BoxRec

samwbr wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:45 If Eubank wins where does Groves go next?

He might retire. He's been saying. He's the same age as Clev. But I don't think he can do it anymore.

He said he'd retire if he wins the WBSS as well.

samwbr wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:45 If Eubank wins where does Groves go next?

It depends on the manner of the loss.

If Groves losses easily then I'd expect him to walk. He's made plenty of money.

If he loses a close decision fight or on a a dodgy stoppage then I'm sure he'll carry on.

Funny thing is, Groves is only 18 months older than Eubank.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:46

samwbr wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:45 If Eubank wins where does Groves go next?

He might retire. He's been saying. He's the same age as Clev. But I don't think he can do it anymore.

He said he'd retire if he wins the WBSS as well.

Clev is 31 this Saturday while Groves still in his 20's.

OK, only just

In an interview with Donald McRae last week Groves said he hasn't made enough money to retire yet.

Taansend wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:39

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:33that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes),

Did someone on here actually say that

Chin's don't run in the family. Ask Vitali Klit

Taansend wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:39

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:33that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes),

Did someone on here actually say that

I've seen it at least 3 or 4 times over the last few weeks, I am sure.

Taansend wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:50 Clev is 31 this Saturday while Groves still in his 20's.

OK, only just

28 or something?

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:58

Taansend wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:50 Clev is 31 this Saturday while Groves still in his 20's.

OK, only just

28 or something?

Groves will be 30 in March. Eubank 29 in September.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:33 among the various reasons that have been given by various people for a Eubank win, its difficult to pick which is the more troubling assumption- that Eubank has punching power, that he is a skillful boxer (neither of which has he remotely proven at any kind of level), that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes), that he has this iron self-belief (that has never had to prove itself against serious competition)... I'm just at all the assumptions that have been made.

and it gets better, as from where I am sitting, even his supposed ace in the hole card, his real tangible supposed advantage is that he seems to have a good engine. and that has been proven largely by posting training montages on Instagram and throwing 50 punch combinations against people who are basically unable for various reasons to hit him back.

I mean ,this incredible engine (woooh he's such a beast you should see his training montages on Insta), we're talking about, has been into the 12th round 3 whole times

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:33 among the various reasons that have been given by various people for a Eubank win, its difficult to pick which is the more troubling assumption- that Eubank has punching power, that he is a skillful boxer (neither of which has he remotely proven at any kind of level), that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes), that he has this iron self-belief (that has never had to prove itself against serious competition)... I'm just at all the assumptions that have been made.

and it gets better, as from where I am sitting, even his supposed ace in the hole card, his real tangible supposed advantage is that he seems to have a good engine. and that has been proven largely by posting training montages on Instagram and throwing 50 punch combinations against people who are basically unable for various reasons to hit him back.

I mean ,this incredible engine (woooh he's such a beast you should see his training montages on Insta), we're talking about, has been into the 12th round 3 whole times

All valid points, but at the same time I'm not sure what exactly what Eubank Jnr can do more of - the division is not exactly loaded with talent. IMO he beat a geniune (at the time) top 10 level fighter in Arthur Abraham, who whilst over the edge, had in recent times still beaten the likes of Martin Murray etc. I'm not saying to Abraham is a master boxer, of course not, but outside of the super six, Ramirez and DeGale there wasn't that many ahead of Abraham. There were probably a few within the Super 6 that Abraham would beat - I think he would have started favourite against at least the four losers of the quarter finals and possibly Braehmer also. It's as good a win as anything Callum Smith has done - yet we do not seem to see the same level of criticism labelled at Smith.

Yes, his power - again valid point. However, in his 3 bouts at Super Middleweight the most recent of which ended in a fairly brutal KO. Abraham doesn't go down ever and Quinlan is also tough as boots. For a "non puncher" he has a record of 20KOs from 26 fights.... but at the flip side then his stamina is ALSO still questioned because he has only gone 12 rounds, 3 times. The reason why he's only gone 12 rounds three times is because he has KO'd the rest! IMO you cannot question his stamina AND his power, at the moment - Eubank's stamina and punch output has not been found particularly wanting... I'm prepared to put the Saunders fight as a learning fight for him. It's not just about the 50 second montages - its about him still pummeling Quinlan into the 10th round like it was the first round, it was like the comments Pascal / Steve Collins made when they pulled out Spike O Sullivan ("the game plan was to get him to slow down, he wasn't slowing down"). Yes, you are correct we cannot say he has proven stamina - but that's because he has an excellent KO record - so I think we have to tick at least the "puncher" column.

All of the criticisms labelled at Eubank, could be labelled at Callum Smith - and more.... both can only beat whats infront of him and both have beaten fairly decent fringe world level fighters quite handily.

