BoxRec

banjo wrote:Oh I give credit to Dunne for beating Cordoba alright, I didn't think he could do it and he proved me wrong so well done to him but people are getting so carried away, they seem to forget that Caballero is the real WBA champion it's just that he had the nerve to unify with an undefeated IBF champion in Molitor so they gave him this "super champion" nonsense which left Cordoba upgraded from a "interim" champion to a "world" champion.

Oh and for the record Dunne beats Munroe comfortably possibly by stoppage.

knowitall wrote: Kiko has proved that :
a.)he can bang.
b.)that's about it.

Munroe has proved that :
a.) he can stay out of trouble (having the benefit of hindsight seeing what Martinez was capable of), and grind out a two laboured points wins over a very limited opponent.
b.) he can then go on to beat even more limited boxers (Bouita, Matiroysan, Trotta, and Nettey), looking average doing so.
c.) he is good boxer but can't punch for sh*t, is a slow starter and is pretty easy to hit even by the like of Trotta and Matrioysan.


Dunne has proved that :
a.) he can hang with the best technically.
b.) he can be put down but has very good recovery abilities.
c.) he has decent power.
d.) he is gritty and has a lot of heart
e.) the Kiko Matinez incident was a blip in his career.

Munroe's fans have proved that :
a.) they see the biggest achievement of Munroe's career as his defeat over Kiko Martinez, they see this as such an achievement because Martinez beat Dunne, but they still manitain that Dunne is a clubfighter, paper champion, glass chinned, not that good in the first place, lucky to have beat Cordoba, who himself was not that good....
but still the fact that Munroe beat the man who beat this "lucky, glass jawed, clubfighter" Dunne, is a big achievement?!!! (Am I the only one who dosen't understand this logic?)
b.) they are overrating Munroe bigtime based on this achievement.
c.) they do not understand that there is a big difference between a farmer from Ghana such as Nettey, and a proven world class boxer like Cordoba.
d.) they basically haven't got a clue about boxing.

Autobarn wrote:so, Jamie Moore and Rendall Munroe - in the WBC rankings. Moore in around #3 at 154, Munroe in at around #2 at 122.

Martinez for Moore

Nishioka for Munroe

Martinez doesn't seem popular in America, especially not after controversial bore draw v Cintron.

Nishioka doesn't seem popular in Japan, as he defended his title in Mexico last time.

Martinez's promoter DiBella told Maloney to "put up or shut ip" - i.e. make an offer and we'll come to you.

Which of the 2 fights is more likely to happen? Would the Maloney fighters be willing to travel? In particular, would Munroe go to Japan for it?

Autobarn wrote:definitely - perhaps even over here, otherwise it'll be a long wait - waiting for US TV date, etc. I'm a believer in Moore, I really hope he gets the title, and I hope he can attract some big names up from welterweight. Margarito sans brass knuckless, Cotto with his ever dwindling stamina. I am biased toward pressure fighters, I believe in a number of British/Irish ones and their abilities.

somehow i can't see Munroe taking his council jacket to Japan. Hope I'm wrong. I wonder if Nishioka will come over here, what it would take to bring him over and whether Fraink's coffers are deep enough and whether Sky Sports even want Munroe as anything more than a domestic or Euro champ.

I mean Jamie Moore is smashing guys up in EBU title fights whereas Munroe's fights have got a little repetitive and he's not shown that much dominance thoughI credit him for Martinez wins.

lirva wrote:

knowitall wrote: Kiko has proved that :
a.)he can bang.
b.)that's about it.

Munroe has proved that :
a.) he can stay out of trouble (having the benefit of hindsight seeing what Martinez was capable of), and grind out a two laboured points wins over a very limited opponent.
b.) he can then go on to beat even more limited boxers (Bouita, Matiroysan, Trotta, and Nettey), looking average doing so.
c.) he is good boxer but can't punch for sh*t, is a slow starter and is pretty easy to hit even by the like of Trotta and Matrioysan.


Dunne has proved that :
a.) he can hang with the best technically.
b.) he can be put down but has very good recovery abilities.
c.) he has decent power.
d.) he is gritty and has a lot of heart
e.) the Kiko Matinez incident was a blip in his career.

