Was Lennox Lewis Better Than Mike Tyson

[Lawton2009]

I Think Lennox Lewis Was Better Than Mike Tyson
Please Discuss

[Finn]

Yes,

Tyson didnt fight anyone who was good and in their prime apart from those who beat him. Lewis still beat Vitali while he was out of shape and ready to retire. Even if tyson and lewis had faught when tyson was in his prime, lewis would have out thought tyson in the ring and used that jab against him to stop in in his tracks and then hit him with that right.

[Adamj1987]

comparing carriers yes but prime vs prime no i think tyson would have won late on it hink it would of been similar tactics to the bonecrusher fight except more competitive

[Finn]

comparing carriers yes but prime vs prime no i think tyson would have won late on it hink it would of been similar tactics to the bonecrusher fight except more competitive

cant see it especially not late on.

[meade95]

Prime Vs Prime.....I would take Tyson by mid round TKO/KO.

Lennox's biggest wins were Vs a faded Holyfield (who he basically split two fights with) and a terribly faded Tyson.

I think while Lennox used his natural size incredibly well, smartly and always was a true professional....I believe both a prime Tyson and Holyfield would have stopped Lennox ....Prime for Prime...

[jimglen]

Not a chance!!!

[Rocky Balboa]

An emphatic NO! Prime vs Prime, Tyson was the better fighter! A peak Tyson was far more talented than Lewis was at any stage of his career!

[alexpaterson]

In terms of opposition fought Lewis wins everytime and in a fight I think Lewis wins prime for prime so yes Lewis was better than Tyson. I see the fight going like this
1-4 Early goings Lewis just uses his range doesnt stand takes the middle of the ring and picks Tyson of with Straights and Tyson cant get near him

5-8 Tyson starts to get going a bit but is still getting caught and is still struggling to get inside Lewis

9-12 Tyson starts to get frustrated and looks for the hayemaker to finish it off it doesnt come and Lewis boxes his way to a safety 1st UD victory imo

[Collins2000]

I think they were both about the same. Big strengths but big weaknesses too.

I think the Tyson who beat vs Trevor Berbick vs the Lennox Lewis who beat Razor Ruddick would have been a good fight.

[BoxBuzz]

I suppose this question is legit, but it's compromised since they met and Lewis won the fight. To some of us that says it all.

But here is the big "Tyson Asterisk" that always gets bantered about.

To some folks, Tyson beats just about anyone when he's "at his prime". Problem for me is, his prime appears to be about 2 nanoseconds long. And that's not enough time for some of these fights to play out. So it becomes a mute point.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Moot point, Buzz

Anyway, on career-accomplishments, I absolutely rank Lewis above Tyson. However, in a peak-for-peak contest, I imagine Tyson as, as much as any factor, simply too damn quick for Lewis. It ain't as though Lewis can take a beating if he has to. His chin is poor & his recuperative abilities underwhelming. Tyson would knock him out.

Lewis on achievements, Tyson, head-to-head.

[Collins2000]

I suppose this question is legit, but it's compromised since they met and Lewis won the fight. To some of us that says it all.

Tyson was pretty washed up by then though.

It might not matter to you. But it does to me.

Or are you saying the Tyson of the Berbick fight would have fared no better?

[BoxBuzz]

Moot point, Buzz

Anyway, on career-accomplishments, I absolutely rank Lewis above Tyson. However, in a peak-for-peak contest, I imagine Tyson as, as much as any factor, simply too damn quick for Lewis. It ain't as though Lewis can take a beating if he has to. His chin is poor & his recuperative abilities underwhelming. Tyson would knock him out.

Lewis on achievements, Tyson, head-to-head.

Hmm I always thought it was short for "a mutant is trying to make a point". Anyway I always get caught on that....mute meaning silent...I know you're right, wonder what the word "moot" means?....I'll have to look it up in hopes that I can overcome this chronic error of mine.

[BoxBuzz]

I suppose this question is legit, but it's compromised since they met and Lewis won the fight. To some of us that says it all.

Tyson was pretty washed up by then though.

It might not matter to you. But it does to me.

Or are you saying the Tyson of the Berbick fight would have fared no better?

No, Collins certainly I agree with your point. (Prepare for a shock and don't keel over as I'm about to treat you with respect) Tyson at his best has a puncher's chance vs Lewis....and is decidedly better than the Tyson that showed up that day. However I feel I do have a point regarding those who claim Tyson to clearly be one of the "best of the best" at his prime. Can we pinpoint that time frame? I really think it's a short window and what great fighter tested him at that point in time? It's always been a bit of mystery to me. He did a lot of damage but it was a bit like the tornado that hit a series of dilapidated old shacks. I wonder if that same storm would have devastated a series of state of the art constructions?

And then his fragile psyche must always be factored in when this discussion is raised.

[Robinson]

Who could have Mike Tyson have faced to satisfy his nay-Sayers?

