BoxRec

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:41

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:38 Yet he fought so much better at 212. Had a draw with Fury. Previous six fights was under 225. At 231, he looked awful. It's almost like there is a pattern there.

Didn't Fury fight little Steve Cunningham ?

Ya, and he basically leaned on him and wore him out by being bigger

After the little no name dropped the "elusive One" and was winning after 6 rounds. Maybe we should invoke the Vitaly Klitschko rule and declare Cunningham the winner over Fury.

Ya, the big man just used his size to wear out the little man, nah, no need to bring up Quitchko

You would think that a guy much better than the Steve Cunningham (but roughly his weight) would have a good chance against the "Elusive One".
It's almost like we should not automatically dismiss a guy because of the all important weight "advantage".
Draw with Wilder. all that trouble with journeyman Steve Cunningham........ interesting.

Dudes never lost to a smaller man, sure he's had his hiccups though. Poor Steve, he tried so hard but was just manhandled and worn down by the end.. And of course size isn't all anyway, very very few are saying that, but it matters. That's actually a funny fight for you to pick out because if anything size was the difference

Still waiting on our 6 foot 195 pound saviour, I mean with his functional size advantage, reminiscent of the great Jack Johnson for example, he should appear sooner rather than later

Dude fought one decent lighter man and got a draw. Sorry, I can't play with you anymore. Will have to wait until tomorrow to see your eloquent reply.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:13 Dude fought one decent lighter man and got a draw. Sorry, I can't play with you anymore. Will have to wait until tomorrow to see your eloquent reply.

Lol, after getting some decent fights back in he whooped the dude's ass about as bad as he's whooped anyone'e ass, tossed him around and ragdolled him. Leaned the hell out of Cunningham too and just outmanned Steve, size was clear there bruh

Not sure what your point is anyway, duh size isn't everything, it won't automatically win it for someone, a big guy can still have problems with a small one. No sh!t sherlock

Now, I wonder which LHW fighters we can bring up. Many are around 6 feet and would prob be 190ish without draining or building up any extra bulk. A classic beautiful Hw physique, of the Dempsey or Johnson, maybe more useful than a giant one, agreed?

H8Usernames wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 16:56

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 11:47 or is just goofs like you with no respect for the sport.

"Goofs" "No respect for the sport" "Go to hell". Sounds like someone needs to go to his local gym to prove his greatness in the ring.

Trying to start a flame war or something?

You certainly are escalating any arguement here telling people these things, making fun of them and calling them names from behind the heroic keyboard. Are threats the next step?

I'm not going to get in the middle of a pissing war but the following is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in my life, just in case my past sarcasm went over some heads:

"""Lightheavyweight 175
Jr Cruiserweight 190
Cruiserweight 205
Supercruiserweight 220
Heavyweight 221 and above."""""

H8Usernames wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 16:56

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 11:47 or is just goofs like you with no respect for the sport.

"Goofs" "No respect for the sport" "Go to hell". Sounds like someone needs to go to his local gym to prove his greatness in the ring.

Trying to start a flame war or something?

You certainly are escalating any arguement here telling people these things, making fun of them and calling them names from behind the heroic keyboard. Are threats the next step?

gilgamesh is a forum moderator.

It’s not advisable to argue with him... or at least resort to personal insults, because you’ll only end up getting banned.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:58 The closer Wilder is to 212 the better chance he has against Fury.

I agree, he's not small, but 1 or 2 people on here believe a guy 212 should be in another division.

To be fair, Wilder by his own admission claimed he’d try to unify the cruiserweight division after unifying the heavyweight division.

It was also proven that Wilder only weighed 209lbs on the morning of the fight for the first Fury bout.

So if people discussed Wilder’s ability to compete at cruiserweight, it wasn’t unwarranted.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:25

H8Usernames wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 16:56

"Goofs" "No respect for the sport" "Go to hell". Sounds like someone needs to go to his local gym to prove his greatness in the ring.

Trying to start a flame war or something?

You certainly are escalating any arguement here telling people these things, making fun of them and calling them names from behind the heroic keyboard. Are threats the next step?

I'm not going to get in the middle of a pissing war but the following is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in my life, just in case my past sarcasm went over some heads:

"""Lightheavyweight 175
Jr Cruiserweight 190
Cruiserweight 205
Supercruiserweight 220
Heavyweight 221 and above."""""

LMAO! That was one for the books.
25 years from now we can discuss SuperDooperHeavyweight Champion.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:15 All Jr and super divisions must be permanently abolished.

Having a weight division every 3 to 5 pounds is either mental retardation or corruption.

I don't mind 5 pounds at the lowest weights but there are more divisions than really needed

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:35

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:27
If you placed your life savings predicting that a lot of small heavyweights would be successful during the last twenty years or so, you would have already been declared bankrupt by now.

I would have lost money on the corrupt Valuev-Holy fight. Many thought Hunter beat Povetkin. Hunter and Usyk can hold their own against most bigger men. And Wilder has only lost once.

And yet it’s very rare for any heavyweights weighing less than 220lbs to achieve success at world level... at least within the last twenty years or so.

Can you provide the details of five legitimate world heavyweight championship bouts where the victor weighed less than 220lbs during the last decade?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:41

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 14:35

I would have lost money on the corrupt Valuev-Holy fight. Many thought Hunter beat Povetkin. Hunter and Usyk can hold their own against most bigger men. And Wilder has only lost once.

And yet it’s very rare for any heavyweights weighing less than 220lbs to achieve success at world level... at least within the last twenty years or so.

Can you provide the details of five legitimate world heavyweight championship bouts where the victor weighed less than 220lbs during the last decade?

