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Posted: 16 Dec 2006, 14:45
by DG.
Eastman carried Williams??
Don't make me laugh!
Howard was shaken in the 8th?? AND he knew RW had a good chin and Eastman had to use his experience to nick rounds.. He fought the same way against Jerry Elliott.
Howard did not carry anyone - shame on you!
Posted: 16 Dec 2006, 14:51
by SIMPSONS
DG. wrote:Eastman carried Williams??
Don't make me laugh!
Howard was shaken in the 8th?? AND he knew RW had a good chin and Eastman had to use his experience to nick rounds.. He fought the same way against Jerry Elliott.
Howard did not carry anyone - shame on you!
Dumb.Gooch....Elliot was a light Heavyweight on the night he fought Eastman WTF u expect him to do?
It was obvious Eastman had no venem in the fight with Williams.....i don't think he even meant to knock him out.
Let your love for R.W go and give it to Carlos.
Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 07:42
by Goz
I totally agree with DG, I don't think Eastman was carrying Williams at all, only possibly in the last round or two when Williams looked totally fooked he didn't force the stoppage although when Williams went for broke in the final round (which I thought was very brave by the way) Eastman put him away.
I think people are STILL being fooled by Eastman that he is fighting within himself all the time. Don't you get it? That's his style and that's how he fights, it's ok against domestic level opposition because he is accurate and strong but on the world stage he can't step up the output or general performance!
Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 09:14
by DG.
Goz wrote:I totally agree with DG, I don't think Eastman was carrying Williams at all, only possibly in the last round or two when Williams looked totally fooked he didn't force the stoppage although when Williams went for broke in the final round (which I thought was very brave by the way) Eastman put him away.
I think people are STILL being fooled by Eastman that he is fighting within himself all the time. Don't you get it? That's his style and that's how he fights, it's ok against domestic level opposition because he is accurate and strong but on the world stage he can't step up the output or general performance!
Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 12:02
by jamesmcdonnell
Eastman looks to still have enough left to me to compete at European level, he could maybe pick up the title again. He looked to me to be fighting within himself (when doesn't he?), and was very smart in there at conserving his energy whilst tiring his opponent out all the time.
Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 12:45
by DG.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Eastman looks to still have enough left to me to compete at European level, he could maybe pick up the title again. He looked to me to be fighting within himself (when doesn't he?), and was very smart in there at conserving his energy whilst tiring his opponent out all the time.
Crafty shifty sneaky operator.
He knows what he is doing even when he looks like he doesn't.
Posted: 19 Dec 2006, 12:54
by THEBUTCH
Enjoyed most of the fight. Eastman's experience was a key factor, as both he and Williams acknowledged afterwards.
Though Howard stunk the place out on the early rounds, it was perfect tactics and it's down to the referee to do his job and not let boxers get away with the holding (which the ref didn't
)
Good effort from Richard and he tried hard, but boxed like someone who knew no matter what he did, it wouldn't be enough. As I speculated previously, he's still haunted by the amateur loss to Eastman all those years ago.
Also looked to me if Howard was carrying Richard. I've seen both of them perform often enough down the years to recognise this. Good finish from Eastman too. As emphatic as you could hope for.
Hope Richard carries on and tries for another stab at the British title. May need to move to HennessySports though if he's serious about another crack, but I can't see that happening.
As for Howard, he's proved again he's well above British level and has been our best middleweigh for years. He's clearly got some mileage left in him, although he's even more cagey than ever with his use of energy.
Posted: 20 Dec 2006, 09:28
by DG.
THEBUTCH wrote:Enjoyed most of the fight. Eastman's experience was a key factor, as both he and Williams acknowledged afterwards.
Though Howard stunk the place out on the early rounds, it was perfect tactics and it's down to the referee to do his job and not let boxers get away with the holding (which the ref didn't
)
Good effort from Richard and he tried hard, but boxed like someone who knew no matter what he did, it wouldn't be enough. As I speculated previously, he's still haunted by the amateur loss to Eastman all those years ago.
Also looked to me if Howard was carrying Richard. I've seen both of them perform often enough down the years to recognise this. Good finish from Eastman too. As emphatic as you could hope for.
Hope Richard carries on and tries for another stab at the British title. May need to move to HennessySports though if he's serious about another crack, but I can't see that happening.