The biggest reason though why Eubank is the favourite, is because Groves' has looked a little weary and aged of late. IMO, the Cox fight had a few heart in mouth moments in which he looked vulnerable, I don't think he looked at his best vs Chudinov also. The Groves that beat Murray and put in a clinic in the tragic fight vs Gutneckt would start favourite IMO - but Groves has looked more vulnerable of late.

stujones wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 13:22

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:33 among the various reasons that have been given by various people for a Eubank win, its difficult to pick which is the more troubling assumption- that Eubank has punching power, that he is a skillful boxer (neither of which has he remotely proven at any kind of level), that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes), that he has this iron self-belief (that has never had to prove itself against serious competition)... I'm just at all the assumptions that have been made.

and it gets better, as from where I am sitting, even his supposed ace in the hole card, his real tangible supposed advantage is that he seems to have a good engine. and that has been proven largely by posting training montages on Instagram and throwing 50 punch combinations against people who are basically unable for various reasons to hit him back.

I mean ,this incredible engine (woooh he's such a beast you should see his training montages on Insta), we're talking about, has been into the 12th round 3 whole times

All valid points, but at the same time I'm not sure what exactly what Eubank Jnr can do more of - the division is not exactly loaded with talent. IMO he beat a geniune (at the time) top 10 level fighter in Arthur Abraham, who whilst over the edge, had in recent times still beaten the likes of Martin Murray etc. I'm not saying to Abraham is a master boxer, of course not, but outside of the super six, Ramirez and DeGale there wasn't that many ahead of Abraham. There were probably a few within the Super 6 that Abraham would beat - I think he would have started favourite against at least the four losers of the quarter finals and possibly Braehmer also. It's as good a win as anything Callum Smith has done - yet we do not seem to see the same level of criticism labelled at Smith.

Yes, his power - again valid point. However, in his 3 bouts at Super Middleweight the most recent of which ended in a fairly brutal KO. Abraham doesn't go down ever and Quinlan is also tough as boots. For a "non puncher" he has a record of 20KOs from 26 fights.... but at the flip side then his stamina is ALSO still questioned because he has only gone 12 rounds, 3 times. The reason why he's only gone 12 rounds three times is because he has KO'd the rest! IMO you cannot question his stamina AND his power, at the moment - Eubank's stamina and punch output has not been found particularly wanting... I'm prepared to put the Saunders fight as a learning fight for him. It's not just about the 50 second montages - its about him still pummeling Quinlan into the 10th round like it was the first round, it was like the comments Pascal / Steve Collins made when they pulled out Spike O Sullivan ("the game plan was to get him to slow down, he wasn't slowing down"). Yes, you are correct we cannot say he has proven stamina - but that's because he has an excellent KO record - so I think we have to tick at least the "puncher" column.

All of the criticisms labelled at Eubank, could be labelled at Callum Smith - and more.... both can only beat whats infront of him and both have beaten fairly decent fringe world level fighters quite handily.

The biggest reason though why Eubank is the favourite, is because Groves' has looked a little weary and aged of late. IMO, the Cox fight had a few heart in mouth moments in which he looked vulnerable, I don't think he looked at his best vs Chudinov also. The Groves that beat Murray and put in a clinic in the tragic fight vs Gutneckt would start favourite IMO - but Groves has looked more vulnerable of late.

i think there are at least one maybe two category errors in there

(1) KO/ stoppage record = punching power? not really, hitting someone repeatedly in the face without them being concussed doesn't impress me that much, O Sullivan and Blackwell he hit billions of times

(2) IMO you cannot question his stamina AND his power, at the moment.

so its ezero-sum, either he MUST have great stamina or a great punch, on that logic? i don't see it. I can question the manner in which both of them have supposedly been proven, IE hitting people multiple times without them even looking close to being sparked, doesn't show power, IMO.
his stamina I'm more impressed with, but it is so, so easy to throw a load of punches at a heavy bag, which is essentially what CEJ has done so far in his career. someone actually moving/ hitting back/ making him eat shots/ making him tense and flinch/ etc: totally different.

What a price groves is. He should be heavy odds on and will spark junior.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 13:26

stujones wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 13:22

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:33 among the various reasons that have been given by various people for a Eubank win, its difficult to pick which is the more troubling assumption- that Eubank has punching power, that he is a skillful boxer (neither of which has he remotely proven at any kind of level), that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes), that he has this iron self-belief (that has never had to prove itself against serious competition)... I'm just at all the assumptions that have been made.

and it gets better, as from where I am sitting, even his supposed ace in the hole card, his real tangible supposed advantage is that he seems to have a good engine. and that has been proven largely by posting training montages on Instagram and throwing 50 punch combinations against people who are basically unable for various reasons to hit him back.