Munroe's fans have proved that :
a.) they see the biggest achievement of Munroe's career as his defeat over Kiko Martinez, they see this as such an achievement because Martinez beat Dunne, but they still manitain that Dunne is a clubfighter, paper champion, glass chinned, not that good in the first place, lucky to have beat Cordoba, who himself was not that good....
but still the fact that Munroe beat the man who beat this "lucky, glass jawed, clubfighter" Dunne, is a big achievement?!!! (Am I the only one who dosen't understand this logic?)
b.) they are overrating Munroe bigtime based on this achievement.
c.) they do not understand that there is a big difference between a farmer from Ghana such as Nettey, and a proven world class boxer like Cordoba.
d.) they basically haven't got a clue about boxing.

Well to be honest mate I never actually mentioned Munroes name in the thread at all, so you made a post full of assumptions there.

You just downgrade Kikos win over Dunne. He absolutely embarrassed that man and treated him like a child in there. He gave him the hiding of his life. Munroe didn't have such problems and outboxed Kiko, something Dunne couldn't do. So you'd have to say Munroe is better at outboxing Kiko than Dunne. You mentioned Munroe had the benefit of seeing what Kiko had, but one look at his record pre-dunne would have been enough to tell Dunne all he needed to know, yet he still got sparked.

For the record, I'm not even a big Munroe fan.

I just love how the Dunne fans talk as if the Kiko loss was nothing. I believe Kiko would do the same thing again, quite easily. We'll never see the fight though.

Dunne fans argue with Munroe fans but they don't seem to be able to grasp the point that Munroe easily outboxed a guy who almost killed Dunne in the ring in about 60 seconds. Yet Dunne has proven he's a better boxer? Oh I forgot, the Kiko loss doesn't matter. Why not talk about his fight that he lost in America then against Valdez? That was a gift decision if I ever saw one. Why not talk about Yuri Voronin of all people having him all over the place.

No, lets all focus on the Cordoba fight where he was lucky not to be stopped and was fighting a guy who isn't that good imo.

Fact is, neither Munroe or Dunne are world class imo. Either one would be obliterated by Juanma. I do think Munroe is better than Dunne, skillwise and certainly punch resistance wise. But its not by much. They are both much of a muchness if you ask me, with Dunne being SEVERELY overrated by some people on this board. His relatives probably.

Terry D wrote:Ah, another grim and boring Dunne/Munroe thread, tremendous (no offence to Autobarn, the thread deviated a little bit from the original point).

Credit to Munroe for beating the dangerman Kiko, Dunne should fight him again, but if he did he would be KO'd, so he is making a wise move in steering clear of him. Anyhow, Munroe did Dunne a favour, making Kiko less credible as a foe by beating him, twice.

Terry D wrote:Ah, another grim and boring Dunne/Munroe thread, tremendous (no offence to Autobarn, the thread deviated a little bit from the original point).

Credit to Munroe for beating the dangerman Kiko, Dunne should fight him again, but if he did he would be KO'd, so he is making a wise move in steering clear of him. Anyhow, Munroe did Dunne a favour, making Kiko less credible as a foe by beating him, twice.

Terry D wrote:

Badass wrote:

Terry D wrote:Ah, another grim and boring Dunne/Munroe thread, tremendous (no offence to Autobarn, the thread deviated a little bit from the original point).

Credit to Munroe for beating the dangerman Kiko, Dunne should fight him again, but if he did he would be KO'd, so he is making a wise move in steering clear of him. Anyhow, Munroe did Dunne a favour, making Kiko less credible as a foe by beating him, twice.

I think it's time Rendall Munroe got off the Kiko train, I mean he beat Kiko twice, so what? I would pick any half decent super bantam to beat Kiko Martinez if they box clever, including Dunne who would beat him in a rematch. Time for Munroe to put up or shut up but to be perfectly honest Nishioka would flatten him, I am sure of this. He would walk through Munroe's punches easily. I don't think the binman has the balls to fight Nishioka anyway but we shall see.

He had the balls to fight Kiko, who was the train wot had just ran Dunne over.

Anyway, respect to both men, I'd pick Munroe should they fight, but not with a huge amount of confidence.

Terry D wrote:

Badass wrote:

Terry D wrote:Ah, another grim and boring Dunne/Munroe thread, tremendous (no offence to Autobarn, the thread deviated a little bit from the original point).