As for Howard, he's proved again he's well above British level and has been our best middleweigh for years. He's clearly got some mileage left in him, although he's even more cagey than ever with his use of energy.
I do not think for 1 minute that Howard carried Richard at all.
Howard knows RW takes a good punch and the pitter patter stuff was all point scoring for Howard without wasting his energy..
I do not think RW was haunted by the amateur loss at all - why would he be?.
RW believed he would win the fight and fough tooth and nail all the way.
I hope RW carries on - he competed very well in the fight and showed he is not on the slide.
As for Howard - he is a veteran of the sport and maybe can do something at World level - I hope so - and hope RW and HE carry on and do well..
IMO - RW losing was not that bad as he was not blown away or comletely out of his depth..
Richard - you really did not lose anything by the loss - in fact - you confirmed what many believe - you can compete above British level.
A few guys told me that the way you fought and punched etc was the best you had looked in years.
Posted: 20 Dec 2006, 09:56
by overhand_right
DG-
my impressions from ringside was that Howard was not carrying Williams at all, but def treating it more like a sparring session whereas Williams was working his arse off.
I was impressed by Williams he looked like a powerful middle, but IMO fought a bad fight by trying to mix it up with Eastman when you all had me believeing he was going to box. But guy was definitley ballsy as f#ck and way tougher than i thought before the fight.
Dunno how much it showed up on TV but Williams was visibly knackered by the 6th and taking huge gulps of air between rounds. Eastman was casually relaxing in his corner, oozed confidence like a guy who'd been there & done it more times than he could remember.
Also, Eastman has a f#ckin cement chin. Williams planted a few absolute dingers on his jaw and Eastman wouldn't even blink. If Williams comes back and fights anyone else for the title, iactually think he would win by a knockout. Unfortunately he was fighting one of the most experienced & durable guys in the game.
Also Eastmans technique was something to behold in person, nothing seems to ruffle him and i like the way he picks his shots, and the kayo was unbelievable, he was never getting up. He sort of looks like a big scary black cat up in there. Check out my photos thread i got a shot with Eastman, hes all long muscle and sinew up close in the flesh, aloof on camera in post-fight interviews but off camera in person such a real funny likeable excitable guy. Him and McCracken were total gentlemen i loved em!
Posted: 20 Dec 2006, 12:20
by DG.
overhand_right wrote:DG-
my impressions from ringside was that Howard was not carrying Williams at all, but def treating it more like a sparring session whereas Williams was working his arse off.
I was impressed by Williams he looked like a powerful middle, but IMO fought a bad fight by trying to mix it up with Eastman when you all had me believeing he was going to box. But guy was definitley ballsy as f#ck and way tougher than i thought before the fight.
Dunno how much it showed up on TV but Williams was visibly knackered by the 6th and taking huge gulps of air between rounds. Eastman was casually relaxing in his corner, oozed confidence like a guy who'd been there & done it more times than he could remember.
Also, Eastman has a f#ckin cement chin. Williams planted a few absolute dingers on his jaw and Eastman wouldn't even blink. If Williams comes back and fights anyone else for the title, iactually think he would win by a knockout. Unfortunately he was fighting one of the most experienced & durable guys in the game.
Also Eastmans technique was something to behold in person, nothing seems to ruffle him and i like the way he picks his shots, and the kayo was unbelievable, he was never getting up. He sort of looks like a big scary black cat up in there. Check out my photos thread i got a shot with Eastman, hes all long muscle and sinew up close in the flesh, aloof on camera in post-fight interviews but off camera in person such a real funny likeable excitable guy. Him and McCracken were total gentlemen i loved em!
Respect your views, mate.
Howard has a excellent chin - RW as you say will win the belt against anyone else. I actually had it a 50/50 fight going in..
The thing is - with Howard you HAVE to press the action and try and take him out of his stride.
RW is a come forward fighter everytime and he needs to do that to get his range of shots off.
Howard may have looked to some like it was a sparring session but I am sure he takes his career seriously and would not get in the ring with RW unprepared.
Yes RW was unlucky in that lesser fighters hold and have held the British and European - even the World belt and not had to fight someone as TOUGH as Eastman.