I mean ,this incredible engine (woooh he's such a beast you should see his training montages on Insta), we're talking about, has been into the 12th round 3 whole times

All valid points, but at the same time I'm not sure what exactly what Eubank Jnr can do more of - the division is not exactly loaded with talent. IMO he beat a geniune (at the time) top 10 level fighter in Arthur Abraham, who whilst over the edge, had in recent times still beaten the likes of Martin Murray etc. I'm not saying to Abraham is a master boxer, of course not, but outside of the super six, Ramirez and DeGale there wasn't that many ahead of Abraham. There were probably a few within the Super 6 that Abraham would beat - I think he would have started favourite against at least the four losers of the quarter finals and possibly Braehmer also. It's as good a win as anything Callum Smith has done - yet we do not seem to see the same level of criticism labelled at Smith.

Yes, his power - again valid point. However, in his 3 bouts at Super Middleweight the most recent of which ended in a fairly brutal KO. Abraham doesn't go down ever and Quinlan is also tough as boots. For a "non puncher" he has a record of 20KOs from 26 fights.... but at the flip side then his stamina is ALSO still questioned because he has only gone 12 rounds, 3 times. The reason why he's only gone 12 rounds three times is because he has KO'd the rest! IMO you cannot question his stamina AND his power, at the moment - Eubank's stamina and punch output has not been found particularly wanting... I'm prepared to put the Saunders fight as a learning fight for him. It's not just about the 50 second montages - its about him still pummeling Quinlan into the 10th round like it was the first round, it was like the comments Pascal / Steve Collins made when they pulled out Spike O Sullivan ("the game plan was to get him to slow down, he wasn't slowing down"). Yes, you are correct we cannot say he has proven stamina - but that's because he has an excellent KO record - so I think we have to tick at least the "puncher" column.

All of the criticisms labelled at Eubank, could be labelled at Callum Smith - and more.... both can only beat whats infront of him and both have beaten fairly decent fringe world level fighters quite handily.

The biggest reason though why Eubank is the favourite, is because Groves' has looked a little weary and aged of late. IMO, the Cox fight had a few heart in mouth moments in which he looked vulnerable, I don't think he looked at his best vs Chudinov also. The Groves that beat Murray and put in a clinic in the tragic fight vs Gutneckt would start favourite IMO - but Groves has looked more vulnerable of late.

i think there are at least one maybe two category errors in there

(1) KO/ stoppage record = punching power? not really, hitting someone repeatedly in the face without them being concussed doesn't impress me that much, O Sullivan and Blackwell he hit billions of times

(2) IMO you cannot question his stamina AND his power, at the moment.

so its ezero-sum, either he MUST have great stamina or a great punch, on that logic? i don't see it. I can question the manner in which both of them have supposedly been proven, IE hitting people multiple times without them even looking close to being sparked, doesn't show power, IMO.
his stamina I'm more impressed with, but it is so, so easy to throw a load of punches at a heavy bag, which is essentially what CEJ has done so far in his career. someone actually moving/ hitting back/ making him eat shots/ making him tense and flinch/ etc: totally different.

Again, valid points - but my main point was you can only beat what is in front of you and the impression some of these "anti" Eubank posts imply is that he has only faced bums.

BJS - You cannot really get much better than a world champion, Eubank was highly inexperienced did the 12 rounds better than Saunders - lost an incredibly narrow decision in which he controlled the last 3rd of the contest but off course that was an "unmotivated" Saunders.... How in the hell was BJS unmotivated in the biggest fight of his career.

Abraham - Tough as old boots, multiple time world champion - yes over the hill and outclassed vs Ramierez - but also beaten some decent fighters in the last few years. Not KO'ing Abraham shouldn't be a knock on Eubank's power.

Yildrim - Again was expected to test Eubank's stamina as he was considered a tough ombre with a decent record.

Nick Blackwell - solid domestic level British champion - again was supposed to be a fighter capable of doing the elements that you note in your last paragraph.

Spike O Sullivan - as Nick Blackwell, was again supposed to be more than just a punching bag and make Eubank tense and flinch etc.

Quinlan - Yeah, I'll give you that one - he was only supposed to be a punching bag.

You yourself said when we discussed "fatties with good stamina" and the example of Tyson Fury came up that moving around as much as he did vs Klitchsko is a sign of good stamina.... valid point.... but then surely it is the same for Eubank, throwing as many punches as he did for 36 minutes (or whenever the fight was stopped) showcased pretty nifty stamina, just like Klitchsko didn't test Fury or make him fight out of his comfort zone, neither did Abraham. The division is not stacked with P4P'ers. He's fought a former world champion ranked in the top 10, he's fought Yildrim who was supposed to be a small test, and at Middleweight he's fought some solid British title level guys who were expected to provide some test - but didn't.