Credit to Munroe for beating the dangerman Kiko, Dunne should fight him again, but if he did he would be KO'd, so he is making a wise move in steering clear of him. Anyhow, Munroe did Dunne a favour, making Kiko less credible as a foe by beating him, twice.

I think it's time Rendall Munroe got off the Kiko train, I mean he beat Kiko twice, so what? I would pick any half decent super bantam to beat Kiko Martinez if they box clever, including Dunne who would beat him in a rematch. Time for Munroe to put up or shut up but to be perfectly honest Nishioka would flatten him, I am sure of this. He would walk through Munroe's punches easily. I don't think the binman has the balls to fight Nishioka anyway but we shall see.

He had the balls to fight Kiko, who was the train wot had just ran Dunne over.

Anyway, respect to both men, I'd pick Munroe should they fight, but not with a huge amount of confidence.

Badass wrote:
Yeah and it's time Munroe stopped milking that sh*t though, he beat the guy who caught Dunne cold, big swinging dick! Dunne has redeemed himself and more since, Munroe has fought borefest after borefest against Italy's and Ghana's finest.

He didn't have the balls to fight Cordoba though did he?

I'm not suprised you pick Munroe without a huge amount of confidence.
I pick Dunne with 100% confidence.

lirva wrote:

Badass wrote:
Yeah and it's time Munroe stopped milking that sh*t though, he beat the guy who caught Dunne cold, big swinging dick! Dunne has redeemed himself and more since, Munroe has fought borefest after borefest against Italy's and Ghana's finest.

He didn't have the balls to fight Cordoba though did he?

I'm not suprised you pick Munroe without a huge amount of confidence.
I pick Dunne with 100% confidence.

Badass, just out of interest, what do you think the result would be in these fights?

Dunne vs Juanma Lopez
Dunne vs Vasquez
Dunne vs Caballero
Dunne vs Rafa Marquez


A simple prediction is all I'm looking for, nothing too detailed. (e.g Dunne UD).

Don't sit on the fence, actually pick a winner for all fights.

Terry D wrote:

Badass wrote:
Yeah and it's time Munroe stopped milking that sh*t though, he beat the guy who caught Dunne cold, big swinging dick! Dunne has redeemed himself and more since, Munroe has fought borefest after borefest against Italy's and Ghana's finest.

He didn't have the balls to fight Cordoba though did he?

I'm not suprised you pick Munroe without a huge amount of confidence.
I pick Dunne with 100% confidence.

Well, that's me told, I'm off to top myself, but before I do I'll say this...

'Getting caught cold' is boxing shorthand for 'My guy got the granny spanked out of him in round one, I cannot think of a better excuse.' I was at the fight and if, indeed, Dunne did get caught cold it was a bit odd, as the venue was red-hot, the atmosphere was jumping, and he was in with a dangerous hombre. He is paid to start work when they bell goes 'ding', he didn't, so he went 'dong'. He got to his feet, but it was over. He should have been on his game from 0.01 of the round, so the blame lies with him.

You seem to imply that 24-rounds against a guy Dunne lost to in one is a black mark on Munroe, that puzzles me, tremendously.

Also, Dunne's last fight was exciting because of his vulnerabilities, we've yet to see what it has taken out of him. 100% confidence is misplaced in boxing, unless you are talking Tyson-Lewis, in which case you can have 110% confidence in Lewis, but Dunne is no Lewis, Munroe no Tyson, so my confidence on the outcome is 49-51%, with the swing depending on how many Irish men make it back from the toilets in time for the ring entrances, if you will pardon the (near) pun.

As for Munroe not having the balls to fight Cordoba, well he fought Kiko, who Dunne has not got the balls to rematch, so the two things cancel one another out, unless, this is where it gets mad, Dunne would take the Kiko fight in an instant, but his promoter is keeping him from it, as it is high-risk low-reward at this moment. Blow me, maybe Munroe, you know, the professional fighter, would take the Cordoba fight also, but his promoter has not managed to make it happen, so it is less a sign that he is scared, more a sign that the fight was not made.