Gerry Cooney – Would have beating or fighting the post Holmes, Cooney made any difference to how people thought about Tyson. Should the pair met before Tyson won the title or during his reign, it would most likely have ended in a mid fight TKO win for Tyson.

Greg Page- The talented though inconsistent Page made a name for himself as a sparring partner for Tyson leading up to the Douglas fight, when he dropped Tyson with a short right hand. If Tyson met Page around 1986-88, Page’s cleverness and legs would have seen him lose a boring run and clinch fight where his jab and uppercuts would done little to stave of most of Tyson’s assaults and flurries. A decision win for Tyson reminiscent of Tyson Vs Tillis or Smith.

Tim Witherspoon- The best of the crop of Alphabet champions from the late 1970s and mid 1980s, Terrible Tim had a ferocious right hand and a style that could confuse Tyson throughout. Though the in-shape Tyson would have won a fun filled fight via a stoppage around round 6.

Gerrie Coetzer- The South African’s best was during the early 1980s, though he still had a name and was a former ‘title’ holder, that would have legitimised Tyson’s legacy as often does many past their primes scalps have done in the past. He was also white, which would have seen an angle for some promoters. Tyson wins this fight by KO around round 3.

Mike Weaver- The body beautiful former WBA champion was beyond his supreme days, however he would have provided a nostalgic aura to the fight. Tyson would have blown away Weaver early in the night.

John Tate- Big Tate made a come back around the time of the Tyson era that would have sold some tickets for those that remembered Tate’s brief reign that blessed the boxing scene during the early 80s. Tate would have fallen prey to Tyson’s power and speed around the fifth round.

George Foreman- Big George started his come back when Tyson was hot property and the former champion though working his way up the ranks slowly by gorging himself on journeymen still had a newly found charm and great name sake that would have made the fight an exciting prospect. Tyson would have been too much for Foreman at this time, which had yet to reach his comeback prime and who would have been to big and slow a target, Tyson by decision.

Leon Spinks- By this time Neon Leon was exposed as the gap tooth potential that he was, apart from his Ali fights, Leon had his gold medal to be proud of. Still the former linear champion Spinks was around the place and would have made some people satisfied to see him succumb to his brother’s fate by falling inside a round.

Dwight Qawi- The cruiserweight legend started to make his way about the place in the heavyweight division, not a worthy challenger to any top ten heavyweights at this time, he however is a former title holder and had a name that would have looked good on his record.

I do not need to mention those who Tyson did face, but he did fight linear champions at or near there best, as well as former and current Alphabet champions, however history may view Tyson’s reign or that period in time, let it not be remembered for its controversies, let it be remembered for a colourful chunk of our sports history that saw some of the most talented men ever to lace up gloves show us a glimpse of what they possessed before addiction, affliction and fame drained and robbed them of histories place of pride.

Perhaps should Tyson have drawn a colour line, and refused to have faced ‘coloured’ fighters, or then again maybe if he had of pursued cinema and not defended his title for three years many would consider him a superb legend. Then again he could have campaigned on a tour that saw him face non ranked fighters to challenge him for his title, giving contenders, journeymen, club fighters and former names a chance at glory. Or perhaps he could have fought light-heavyweight greats and retired with a perfect record just before he flew over the Japan. Maybe what Tyson needed was to find a ‘phantom’ punch that would have dropped a normally ironed jawed legend to help satisfy his legacy. Either way no matter who the man is of destiny, there shall always be those who stand from the side lines ready to condemn and find fault. The fact however remains, that they shall always have a place reseserved in our curiosities that will provide hours of thought, debate and pleasure.

Contrary to this rant, I am not a Mike Tyson apologist, more so I am a fan of the era of Heavyweight history, a fan of the men who failed to be great. I just wished to address some thoughts that I had on Mike Tyson and wished to address some of his critics.

[Robinson]

Lewis had some damned fine wins...

Weaver (a shell of what he was), Biggs (just a name at this point),

Ruddock (one of his defining wins), Bruno(for British pride though not
the best version of Bruno),
Phil Jackson ( was a tough near contender),
Morrison (shut down the former contender),
Mercer( nearly upset bythe up and down Mercer),
McCall ( avenged his only loss against a mentally frail man),
Akinwande (a slow dance win against a capableBriton),
Golotoa (destruction over the inconsistent though dangerous Pole),
Briggs (one of his better wins over a capable TV contender),
Holyfield (two defining and unifying fights over the past it Holy),
Grant ( destroys HBOs poster boy), Botha (stops the Buffalo in
impressive fashion),
Tua (out boxes the dangerous and marketable Tuaman),
Rahman (gets revenge against his former conqueror in impressive
fashion),
Tyson (a fight made 5 or so years to late, he dominates a past
it Iron Mike).
Klitschko ( a come behind win against a tough future champion)

Not a bad record.....Impressive indeed.


