Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

[Caractacus]

bump

[Kalan]

here is Cleveland Williams vs Tod Herring
June.18.1966 Sam Houston Coliseum Houston Texas.
It was on the closed-circuit preliminary to the Earnie Terrell vs Doug Jones
bout.
Williams record going into the fight:64-5-1
Herring 26-5-0



This was one of Cleveland William's fights after the gunshot and
the fight just before his fight with Muhammad Ali later that Novemberl.
Tod Herring was the Texas Heavyweight champion(and former sparring partner to Cleveland Williams too).
BTW
Is it just my imagination or does Tod Herring remind you too
of Randall'Tex"Cobb?
Maybe they were kinfolk?

Herring was a Cruiserweight in size... He didn't look or fight like Cobb... Herring suffered 2 brutal KO losses is his 2 previous fights to Williams... He obviously wasn't ranked and wanted to get out of Boxing... One of the tough KO losses he suffered prior to the Williams fight was to Elmer Rush, a relative novice with a 11-1-2 record..

After Williams, Herring fought one fight against a raw novice a year later and quit... He never beat a contender.

Herring and Williams both lived in Huston and were good friends who sparred a lot... Herring donated blood for a couple of Williams operations when people weren't sure Williams would survive... They weren't happy to be fighting each other but Boxing is a business.. They were doing business.. Neither looked really excited or happy.

It was pretty much understood they were going to leverage the Herring fight into a Title shot for Williams.. They had Ali lined up already and Herring knew this.. His job was to put up a fight for a couple rounds, but both Herring and the referee knew that was about enough punishment for Herring... It was almost like Herring was saying, "Okay ref... I put up my 2 rounds of fighting... Let's get this over with." and the referee moved in and stopped it.

[BoxBuzz]

Stop takin' the piss at Clevelands expense there boy.

He weren't no pussycat like you want to frame him.

Now granted George Foreman doesn't know as much about dis, dat, and da udder ting, like our friend Kalan does.

But he does take the time to give a "tip of the Stetson" to his fellow Texan.

And if you take a look a just a bit of his work....as shown here.....you might just end up knowing more about him, than you did before you saw him toss a few lefts and rights.




Kalan, looks like he's giving Sonny boy at least a bit of distraction in his losing efforts. But of course am I going to believe you...or my lying eyes?

[Kalan]

Believe the facts.... Which I know is very difficult for you..

FACT.... Liston rubs out Williams in 3 rounds then 2 rounds... The only thing that happens is Williams gets beaten up... battered around... and knocked out... Williams was a punching bag... China Chinned Light Heavyweight Bob Satterfield proved that by smashing the turds out of Williams in the 1st round and knocking him TFO in same!!!!

[BoxBuzz]

Believe the facts.... Which I know is very difficult for you..

FACT.... Liston rubs out Williams in 3 rounds then 2 rounds... The only thing that happens is Williams gets beaten up... battered around... and knocked out... Williams was a punching bag... China Chinned Light Heavyweight Bob Satterfield proved that by smashing the turds out of Williams in the 1st round and knocking him TFO in same!!!!

Good point....and/but he hung in with Eddie Machen.......takes more than a cadaver to do that.....He just was not as lame as you......or as you make him out to be.

[Kalan]

Believe the facts.... Which I know is very difficult for you..

FACT.... Liston rubs out Williams in 3 rounds then 2 rounds... The only thing that happens is Williams gets beaten up... battered around... and knocked out... Williams was a punching bag... China Chinned Light Heavyweight Bob Satterfield proved that by smashing the turds out of Williams in the 1st round and knocking him TFO in same!!!!

Good point....and/but he hung in with Eddie Machen.......takes more than a cadaver to do that.....He just was not as lame as you......or as you make him out to be.

I didn't say Williams was a cadaver.... You're the cadaver lad... You're traipsing through moonbeams on planet Orokorbec again... Machen was not a puncher and he was FLATTENED in the 1st round by Ingo... Any good puncher Williams faced leveled him out... He was knocked out 8 times, so trying to sell him as a good win for Ali is a scam... Especially since he was partially paralyzed by a .357 magnum that forced doctors to remove several feet of his intestines and a kidney.

[BoxBuzz]

Believe the facts.... Which I know is very difficult for you..

FACT.... Liston rubs out Williams in 3 rounds then 2 rounds... The only thing that happens is Williams gets beaten up... battered around... and knocked out... Williams was a punching bag... China Chinned Light Heavyweight Bob Satterfield proved that by smashing the turds out of Williams in the 1st round and knocking him TFO in same!!!!

Good point....and/but he hung in with Eddie Machen.......takes more than a cadaver to do that.....He just was not as lame as you......or as you make him out to be.