Hopefully will get a text from RW at some stage and I hope he is upbeat because he fought like a warrior against one of the Worlds best and held his own.
How many people go out on their sword like that in the 12th? - by the 12th it was KNOCK OUT OR BE KNOCKED OUT for RW and he went for it.
From TV it looked like he was exhausted by about the 9th - but he gutted it out.
I hope RW has a nice rest and comes back soon - he still has what it takes, No doubt about it.
Respect to Howard Eastman - he knows how to get the job done...
Maybe Dann will fight RW for the Commonwealth.
Posted: 20 Dec 2006, 16:25
by stujones
Goz wrote:I totally agree with DG, I don't think Eastman was carrying Williams at all, only possibly in the last round or two when Williams looked totally fooked he didn't force the stoppage although when Williams went for broke in the final round (which I thought was very brave by the way) Eastman put him away.
I think people are STILL being fooled by Eastman that he is fighting within himself all the time. Don't you get it? That's his style and that's how he fights, it's ok against domestic level opposition because he is accurate and strong but on the world stage he can't step up the output or general performance!
Good post Goz, completely agree.
Sorry DG, I was a little bit dissapointed in Williams. Not for a lack of effort - just thought he was closer to European level than that. I don't think Howard will ever win a world title. His best performance at the higher level was vs Abraham and for me none of his defeats have been controvesial. I think Howard is a top European level fighter, but a shade off world class.
I thought Williams was roughly around the same, maybe a little lower. However, I was a bit shocked at the ease Howard handled him. No he didn't carry him, but it was more convincing than I thought.
I'm not sure Williams should be chasing Scott Dann now (providing Scott returns to 100%) but maybe Wayne Elcock. Have to say though, after Friday my prediction has changed. Think Elcock will beat him.
Posted: 20 Dec 2006, 18:27
by ciscokid
DG. wrote:
Maybe Dann will fight RW for the Commonwealth.
Please explain why Williams, who has just lost at a shot for the British, should get a crack at the Commonwealth?
On TV they reported that Williams is a park ranger (?) and would be back to work on Monday - do you know if he took a lot of time off to train, or was training and working full time?
Posted: 21 Dec 2006, 06:01
by overhand_right
DG- if RW contacts you let us know his thoughts mate. Like i say, if he can fight at that level again, i cant see Dann or Elcock surviving. Williams can come again
Posted: 21 Dec 2006, 18:04
by DG.
stujones wrote:Goz wrote:I totally agree with DG, I don't think Eastman was carrying Williams at all, only possibly in the last round or two when Williams looked totally fooked he didn't force the stoppage although when Williams went for broke in the final round (which I thought was very brave by the way) Eastman put him away.
I think people are STILL being fooled by Eastman that he is fighting within himself all the time. Don't you get it? That's his style and that's how he fights, it's ok against domestic level opposition because he is accurate and strong but on the world stage he can't step up the output or general performance!
Good post Goz, completely agree.
Sorry DG, I was a little bit dissapointed in Williams. Not for a lack of effort - just thought he was closer to European level than that. I don't think Howard will ever win a world title. His best performance at the higher level was vs Abraham and for me none of his defeats have been controvesial. I think Howard is a top European level fighter, but a shade off world class.
I thought Williams was roughly around the same, maybe a little lower. However, I was a bit shocked at the ease Howard handled him. No he didn't carry him, but it was more convincing than I thought.
I'm not sure Williams should be chasing Scott Dann now (providing Scott returns to 100%) but maybe Wayne Elcock. Have to say though, after Friday my prediction has changed. Think Elcock will beat him.
From what I saw - Eastman greater experience told.
In a sense they cancelled eachother out to an extent...
I disagree that Elcock would beat RW.
Howard would destoy Elcock in 3 rounds.
Dann's chin would not hold up against RW..
RW is still better then the rest.. Howard would not take more than 7 round comnbunes to deal with Elcock and Dann..
Posted: 21 Dec 2006, 18:09
by DG.
overhand_right wrote:DG- if RW contacts you let us know his thoughts mate. Like i say, if he can fight at that level again, i cant see Dann or Elcock surviving. Williams can come again
Will do mate.
The RW of the 15th would destroy Elcock and Dann...
