took the fight on short notice
or was coming off an injury when he signed.
I will look into it and get back to you.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Man you talk like his fight with Hasim Rachman was one sided.
Rachman could have easily went down too on the second knockdown.

He's lucky Rahman came in at the highest weight of his career. an in shape Rahman stops Sanders in 1.

[Caractacus]

No he dosent.
Sanders would have KO'D Rachman in the first round but it looked like he stepped back to admire his handywork and got caught by an unexpected punch.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Well, he lost and going by their weights Corrie was in better shape than Rahman. He just lost to the tougher man and bigger puncher.

[Tuan_Jim]

Another thing Corrie Sanders was promoted a lot in the 1990's by Cedric Kushner,
and a lot of people(like other fighters managers) probably didnt want to deal with him because of his ethnic background too.

What on earth are you talking about? Cedric Kushner took Tony Tucker to the IBF title and worked with Don King and HBO to stage the unification finale vs Mike Tyson. He took Pierre Coetzer to a WBC eliminator vs Riddick Bowe. He was involved in numerous big fights in the 1990s.

What is it with Corrie Sanders and this need to make him into something more than he was? He was a fringe 90s guy who Wladimir exhumed in the expectation he wouldn't get hit in the glassy mush.

[Cutman Scabbers]

I think he could have been what he was. A decent fighter. No where near excellent.

If he was in shape for Rahman he could have beat him. Great "my dog ate my homework excuse".
If he really did have fast hands, great movement, had a good chin, had a good defense, then maybe he could have done more. And you could say that for anybody.

That is a great line. It expresses something fundamental about the nature of humanity, possibility, and time.

At the same time, it makes me think how excellent Sanders was the night he defeated Klitschko.

Should we judge on the basis of a whole career, a single fight, or somewhere in between?

One's best performance, one's worst, or all those in between?

Perhaps we shouldn't judge at all. Just admire and appreciate the excellence wherever it manifests.

[littleton.barry]

When Corrie Sanders boxed Hasim Rahman he weighed 225lbs, not only a good weight (at least by the standards of Corrie Sanders), but also the exact same weight he boxed Wladimir Klitschko. The only difference I can see is that the frail Klitschko quickly fell apart under Sanders' punches, whereas the game Rahman found a way to muscle himself back in. Sanders was lighter against Rahman than he had been three months earlier against Alfred Cole, so evidently he had trained.

The excuses of losing boxers are generally seen as being just that: excuses. It's odd that people need to give credence to the excuses of Corrie Sanders.

[Cutman Scabbers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU2_gMHkzSE