Anyho', nothing like a Dunne-Munroe thread for inspiring the thought, "I do like Dunne, but would love Munroe to win in order to shut Dunne's fans (most of whom were ripping him post-Kiko) the F up." Actually, that was three thoughts, and an observation.

Peace.

Badass wrote: It is just a win over a limited boxer !

Terry D wrote:

Badass wrote:Nice try but you are wrong Terry, Dunne was caught cold. Caught cold is being hit with a shot that you cannot recover from as you are COLD, not warmed up and into the fight. That is what happened, like it or not!

Again with the whole Dunne/Munroe/Martinez thing! What is so hard to understand about this concept?! Dunne getting ko'd in a round does not make Munroe's win over Martinez a mammoth achievement. It is just a win over a limited boxer who can punch, no more, no less. Dunne's loss was bad, Munroe's win was good, but just good, not f*cking spectacular like some people imply!

I've not said it was spectacular, knocking someone bandy in a round is spectacular. As for the cold thing. You are mistaken. Dunne was not caught cold, he was knocked cold, because he was hit on his chin, and his chin is not up to that type of thing, Dunne has many gifts, a chin is not one of them.

If Dunne got hit with shots like that in round five of the fight he would have gone. It was not a cold-cock fluke. He was wiped out.

lirva wrote:

Badass wrote: It is just a win over a limited boxer !

First of all, you lost most of the credibility you had by picking Dunne to beat Vasquez.

Secondly, if a win over a limited boxer means nothing, then what does a loss to a limited boxer mean?

Problem is, you talk as if Dunne is better than Kiko when we have seen that Kiko almost killed him in the ring the only time they met. Dunne can't handle pressure fighters like Kiko and we saw what happened. And the chances are, it would happen again, hence the reason why Dunne won't fight him again.

What you are doing is downgrading that win by saying it was a fluke when its clear to all that Dunne is extremely fragile and losing to an aggressive come-forward fighter like Kiko (who Munroe MADE look very very limited, which he deserves credit for) is no surprise. I would pick Kiko to beat him again and I presume most non-irish people would too. Funny thing is, I am actually Irish.

lirva wrote:

Badass wrote: It is just a win over a limited boxer !

First of all, you lost most of the credibility you had by picking Dunne to beat Vasquez.

Secondly, if a win over a limited boxer means nothing, then what does a loss to a limited boxer mean?

Problem is, you talk as if Dunne is better than Kiko when we have seen that Kiko almost killed him in the ring the only time they met. Dunne can't handle pressure fighters like Kiko and we saw what happened. And the chances are, it would happen again, hence the reason why Dunne won't fight him again.

What you are doing is downgrading that win by saying it was a fluke when its clear to all that Dunne is extremely fragile and losing to an aggressive come-forward fighter like Kiko (who Munroe MADE look very very limited, which he deserves credit for) is no surprise. I would pick Kiko to beat him again and I presume most non-irish people would too. Funny thing is, I am actually Irish.

lirva wrote:

Badass wrote: It is just a win over a limited boxer !

First of all, you lost most of the credibility you had by picking Dunne to beat Vasquez.

Secondly, if a win over a limited boxer means nothing, then what does a loss to a limited boxer mean?

Problem is, you talk as if Dunne is better than Kiko when we have seen that Kiko almost killed him in the ring the only time they met. Dunne can't handle pressure fighters like Kiko and we saw what happened. And the chances are, it would happen again, hence the reason why Dunne won't fight him again.

What you are doing is downgrading that win by saying it was a fluke when its clear to all that Dunne is extremely fragile and losing to an aggressive come-forward fighter like Kiko (who Munroe MADE look very very limited, which he deserves credit for) is no surprise. I would pick Kiko to beat him again and I presume most non-irish people would too. Funny thing is, I am actually Irish.

Beeston wrote:

lirva wrote:

Badass wrote: It is just a win over a limited boxer !

First of all, you lost most of the credibility you had by picking Dunne to beat Vasquez.

Secondly, if a win over a limited boxer means nothing, then what does a loss to a limited boxer mean?

Problem is, you talk as if Dunne is better than Kiko when we have seen that Kiko almost killed him in the ring the only time they met. Dunne can't handle pressure fighters like Kiko and we saw what happened. And the chances are, it would happen again, hence the reason why Dunne won't fight him again.