IMO - Dann wanted no part of RW before - now he may feel better about the fight - but I doubt it - Dann would not beat RW..
Posted: 21 Dec 2006, 18:10
by hitman_hatton1
i agree with ya DG.
williams beats the other domestic middles.
maybe some decent ones in europe as well.
Posted: 21 Dec 2006, 18:16
by DG.
hitman_hatton1 wrote:i agree with ya DG.
williams beats the other domestic middles.
maybe some decent ones in europe as well.
Waddup Hitman!
You - like me know what you are watching!
Howard is Howard and dangerous - he almnost had Moranda out of there Mid fight!.
RW has a lot left..
Not many step up to Howard Eastman and FIGHT.. B-Hop didn't!
Posted: 21 Dec 2006, 21:31
by states
Of course, Hopkins won a comfortable UD, whereas Williams found himself in the arms of the referee....... There's a lesson there DG.
Joking aside, I hope Williams comes again, I've always admired his skills in the ring. World-class is obviously out of his reach, but a Dann fight (if Scott ever fights again) would be great. As would battles against the likes of Elcock.
Posted: 22 Dec 2006, 02:41
by DG.
states wrote:Of course, Hopkins won a comfortable UD, whereas Williams found himself in the arms of the referee....... There's a lesson there DG.
Joking aside, I hope Williams comes again, I've always admired his skills in the ring. World-class is obviously out of his reach, but a Dann fight (if Scott ever fights again) would be great. As would battles against the likes of Elcock.
Well - it is a 'fight' after all.
Williams ha s a lot left an would deal with the Domestic fights - also some of the good Europeans if friday was anything to go by...
Posted: 22 Dec 2006, 09:45
by ciscokid
DG. wrote:
IMO - Dann wanted no part of RW before - now he may feel better about the fight - but I doubt it - Dann would not beat RW..
If Scott didn't want RW then why was he going to fight him?? Now Scott has a crook back, why would he feel better about the fight?
What about Lockett??
Posted: 22 Dec 2006, 10:23
by THEBUTCH
That was a cruel piece of luck for Dann and the fans.
McDermott's got an eliminator in February and I fully expect him to be breathing down the necks of Britains best soon (as long as he's not taken WBU route
)
Posted: 22 Dec 2006, 12:28
by overhand_right
DG. wrote:
Not many step up to Howard Eastman and FIGHT.. B-Hop didn't!
These were my thoughts watching it in the flesh. To mix it up head on with Eastman & survive you have to be a world level hard b#stard like Abraham. B-Hop fought a smart but boring fight. Had he tried out muscle or out punch Eastman he would have ended up like Williams.
Posted: 22 Dec 2006, 13:03
by jamesmcdonnell
Hmm, the words 'utter bollocks' spring to mind.
You are telling me that Eastman would have knocked Hopkins out?! Based on what? Eastman is a very good fighter, only just shy of world class, but every time he stepped up, he got beaten. Hopkins fought the way he wanted to fight and easily outclassed Eastman, had he been forced into a brawl, I am pretty confident that Hopkins would have toughed it out. Eastman is cagey, but Hopkins is every big as cagey and more, and knows every foul trick in the book.
Posted: 22 Dec 2006, 15:24
by Autobarn
overhand_right wrote:DG. wrote:
Not many step up to Howard Eastman and FIGHT.. B-Hop didn't!
These were my thoughts watching it in the flesh. To mix it up head on with Eastman & survive you have to be a world level hard b#stard like Abraham. B-Hop fought a smart but boring fight. Had he tried out muscle or out punch Eastman he would have ended up like Williams.
1 reason is that eastman is a good counter puncher. Good example being the Cherifi fight. No point walking into a counter puncher if you don't have to...poor Williams didn't have much of a hcance
Posted: 22 Dec 2006, 16:56
by DG.
ciscokid wrote:DG. wrote:
IMO - Dann wanted no part of RW before - now he may feel better about the fight - but I doubt it - Dann would not beat RW..
If Scott didn't want RW then why was he going to fight him?? Now Scott has a crook back, why would he feel better about the fight?
What about Lockett??
When the Dann Vs Williams fight was first mentioned - I had a feeling it would not happen... dont know why..
Who knows!
Lockett has the WBU shite...
Who wants that??..