BoxRec

I Feel Fine wrote:I think Lewis clearly has to be ranked ahead of Tyson. Lewis in my view is clearly top ten all time as a Heavyweight, while Tyson is lucky if he makes the top ten at all. As to who wins between Mike at his best and Lennox at his I would favor Lewis, though if Tyson did win I suppose I would not be too surprised.

Lewis being smashed at his peak by a guy like McCall brings him back to the pack.

GI

I recall that as well. But that is once again media hear say and dribble.
Either to build up a fight, to build up George or to bring down Tyson, in
any case it means little.

I honestly do not think Tyson ducked Foreman as much as you could say
he ducked Mercer, Morrison, Moorer, Bowe, Grant, Cooney, Cooper, Briggs,
Tua, etc etc etc.

Last time I recall, Foreman struggled with a past it, coked up Qawi who was
a late minute entrant in prep to their 1989 bout. Hard to imagine what a
1989 Tyson would have done to that same Foreman.

Collins2000 wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I'll be sure to return the favour when you make a mistake in your writing.

Must be having fun, Collins

Keep looking, Irene.

I think before I post; that's what makes us so different.

That's what makes your posts so sad.

Perhaps you can resolve this by threatening to, "meet me in person" again. Ouch. Clearly, I mean a lot more to you than you do to me. That the punishment for being a perceived Ali hater, nowadays? A street fight with you?

Robinson wrote:GI

I recall that as well. But that is once again media hear say and dribble.
Either to build up a fight, to build up George or to bring down Tyson, in
any case it means little.

I honestly do not think Tyson ducked Foreman as much as you could say
he ducked Mercer, Morrison, Moorer, Bowe, Grant, Cooney, Cooper, Briggs,
Tua, etc etc etc.

Last time I recall, Foreman struggled with a past it, coked up Qawi who was
a late minute entrant in prep to their 1989 bout. Hard to imagine what a
1989 Tyson would have done to that same Foreman.

Not saying Tyson had a specific reason to fear Foreman, just that it appears he did. At any rate, I think he could've accomplished a lot more with his talents. You honestly don't think so?

Collins2000 wrote:

I Feel Fine wrote:I think Lewis clearly has to be ranked ahead of Tyson. Lewis in my view is clearly top ten all time as a Heavyweight, while Tyson is lucky if he makes the top ten at all. As to who wins between Mike at his best and Lennox at his I would favor Lewis, though if Tyson did win I suppose I would not be too surprised.

Lewis being smashed at his peak by a guy like McCall brings him back to the pack.

Surely Lewis would be rated a lot higher had that not happened. But I still think he ranks ahead of Tyson, and I still would make him a favorite at his best to beat Tyson at his. I wouldn't say that those were Lewis' best years, anyway. Lewis got better as he got older, while for Tyson it was the opposite.

Yes, Lennox was definitely better.

He was more accomplished and overall did better against common opponents.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I'll be sure to return the favour when you make a mistake in your writing.

Must be having fun, Collins

Keep looking, Irene.

I think before I post; that's what makes us so different.

That's what makes your posts so great.

Perhaps you can resolve this by threatening to, "meet me in person" again. Ouch. Clearly, I mean a lot more to you than you do to me. That the punishment for being a perceived Ali hater, nowadays? A good fisting? I'm up for that:lol:

Here she is again. The fat lass that no one will talk to. Is that why you keep trying to chat me up, Tubby?

Look, my advise is for you to start yet another pointless thread. Something like "Sliding greats". That way you get to feel like you are communicating with men and I get to watch your pathetic effort quickly slide down the page. It's a win - win situation, Irene.

the answer to this question is easy when really think about,

would a peak lewis fight a peak tyson, i dont think he would.

but tyson would fight anyone in their peak.

lewis fights best agaist taller fighters so that he can hit and hold.
but agaist tyson he would have little success,
as iron mike would roll under lewis attempt to to grab him
and reply with his cracker jacks.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Robinson wrote:GI

I recall that as well. But that is once again media hear say and dribble.
Either to build up a fight, to build up George or to bring down Tyson, in
any case it means little.

I honestly do not think Tyson ducked Foreman as much as you could say
he ducked Mercer, Morrison, Moorer, Bowe, Grant, Cooney, Cooper, Briggs,
Tua, etc etc etc.