What you are doing is downgrading that win by saying it was a fluke when its clear to all that Dunne is extremely fragile and losing to an aggressive come-forward fighter like Kiko (who Munroe MADE look very very limited, which he deserves credit for) is no surprise. I would pick Kiko to beat him again and I presume most non-irish people would too. Funny thing is, I am actually Irish.

This.

Badass wrote:

lirva wrote:

Badass wrote: It is just a win over a limited boxer !

First of all, you lost most of the credibility you had by picking Dunne to beat Vasquez.

Secondly, if a win over a limited boxer means nothing, then what does a loss to a limited boxer mean?

Problem is, you talk as if Dunne is better than Kiko when we have seen that Kiko almost killed him in the ring the only time they met. Dunne can't handle pressure fighters like Kiko and we saw what happened. And the chances are, it would happen again, hence the reason why Dunne won't fight him again.

What you are doing is downgrading that win by saying it was a fluke when its clear to all that Dunne is extremely fragile and losing to an aggressive come-forward fighter like Kiko (who Munroe MADE look very very limited, which he deserves credit for) is no surprise. I would pick Kiko to beat him again and I presume most non-irish people would too. Funny thing is, I am actually Irish.

Ok try to work with me here as I realise you may be struggling with this very simple reasoning :

Dunne is a better boxer than Kiko, hands down, better by miles in most departments - skill, speed, technique, variety, ring smarts, etc, etc.
Dunne is a world class boxer, who has fought at a higher level than Kiko.
This tells me that he is indeed better than Kiko.

Kiko is the bigger puncher, he beat Dunne fair and square, he got the job done, he used the one weapon at his disposal, aided in no small part by Dunne's lack of defense and his cockiness on the night.
The loss for Dunne was very bad especially considering how easy he would have dealt with Martinez if he had used his defense and skill to weather the Martinez storm for the first few rounds, as he has done plenty of times before and after against pressure fighters.
This tells me that Kiko was better (on the night), but in no way is he better than Dunne overall.
Dunne beats Kiko in the rematch in my opinion.

Munroe beat Martinez, fair play, good win, but take Dunne out of the equation and the fact is, Munroe beat a one trick pony by boxing clever and staying out of the way, congratulations Rendall, give the guy a f*cking medal, this must mean that he has the edge over Dunne cos he done what Bernard did not do (not could not do, but did not do on the night). This must mean that Rendall is world class. This must mean that everything that Dunne had going for him prior to the Kiko fight is erased and Munroe inherits it, as he beat Kiko!
It was a good win, but it is an overrated win.

So to summarise,

Dunne loses to Kiko (a very limited fighter) = very bad loss to an average opponent
Munroe beats Kiko (a very limited fighter) - good wins over an average opponent

lirva wrote:

Badass wrote:

Badass wrote:
First of all, you lost most of the credibility you had by picking Dunne to beat Vasquez.

Secondly, if a win over a limited boxer means nothing, then what does a loss to a limited boxer mean?

Problem is, you talk as if Dunne is better than Kiko when we have seen that Kiko almost killed him in the ring the only time they met. Dunne can't handle pressure fighters like Kiko and we saw what happened. And the chances are, it would happen again, hence the reason why Dunne won't fight him again.

What you are doing is downgrading that win by saying it was a fluke when its clear to all that Dunne is extremely fragile and losing to an aggressive come-forward fighter like Kiko (who Munroe MADE look very very limited, which he deserves credit for) is no surprise. I would pick Kiko to beat him again and I presume most non-irish people would too. Funny thing is, I am actually Irish.

The difference is that I don't think Dunne could beat Kiko if they fought again. He'd get blasted out again imo. Doesn't have the skill to beat Kiko, AS HE HAS SHOWN. Until he beats Kiko, Kiko HAS to be considered the better fighter, considering he almost killed Dunne in the ring. You can't say Dunne is the better fighter than Kiko, especially when Kiko has demolished him and embarrassed him in about 60 seconds in DUBLIN.

Kiko was the best pressure fighter Dunne fought and he folded like a deck of cards. That's not a coincidence.

The same goes for Khan and Prescott. Even if Khan beats Kotelnik, Prescott is still considered a better fighter than Khan in my book, in terms of a head to head fight.