Tyson./..


Fergusson (Tyson stops the then up and coming contender),
Green and Tillis (Tyson goes the distance but does what he needs
to do against two contenders with some skills)
Frazier (destroys Smoking Joe jr)
Berbick (decimates the capable and awkward Berbick),
Smith (decisions the reluctant big man who was around his best),
Thomas ( stops the still effective Pinkman),
Tucker (beats the impressive and skilled Tucker),
Biggs ( beats the gold medalist, who was at his best),
Holmes (beats a rusty, aged, layed off former great),
Tubbs (stops the flabby though very skilled fatman),
Spinks (stops impressively the man that every considered the man),
Bruno (beats the impressive big Briton twice),
Williams (stops instantly the returning Truth),
Tillman (annhilates his former Olympic conqueror),
Stewart (decimates the hard hitting, though padded record Alex),
Ruddock (stops the next big thing, in two great fights),
Seldon (stops in one the Atlantic express),
thereafter it does not matter as such...


Both men could have other great match ups, but it
is hard to deny either serious credit.

[BoxBuzz]

Nice synopsis. Mike coudn't help it if the field was limited....

[Robinson]

Yeah but I keep reading Tyson was mentally weak, a poor
fighter and never got up from the canvas...

What a chump the guy is, I guess never getting up from
the canvas is as almost as good as getting up from the
couch.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Nice synopsis. Mike coudn't help it if the field was limited....

It does appear he ducked Foreman, which I consider pretty shameful. However, he did as much as he could from '85-90. After prison, the excuses stop --- he intentionally targeted garbage for money, so screw him & his limited legacy.

My take is essentially this --- as a fighter, he was as dangerous & physically as complete a Heavyweight champion as I've ever seen --- I think, frankly, if you deny it, you're delusional. However, his career accomplishments, while as good as they could've been in the timeframe I outlined, are still only good, not great. After the title slipped, he stopped caring. It is inexcusable for a fighter of his abilities --- & notoriety --- to lose a championship prior to his 24th birthday, & not get a shot at the linear, legitimate crown again until age, what thirty-five? Thirty-six? That is chump material.

Looking at what he was capable of as a fighter, & taking in his career as a whole (85-05), I consider Tyson the stand-out under-achiever in Heavyweight championship history.

[Robinson]

Oh and George Foreman had a great title reign in both his careers.
Joe Frazier as well.?

No one is arguing that Tyson post prison was lost as a fighter,
that is a given. He was still a draw card no matter who he fought,
did Foreman pick and chose opponents in career 2 ?

Tyson ducking Foreman...that is based on what ? what some journo's
assumed or over heard in conversation. If the money is there, a fighter
will fight.

I would fight a Klitschko under boxing rules for some $. It doesnt mean
I am braver than Tyson....?
Tyson faced more threatening and less marketable men than Foreman in
his come back.

Basically anyone he faced 1988-91 was more of a threat than foreman
at that time. It was not until 1990ish that Foreman began to establish
himself as a good version of himself. And the Foreman post 1994 was
fading fast. So it leaves a relatively small window for Tyson to work in
to face the returning Foreman.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I don't remember who specifically said it (I'm sure someone will), but there was a conversation published in which Tyson was alleged to have stated he would never fight an animal like Foreman. When someone questioned it here, another member rightly pointed out that, given how specific the conversation's info & quotes were, they'd be sued if they ever stated such things took place when they didn't.

Yes, the above looks very vague & I'll cop heat for it, but I'm hoping someone remembers the thread I'm talking about & perhaps drags it to the top. D'Amato scared the daylights out of Tyson, it seems, telling him what he did of Foreman.

In any case, all I'm saying, Rob, is this --- Tyson's achievements don't match up with his accomplishments. The former should've yielded greater results in the latter. Dispute it if you wish, that's simply my contention, & that the gulf between the two is as wide as with any HW champion before or since.

[Collins2000]

In any case, all I'm saying, Rob, is this --- Tyson's achievements don't match up with his accomplishments. The former should've yielded greater results in the latter. Dispute it if you wish, that's simply my contention, & that the gulf between the two is as wide as with any HW champion before or since.

Irene, that statement makes no sense.

Did you mean something like "achievements don't match up with potential"?

And you still claim you don't post when you are loaded?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'll be sure to return the favour when you make a mistake in your writing.

Must be having fun, Collins

[Collins2000]

I'll be sure to return the favour when you make a mistake in your writing.

Must be having fun, Collins

Keep looking, Irene.

I think before I post; that's what makes us so different.

[I Feel Fine]

I think Lewis clearly has to be ranked ahead of Tyson. Lewis in my view is clearly top ten all time as a Heavyweight, while Tyson is lucky if he makes the top ten at all. As to who wins between Mike at his best and Lennox at his I would favor Lewis, though if Tyson did win I suppose I would not be too surprised.