Last time I recall, Foreman struggled with a past it, coked up Qawi who was
a late minute entrant in prep to their 1989 bout. Hard to imagine what a
1989 Tyson would have done to that same Foreman.

Not saying Tyson had a specific reason to fear Foreman, just that it appears he did. At any rate, I think he could've accomplished a lot more with his talents. You honestly don't think so?

I think Corbett, Jeffries, Dempsey and so on could have accomplished alot more
had they not been racists.
Holyfield could have had he not gone too silly on the err...meds among other things..
Lewis had he not lost interest...
Most the 1980s boxers had they not discovered coke and box....

Tyson is no different to any other athlete in the 24/7 era of celebrity surrounded
by temptation, vice and bad influence. In his 5 'good years' he did a lot more than
what other fighters have done in decades. So that is pretty good considering...but
like anyone...they could have done better......and no doubt worse :)

You can point to the Douglas fight and use that to say this is how
Lewis would have beaten Tyson./..... that however was not a peak
Tyson as such.

Others could point to Lewis-McCall or Lewis-Mercer to suggest how
Tyson would beat a peak Tyson...but many would argue that Lewis
was having an off night.

In any case, Lewis never faced anyone like Tyson....Tua included.
Tyson faced a lot of men that had the style and attributes that Lewis
did, and he did well against them.

I don't think that Lennox Lewis was better than the great Mike Tyson. The night of June 27, 1988 confirmed this.

I think people really over look how an impressive win it was for Tyson
to destroy Spinks.

But I guess the experts in the boxing media say that Spinks was
petrified of Tyson and had no fight in him...yawwnn.....leather shoes,
cigar smoke, brandy and a hat does not give one the insight into
a fighters mind...though so long as they push those letters on the
type writer, they will know better.

Tyson is better than Lewis because he beat Spinks? Lennox Lewis would have KO'd Spinks just as easily. And, as someone else pointed out, Lewis generally did better against common opponents.

IFF,
So Michael Spinks of say.... 1985 would stop the 1988 Tyson?

Collins2000 wrote:

I Feel Fine wrote:I think Lewis clearly has to be ranked ahead of Tyson. Lewis in my view is clearly top ten all time as a Heavyweight, while Tyson is lucky if he makes the top ten at all. As to who wins between Mike at his best and Lennox at his I would favor Lewis, though if Tyson did win I suppose I would not be too surprised.

Lewis being smashed at his peak by a guy like McCall brings him back to the pack.

Lewis was at his peak in the early-90's? The Boxing guru exhibits his (lack of) knowledge. Not even close, old chum. Common knowledge he improved well into the late-90's, & was clumsy & sported a more limited skill-set, pre-Stewart.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

I Feel Fine wrote:I think Lewis clearly has to be ranked ahead of Tyson. Lewis in my view is clearly top ten all time as a Heavyweight, while Tyson is lucky if he makes the top ten at all. As to who wins between Mike at his best and Lennox at his I would favor Lewis, though if Tyson did win I suppose I would not be too surprised.

Lewis being smashed at his peak by a guy like McCall brings him back to the pack.

Lewis was at his peak in the early-90's? The Boxing guru exhibits his (lack of) knowledge. Not even close, old chum. Common knowledge he improved well into the late-90's, & was clumsy & sported a more limited skill-set, pre-Stewart.

Possibly. Then the same thing happened against Rahman. I suppose he was past his prime then. Is that the excuse, Irene?

It was Oceans 11's fault then.

running man wrote:the answer to this question is easy when really think about,

would a peak lewis fight a peak tyson, i dont think he would.

but tyson would fight anyone in their peak.

What is the basis for these claims?

I fail to see why destroying Spinks like that was such a great accomplishment . . he shouldn't have had the 'linear' title anyway since he got a clear gift in the Holmes rematch. Does anyone doubt a prime Lewis doesn't take out Spinks within 3 rounds?

What else did the Jinx do above 175 . . beat up an inactive, alcoholic Cooney?

