dempseyfire wrote:Bowe is probably the most over-rated heavyweight of the past 25 years . . . .
Then what does that make Holyfield, who he beat 2 out of 3? Holyfield's heavyweight record is 25-10-2 and as far as I am concerned there is no way on this planet he beat Oquendo or had a draw against Lewis..which makes him 24-12-1. Sorry, but I don't care who you beat in those 24 or 25 wins, great ones don't have a record like that. He was a great cruiserweight and a tough as nails heavyweight, but overrated.
When Eddie Futch calls Bowe the most talented heavyweight he ever trained then I tend to go with his opinion. Considering he trained Frazier, Norton, Holmes, and many others.
To be overrated people have to put you on some sort of greatest of all time list or talk about him as a great. I have never heard anyone say Bowe was great. People all say he was incredibly talented and wasted much of that talent by being lazy. That is a fair assessment and therefor he isn't "overrated".
Holyfield is overrated. People do talk about him like an all-time 10 or 15 heavyweight. He wouldn't beat anyone on that list with the possible exception of Tyson in his prime, but even then I don't think that was a given.
Not over-rated? People are picking Bowe over Liston and Frazier in this thread, and I often hear his name mentioned as a top 15 HW. That to me is very over-rated. I agree Holyfield is over-rated by some but he's a legit top 15er in objective eyes. Bowe is MAYBE top 25 being generous.
I agree with you, but I am just saying that if you ask everyone on boxrec to name their top 15 heavys of all-time I would guess 98% wouldn't even think of Bowe. Top 25 is fair, even if it is debatable. So in order for him to be over-rated someone has to rate him too high and I don't hear that very often.
Also the fact that he could match up well with some of the smaller guys mentioned in this thread doesn't make him over rated. You don't think he would give Marcianno,Tyson, Frazier, and Patterson good fights in his prime? I disagree.
And if you are allowed to count Bowe's fights with Golota and his 3rd fight with Holyfield then I can count Holyfield's fights after Ruiz. Bowe was nearly brain dead in those fights. He could hardly talk.
jrc26 wrote:
Then what does that make Holyfield, who he beat 2 out of 3? Holyfield's heavyweight record is 25-10-2 and as far as I am concerned there is no way on this planet he beat Oquendo or had a draw against Lewis..which makes him 24-12-1. Sorry, but I don't care who you beat in those 24 or 25 wins, great ones don't have a record like that. He was a great cruiserweight and a tough as nails heavyweight, but overrated.
When Eddie Futch calls Bowe the most talented heavyweight he ever trained then I tend to go with his opinion. Considering he trained Frazier, Norton, Holmes, and many others.
To be overrated people have to put you on some sort of greatest of all time list or talk about him as a great. I have never heard anyone say Bowe was great. People all say he was incredibly talented and wasted much of that talent by being lazy. That is a fair assessment and therefor he isn't "overrated".
Holyfield is overrated. People do talk about him like an all-time 10 or 15 heavyweight. He wouldn't beat anyone on that list with the possible exception of Tyson in his prime, but even then I don't think that was a given.
Not over-rated? People are picking Bowe over Liston and Frazier in this thread, and I often hear his name mentioned as a top 15 HW. That to me is very over-rated. I agree Holyfield is over-rated by some but he's a legit top 15er in objective eyes. Bowe is MAYBE top 25 being generous.
I agree with you, but I am just saying that if you ask everyone on boxrec to name their top 15 heavys of all-time I would guess 98% wouldn't even think of Bowe. Top 25 is fair, even if it is debatable. So in order for him to be over-rated someone has to rate him too high and I don't hear that very often.
Also the fact that he could match up well with some of the smaller guys mentioned in this thread doesn't make him over rated. You don't think he would give Marcianno,Tyson, Frazier, and Patterson good fights in his prime? I disagree.
And if you are allowed to count Bowe's fights with Golota and his 3rd fight with Holyfield then I can count Holyfield's fights after Ruiz. Bowe was nearly brain dead in those fights. He could hardly talk.
Bowe was already gone by the Holyfield rubber match? His fight with Gonzales right after was considered a career performance at the time . . .
Says a lot about his porous defense that by his late 20s he was already slurring his words like a 40 year old veteran.
The problem with rating Bowe is you have to wonder how much of his career he was in tip top fighting shape for, Holyfield I obviously, maybe Gonzales and Ferguson. I always wonder how much of his decline in form was due to wear and tear and how much to the fact that he wasn't training the way he used to.
It makes it hard to judge him against some of the others mentioned in this thread. Do you take the guy from Holyfield I who looked like he should fear nobody but we only saw flashes of after that? Or do you factor in the more familiar lethargic guy who banked on power?