I didn't say Williams was a cadaver.... You're the cadaver lad... You're traipsing through moonbeams on planet Orokorbec again... Machen was not a puncher and he was FLATTENED in the 1st round by Ingo... Any good puncher Williams faced leveled him out... He was knocked out 8 times, so trying to sell him as a good win for Ali is a scam... Especially since he was partially paralyzed by a .357 magnum that forced doctors to remove several feet of his intestines and a kidney.

Honestly....a kidney is not an issue....we have 100 times the kidney power we need to operate at 100% efficiency.... so that's not an issue. The fact that he had major surgery, depending on how that came out could affect his performance. But you've go to do some more research on that belief. Because that dog don't hunt.

Let's look at some more facts....and grab your thickest glasses and clean em up good..........Foreman says he was a devastating puncher, and Liston liked putting him in the way of mouthy contenders, thinking Willams might just do his work for him. Yep he had flaws, but who do I believe here? You? Or my own lyin' eyes and the words of Liston and Foreman? And yes he was open but he could bang, and he was not sedentary....so he had a bag of tools.


I know, I know....I should listen to you......but sometimes I'm just too stubborn to drink the Kool Aid.....it's why I'm still standin' I guess.


By the way.....I'd appreciate it if I didn't have to clean up you and Oglethorps cuss-o-rama's. Think of the children when you feel you need to vent, and use the Queen's english instead of the ol gutter grumbles. My Daughter reads these pages.

[Kalan]

You've just written the dumbest post I've ever wasted my time on... Williams was a 2nd rater and physically diminished.

[BoxBuzz]

You've just written the dumbest post I've ever wasted my time on... Williams was a 2nd rater and physically diminished.

You are simply a narrow minded OCD boxing fan who does not have a clue regarding rehab, and the wonders of recuperation.

You probably have no idea how many great athletes have had surgery and come back better and stronger then ever.

And you have little to no knowledge as to just what it was Williams actually went through. And just how much he regained and how much he lost.

We do agree on one small scintilla of this. He was never a BETTER fighter after his surgery, but he was far more than just a shell of what he was.

And he was never a great.....but neither was Ingemar, or some others who actually achieved champion status.


Other than that, you are without a doubt both a gentleman and a scholar. But perhaps of a stature which is not overly imposing.

[Kalan]

You've just written the dumbest post I've ever wasted my time on... Williams was a 2nd rater and physically diminished.

You are simply a narrow minded OCD boxing fan who does not have a clue regarding rehab, and the wonders of recuperation.You probably have no idea how many great athletes have had surgery and come back better and stronger then ever.And you have little to no knowledge as to just what it was Williams actually went through. And just how much he regained and how much he lost.We do agree on one small scintilla of this. He was never a BETTER fighter after his surgery, but he was far more than just a shell of what he was.And he was never a great.....but neither was Ingemar, or some others who actually achieved champion status.ther than that, you are without a doubt both a gentleman and a scholar. But perhaps of a stature which is not overly imposing.

I assure you its very imposing, impressive, attractive, etc. And yours is not very from the way you talk. Williams wasn’t particularly imposing. Ali and Liston were better setup physically. Ali may have looked too effeminate with his small hands and girlish looking face. Most women would have preferred Jim Brown. Williams looked wasted like he had a bone hard life. Like he spent 15 years in prison instead of Liston. Sonny had a sinister look about him. He had a lot of confidence. Williams looked frightened, like he wondered into the ladies room by mistake. You know Sonny’s in control of that situation. Sonny had Williams figured and was smarter than most think.

A bright person can learn what he’s doing and not doing. Wladimir was missing a lot of skills and he’d been boxing for 15 years—an Olympic Gold Medal winner and an ex-World Champion with over 40 professional wins. It’s shocking to realize you can’t box well against all styles. You’re punching people out cuz you’re so big and strong, but you can’t box. He didn’t sit there sucking his thumb. He got hold of Steward.

Williams had worse problems than Wlad, but he didn’t see them. In fact, Williams is the guy who asked for the rematch with Liston. He wasn’t too bright. You’re right, the .357 magnum point blank shot in the stomach destroyed a lot of his inner working so he wasn’t better after multiple operations... He’d beaten no contenders and didn’t deserve a Title shot.

[Caractacus]

I think one of the last times that l Cleveland Williams laced up the gloves and got into a boxing ring (publicly)was when he was a sparring partner for Joe Bugner
when Bugner was in Las Vegas getting ready to fight Muhammad Ali in February 1973.
anyone know if he sparred with other fighters after that ?

[Caractacus]

For some reason I wasn't able to find a free google newspaper article concerning the results of Williams vs Terrell I,
April.3.1962,Houston Texas.
But I did come across an old article originally published 4.April.1962 by the United Press International and transcribed at this site in the boxrec.com/media dept.