As for a prime for prime matchup, I think an objective viewpoint points to this matchup really being 50/50. Neither guy fought a guy on that level in their careers. The 88 Tyson was much better than Tua but the 98 Lewis was much better than Tony Tucker.

kingfinn wrote:Yes,

Tyson didnt fight anyone who was good and in their prime apart from those who beat him. Lewis still beat Vitali while he was out of shape and ready to retire. Even if tyson and lewis had faught when tyson was in his prime, lewis would have out thought tyson in the ring and used that jab against him to stop in in his tracks and then hit him with that right.

Are you kidding?

First of all, Tyson fought the toughest challengers and champions in the days of his prime. He made them look like bums the way he was knocking them out.

Secondly, Lennox's jab wouldn't have done squat against a fast, hard to hit, constantly moving, Tyson. Tyson got up in the opponent's defense and destroyed whatever his fists hit, period. I seen his past fights more times than I can count. The only reason why Tyson lost to Lewis is because he wasn't fast anymore and he didn't let his hands go... or should I say, couldn't let his hands go.

Dude, Lennox has a style that doesn't require athleticism, granted... but if you wanna compare these two, Tyson was by far the best of the two by reason of natural ability. And getting to his size... at 5'11 Tyson should have been jabbed out of existence, but nobody could do it until he lost his desire, and subsequently his speed. The only person to beat Tyson was Tyson, bottomline.

-jugg

Robinson wrote:It was Oceans 11's fault then.

As Larry Merchant said it... "Lennox just drowned in Ocean's 11"

Classic.

Robinson wrote:You can point to the Douglas fight and use that to say this is how
Lewis would have beaten Tyson./..... that however was not a peak
Tyson as such.

Others could point to Lewis-McCall or Lewis-Mercer to suggest how
Tyson would beat a peak Tyson...but many would argue that Lewis
was having an off night.

In any case, Lewis never faced anyone like Tyson....Tua included.
Tyson faced a lot of men that had the style and attributes that Lewis
did, and he did well against them.

Word...

To go even further with this, Tyson beat himself against Douglas. Tyson didn't train properly and he took Douglas as a joke... oh by the way, do any of you realize how fragile Tyson's emotions were and are? This guy lost a father figure, was surrounded by wolves, married a dispicable woman who destroyed his self-esteem on national television, got accused of rape, went to jail AND STILL came back to win another title. But let's face it, Tyson was never the same...

Now if Lennox was drinking a spot 'o tea during the days of his career, then this argument is worthless. Got mad love for Lewis but Tyson accomplished a lot in the ring all the while his life was crumbling around him; he was not mentally prepared for the things he went through.

AND DON'T FRONT!.... YOU ALL KNOW BACK IN THE DAY YOU ALL WERE THINKING TYSON WAS UNBEATABLE! Now in hind-sight folks want to change their tune... oh please.

-jugg

Robinson wrote: In any case, Lewis never faced anyone like Tyson....Tua included.
Tyson faced a lot of men that had the style and attributes that Lewis
did, and he did well against them.

Where's the logic in that? Tua is to Tyson what Tucker is to Lewis... if Tua doesn't cut it then neither does Tucker.

of corse lewis is better mike tyson fought washed up people all the time tyson got no heart !

Well for starters Tua never won a fight that mattered.
Tucker did.

Tucker was a champion and managed to stay relevant
for a good time. Tuaman had a shorter period of 'dominance'.

Lets have a look...

Tony Tucker...
A win over past it name Jimmy Young, helps give him some
cred.
Beats James Broad and Buster Douglas to land him a IBF title
and a shot at Tyson.
Tyson hands him his first loss, a decision.
Beats Orlin Norris and Oliver McCall and slowly makes his come
back.
Starts to slide by the time of the Lewis fight...


David Tua...

Flash KO over Ruiz makes people take note of him.
Stops Izon and Maskaev.
After the Ike loss, he gets a stoppage win over Rahman, he is
back into things.
After the Lewis and Byrd losses his best wins are over a past
it Moorer, a draw against Rahman and a good stoppage over
Oquendo.

Tua fell short every time he needed to step it up, Tucker atleast
won some of the fights he needed to.


Daniel,
You say Tyson fought washed up people all the time...Lewis never did
this ??? And who were the washed up people Tyson always fought ?

DF,
I think Lewis beats Spinks, maybe not in 3. I agree that he got a
gift over Holmes in the rematch.