I'd bet 220 is a convenient weight given your question. Are you saying that 220 is the cutoff for contending at HW?

Where do you draw the line between a small and not small hw, at some point you gotta make a distinction even when there is something right on either side

So what happened to the old cruiserweight division? It was a bad idea from the get go? Natural 190 pound fighters stopped being born?

The jr an super divisions are very usefull. Just gonna list a few examples.
Super mw Joe Calz
JR mw Winky Wright
JR WW Kostya Tzuy

The creation of Jr Cruiserweight and Super Cruiserweight wouldnt hurt anyone any more than the excistence of the jr bantamweight division. If there arent interesting fighters and good fights then nobody is going to care, simple as that.

If seeing some larger than life stars is so important then perhaps the WWE is a spoet better suited for some.

I suggest that some folks learn some math and calculate the weight incriments between divisions. The jump from 175 to 190 was already a bit big.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:54 Where do you draw the line between a small and not small hw

Right. What is legitimately small. Foreman, Lyle, Norton and even Ali were usually over 220 in the mid to late seventies. Holmes later half of his reign was north of 220 too.

Thinking about it more, I'd say the lack of real talent in the division of late makes it an advantage to have size. Because there is not much anything else. Is EO saying Holy couldn't compete with today's HWs?

H8Usernames wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:58 So what happened to the old cruiserweight division? It was a bad idea from the get go? Natural 190 pound fighters stopped being born?

The jr an super divisions are very usefull. Just gonna list a few examples.
Super mw Joe Calz
JR mw Winky Wright
JR WW Kostya Tzuy

The creation of Jr Cruiserweight and Super Cruiserweight wouldnt hurt anyone any more than the excistence of the jr bantamweight division. If there arent interesting fighters and good fights then nobody is going to care, simple as that.

If seeing some larger than life stars is so important then perhaps the WWE is a spoet better suited for some.

I suggest that some folks learn some math and calculate the weight incriments between divisions. The jump from 175 to 190 was already a bit big.

Where does it end though? For every new division there are four new champions. Pretty soon everyone will hold a belt and we'll have even less good fights.

oogiebe wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:47I'd bet 220 is a convenient weight given your question.

I asked someone else a question.

You can attempt to answer it if you want.

oogiebe wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:47Are you saying that 220 is the cutoff for contending at HW?

You should never ask me to defend something that I have never even commented on.

You heard him, NEVAH!! And if you do it again, somebody gonna get hurt

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 18:37 You heard him, NEVAH!! And if you do it again, somebody gonna get hurt

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 18:12

oogiebe wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:47I'd bet 220 is a convenient weight given your question.

I asked someone else a question.

You can attempt to answer it if you want.

oogiebe wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 17:47Are you saying that 220 is the cutoff for contending at HW?

You should never ask me to defend something that I have never even commented on.

Meh, you never answer anyone else's question. Puss.

oogiebe wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 18:01Right. What is legitimately small. Foreman, Lyle, Norton and even Ali were usually over 220 in the mid to late seventies. Holmes later half of his reign was north of 220 too...

Some rather interesting stats, which kind of relates to your comment...

George Foreman’s mathematical average weight was 217lbs from the start of his career through until the end of 1973. He was 217½lbs when he faced Joe Frazier in 1973 (his physical prime). He was also only 6’ 3.5” in height.

From the start of his career through until 1973, the average George Foreman opponent was typically 6’ 0” in height, weighing around the 206lbs mark.

From the start of his career until he reached his physical prime during 1971, Joe Frazier’s average weight for his first 32 bouts (up to the point he defeated Muhammad Ali), was 204¾lbs, with his average opponent weighing only 203¾lbs.

When ‘Iron’ Mike Tyson was at his destructive best (prior to his defeat to ‘Buster’ Douglas) for the first 37 bouts of his career, his opponents typically weighed 212lbs (excl. four anomalous fighters).

Mike Tyson’s own average ring weight during the same period was only 217¼lbs.

The 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent time period, his opponents typically weighed 210½lbs.

The average weight of Sonny Liston's opponents for the first 36 bouts of his career was 196lbs (& slightly less 6'0" tall).

Liston’s average weight during the same period was only 207lbs and he wasn’t particularly well-muscled or defined either.

oogiebe wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 19:10

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 18:12
I asked someone else a question.

You can attempt to answer it if you want.

You should never ask me to defend something that I have never even commented on.

Meh, you never answer anyone else's question. Puss.

I try to avoid being gullible and falling prey to dishonest debating tactics, such as red herrings and straw man’s.

I prefer to answer questions that directly relate to words I have actually written.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 19:29

oogiebe wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 19:10
Meh, you never answer anyone else's question. Puss.

I try to avoid being gullible and falling prey to dishonest debating tactics, such as red herrings and straw man’s.

I prefer to answer questions that directly relate to words I have actually written.

Do you just use the same lines each and every time you post? You seem very repetitive in your responses. Just saying.

oogiebe wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 20:25

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑10 Jun 2020, 19:29
I try to avoid being gullible and falling prey to dishonest debating tactics, such as red herrings and straw man’s.

I prefer to answer questions that directly relate to words I have actually written.

Do you just use the same lines each and every time you post? You seem very repetitive in your responses. Just saying.

I copy and paste a lot of my responses, because this forum can occasionally be a bit like groundhog day.

If the same topics, insults and dubious debating tactics are constantly being recycled at regular intervals, then why on earth would I expend considerable effort on providing unique responses?

If I’m placed in the same situations over-and-over again, then why should anyone expect my reactions to vary?

As the old adage goes: “Insanity is doing the same thing, over-and-over again, but expecting different results.”

Therefore, are you insane?