"Cleveland (Big Cat)Williams,212,the 6th rank heavyweight contender,scored
a 7th round TKO Tuesday night over young Ernest Terrell,202,of Chicago in a scheduled 10 round fight.
After a slow start,Williams caught Terrell with a left cross in the 3rd round and had the fight his own way from then on.
The Chicago fighter had opened a cut under William's left eye within the first minute of the 1st round.
In the 6th,Williams hit him with a right hook followed by a left cross and Terrell hit the canvas but bounced back up after an eight count.
Referee Sonny Liston stopped the bout at 1:47 of the 7th round after Williams had battered Terrell with a series of rights and lefts".
-United Press international-

wow !Brutu- you'r da greatest !

[evrenb]

Wow brutu...you are mental!

[Caractacus]

For some reason this always struck me as a bizarre photo with the expressions on everyones faces here considering.
from JET magazine December.01.1966

I remember the photograph
here is the re-link to it.

https://books.google.com/books?id=kbgDA ... pg=PA32&dq

[BoxBuzz]

For some reason this always struck me as a bizarre photo with the expressions on everyones faces here considering.
from JET magazine December.01.1966

I remember the photograph
here is the re-link to it.

https://books.google.com/books?id=kbgDA ... pg=PA32&dq

Holy Effin Shyt Caractus.......My mind has been blown.....(some in the politics chat would say that happened many many years ago) However....You just posted a picture right out of my past. And it wasn't one you probably meant to post. The great Soloman Burke! A Philly legend! Phillip "Moose" Henry was his drummer for a period of time. Moose and I made great music together for a couple of years in the mid 70's. Moose died well over two decades ago...may he R.I.P. But seeing a pic of Solomon, in a Cleveland Williams thread.....just gave me chills. So though unintended...thanks for the moment! By the way Solomon Died according to Moose from his great anxiety of flying. Moose also worked with Otis Redding, who also had plane problems. He also Played with Baby Huey...another Philly legend, and Lisa Minelli. Moose's fear of flying was brought about by Otis's and Solomon's experience....he would always take the bus. And on one occasion when we had to fly to Hawaii for a gig at the Sheraton in Oahu, he had a mental breakdown on the plane. Though he survived, and managed to fly back as well. Wow...just had to chime in on that one. Oh and Cleveland wouldn't all that bad.....and he did do better than expected post surgery. Them's the facts.

[Caractacus]

wonder if Pamela Frazier from Philadelphia was any relation to Joe ?

[margaret thatcher]

first post showing in the slick cleveland williams thread from none other than alpy

[Caractacus]

But It was "Il dude" that originally started up this thread in the first place (from what I remember)
up until he was 'vapourized' from this board some 10 years ago .

[Caractacus]

I do know that Billy Gore (Manager) also handled Roy 'Cut-N-Shoot' Harris at the same time.

Roy was the 'right color' for 1958..........

Roy Harris was ranked #1 at the time, but Billy Gore would never allow Cleveland to spar with
Roy, in fear of as he said,,,,,

'Cleveland might decapitate Roy with his left hook. Then I'd be the first Manager with a
'Headless Heavyweight'.

Billy Gore also handled 'The Animal',,,,,,,,,,Dave 'Ziggy' Zyglewicz.....

im not sure if you meant never or rarely.
it does appear that Roy Harris did spar with Cleveland Williams
at least a few times.
this recent article quotes Roy Harris as saying,

"My toughest opponent and most dangerous was when I sparred with
Cleveland Williams".

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ken/Hissner030911.htm

and here is a newspaper article from 4.December.1959
when Roy Harris was training to fight Paul Andrews.


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=rL ... 1278723&dq

see, there some remnents here from from some of his posts,where he was quoted by other posters here.

[margaret thatcher]

But It was "Il dude" that originally started up this thread in the first place (from what I remember)
up until he was 'vapourized' from this board some 10 years ago .

ya, wonder if that dude is around now, maybe right under our noses

[Giancarlo]

But It was "Il dude" that originally started up this thread in the first place (from what I remember)
up until he was 'vapourized' from this board some 10 years ago .

ya, wonder if that dude is around now, maybe right under our noses

I think we'd recognise him.

He has had 3 iterations. All exactly the same.

He hated most fighters except a couple he had a bad case of man-love for.

He did appreciate a man with a strong back and sturdy legs I seem to remember.

Eventually even the normally mellow Boxbuzz got tired of him stinking up the place like rotten fish.

[Caractacus]

IMOP Kalan, was a really knowgelable poster too.(that the angry villagers here managed to get rid of too)
I'm sure he had some connection to professional boxing.

[BoxBuzz]

IMOP Kalan, was a really knowgelable poster too.(that the angry villagers here managed to get rid of too)
I'm sure he had some connection to professional boxing.

Wel enjoyed going back and forth, he unlike many is/was a happy warrior who could give as good as he would take, and not be overly offended by those with a different perspective. And not be overly bothered by diverse viewpoints. Those types are few and far between. And should be honored and revered.