Saunders' aside, he's past every test so far with flying colours and I think even the harshest of critic might give him a 2nd chance after he lost to Saunders. What happens if he sparks out Groves - still unproven? Groves is chinny? What happens if he dominates Groves as he did Spike O Sullivan - Groves didn't turn up? Proved nothing? He can only beat what is infront of him and he's beaten some pretty good fighters well to warrant this shot and at the moment there is NO evidence to say he cannot produce a similar type of display as he steps up in class.

However, the reason why I am making him the favourite vs Groves is not because of his training montages, or really his eye catching displays - but because Groves' hasn't looked right in his last two fights and these were against guys who I would give Arthur Abraham NOW a decent chance at winning.

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:03

Taansend wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 11:18 I still have no idea as to the outcome of this fight.

If Jnr overwhelmed Groves early or put on a boxing clinic I wouldn't be surprised.

If Groves starched Jnr with one punch or put on a beatdown I wouldn't be surprised.

And I wouldn't be surprised if we can't separate them after 12 rounds.

It's tough (for me) because Eubank is still an unknown quantity at this level while Groves can be fragile or tough depending on any given night.

I swear Eubank is the most overrated fighter of all time. Who has he beat? His best opponent was an unfit/un-bothered Saunders ages ago and he still lost

His not even that skilled. He throws wide shots, his footwork and positioning is amatuer and his head movement is hardly Mayweather

Couple that with being small as fvck for a super middle

Where on earth are people getting this 'he'll blow Groves away' crap from?

How is he even favourite?

he's talented and defo top 15 in the world but this over egging is ridiculous. Groves beat better opponents in his first 15 fights than Eubank has now, maybe excluding Abraham, who is old as sh1t

I hope you are right mate , nothing I would like to see more than the smugness wiped from his face , but I think you are underestimating how good he actually is .
Like I say , I hope your assessment of where he is , is correct

rd350lc wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 15:25

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 12:03

Taansend wrote: ↑13 Feb 2018, 11:18 I still have no idea as to the outcome of this fight.

If Jnr overwhelmed Groves early or put on a boxing clinic I wouldn't be surprised.

If Groves starched Jnr with one punch or put on a beatdown I wouldn't be surprised.

And I wouldn't be surprised if we can't separate them after 12 rounds.

It's tough (for me) because Eubank is still an unknown quantity at this level while Groves can be fragile or tough depending on any given night.

I swear Eubank is the most overrated fighter of all time. Who has he beat? His best opponent was an unfit/un-bothered Saunders ages ago and he still lost

His not even that skilled. He throws wide shots, his footwork and positioning is amatuer and his head movement is hardly Mayweather

Couple that with being small as fvck for a super middle

Where on earth are people getting this 'he'll blow Groves away' crap from?

How is he even favourite?

he's talented and defo top 15 in the world but this over egging is ridiculous. Groves beat better opponents in his first 15 fights than Eubank has now, maybe excluding Abraham, who is old as sh1t

I hope you are right mate , nothing I would like to see more than the smugness wiped from his face , but I think you are underestimating how good he actually is .
Like I say , I hope your assessment of where he is , is correct

He might be that good but how people are saying it now is insane. Skillwise, he's amatuer compared to BJS. The rest I've never seen him display. Never seen him display this cast iron amazing chin. Never seen him display this amazing engine (who's made him work that hard?). Never seen him spark anyone world class

forgetting Groves's best wins, him going 12 in a close one with Jack is so far ahead of any Eubank performance to date it isn't even funny

I fancied Eubank from the start but the closer the fight gets the more I'm leaning towards Groves. Watching them during their public workouts yesterday the size difference is massive. Bigger than what I initially thought. Groves is a very underrated body puncher and will look to slow Jnr down. I think it'll be a hell of a fight whatever happens. I can't really make any sort of prediction with any confidence!

What the 'experts' think.....

Watching the presser on seconds out and Kalle is absolutely off his tits

In the minority on here but I’ve got a very strong feeling Eubank is going to ko Groves in about four rounds

Pukka Cheese wrote: ↑14 Feb 2018, 14:17 Watching the presser on seconds out and Kalle is absolutely off his tits

He's always wired is Kalle! Loves to play in the snow

Terminator666 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2018, 14:20 In the minority on here but I’ve got a very strong feeling Eubank is going to ko Groves in about four rounds

I'll be honest it seems fairly split on here.

Just that the people picking Groves are more assertive in this instance.