BoxRec

Dave1armedTua wrote:Apparently, James Toney thinks he would kick Marciano's ass; along with Ali, Lewis, and Dempsey. He sure has been busy with the smack talk lately.

Was he going to take them on all on the same time, because i am sure that is the only chance they will have to beat him

punchpringle wrote:nasty says:

What part of 49(43)-0-0 do these IDIOTS not understand!

there are a few parts this idiot doesn't understand; 49(43)-0-0? why is the 43 ko's in the middle of the win-loss-draw stat? wouldn't 49-0-0 (43) be better? also why do you end you inquisitive sentence with an exclamation mark instead of a question mark?

Ah yes, those were the days! Ahhhhhhhh 8)

pringle wrote: Ah yes, those were the days! Ahhhhhhhh 8)

--- Apparently those days keep on rolling on. Latest Toney highlight was rolling out of the ring. Definitely faster on the roll than afoot.

I'm thinking MMA might be his future as he could flatten anyone on the roll like that.

nasty wrote:

Well,I read an article a few minutes ago dealing with the debate of

weather or not Marciano should be ranked as a great Heavyweight

What part of 49(43)-0-0 do these IDIOTS not understand!

Marciano was the greatest ever Heavyweight, bar none!

He beat everyone put infront of him and dodged no challengers!

Infact i hope this debate ends here's because there's nothing to DEBATE!

OK pal let's not get too excited. Yeah he was good, easily should be in the top 10 list, but first? i doubt it.

Marciano wuld probably KO Toney at HW.
Toney is still pretty good at HW, but he has not carried on his form from MW.

theres certainly some feeling in a few of these posts.

I kind of agree with most, Toney shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.

Marciano at 190 would easily win. I dont know about top 10, but i do know top 5 of alltime.

Marciano fought in a time when there was 1 Title and you couldn't dodge the best.

A flawless career, and still 50+ years later 49-0 is still the record.

bigstinkybug wrote:*What's funny is everyone keeps throwing this word"heavyweight"around...Marciano was a light heavyWeight or cruiser-weight,AT BEST..James Toney vs Marciano,at 185...is a pretty close match...Marciano wins a split decision.
*Truth is,Marciano would be just another decent small heavyweight in our era...guys like Sam Peter,Tua,Ibiabuchi,Tyson would send the small Marciano into a coma..same with Klitsko's,Lennox,Bow,...Marciano was too small for todays heavies.
*In a Heaviweight era,Marciano did the best..but he's by far the best ever...maybe top 20..maybe.

Obviously one of the key issues with Marciano is his weight, and the weights of the HW's today.

Not to mention Marciano would struggle somtimes against opponenets in his day, who, well are not considered very good.

Against guys like: Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Frazier Holyfield, Liston etc. etc. The weight different would be evident, and Marciano's aggressive technique would nearly always get him outpointed by the bigger taller boxers, or TKO'd by the bigger bruiser like Tyson, Liston or Frazier.

However, weight difference or no weight difference, James Toney would struggle against Marciano at HW. James Toney was a Superb MW, but has done little to nothing at HW. Marciano may be smaller, but he would probably overwhelm Toney sooner or later.

Marciano is one of those few boxers who are both "Over-Rated" and "Under-Rated". Some make a hige deal out of his undefeated record, but some make a huge deal out of his signifigantly smaller size compared to other HW's.

Marciano should make the Top 10 HW's List, and comfortbally the Top 15.
However, Top ? Very unlikley

punchpringle wrote:nasty says:

What part of 49(43)-0-0 do these IDIOTS not understand!

there are a few parts this idiot doesn't understand; 49(43)-0-0? why is the 43 ko's in the middle of the win-loss-draw stat? wouldn't 49-0-0 (43) be better? also why do you end you inquisitive sentence with an exclamation mark instead of a question mark?

wow hillarious

rocky could beat toney with his penis

Rusty Phlanges wrote:rocky could beat toney with his penis

to quote you:

Rusty Phlanges wrote:wow hillarious

I think Marciano's conditioning was fantastic and as tough as he and Toney are, that would be Rock's biggest advantage. Damn that would be a good fight.

prime toney would pick rock apart. the toney that fought last weekend would get massacred.

bjermaine wrote:prime toney would pick rock apart. the toney that fought last weekend would get massacred.

--- Ain't seen the prime Toney yet.

Wait until retirement and give him 6 months in a panhandle feedlot and then, and only THEN will we have prime Toney.

Toney picked apart by Griffin twice, Tiberi, Thadzi, and lucky to have a penalty and last second KD of Jirov in that bout. Rocky has nothing to worry about since Toney has a dismal heavy record to pick apart.

Rocky comes out in the first round, pulls out a banana cream pie and plants in the typical Toney face first mug, takes the penalty, and Toney done in. Easy night at the office for Rock.

In Marciano's entire career he only fought 6 men that came
in over the modern CW limit. Cockell (a blown up LHW) and
Joe Louis (easily beyond his best years) were the only two
top guys.

Toney has faced alot more men above the 200lb CW limit
so he really has better " HW " credentials if you want to nit
pick.

Say this fight is fought with Marciano around 185lbs and
Toney around 200lbs I see it going the distance with Toney
looking sharp early. It is in the later rounds that Marciano
finds Toney's body and works well. A close, grueling and
fan friendly fight. Marciano gets the decision. A rematch
would be on the cards and Toney may have a good shot
at closing the gap the second time around.

For me I think it is Marciano's relentless work rate that
gets him through in this one, his ever ready engine and
heart that lets him maintain a good pace late int he fight.

Toney is far more technical, has good counter and defence
skills, slightly better speed. Toney has been hit by much
harder punches than what Marciano has thrown. Sure the
Rock can close guys eyes, but one would be deluded to think
that a 185lb Marciano hit harder than the 230-250lbers that
have slammed their fists into Toney in recent years.

Though sharp, it is his non stop punches thrown to ever exposed areas
of Toney that are certain to sap away at his late reserve.

In regards to the guys Toney has faced compared to smaller HW of the
past....A big athletic guy always has nasty power. You will believe this
when you have one throwing punches into your body and face.

Robinson wrote:In Marciano's entire career he only fought 6 men that came
in over the modern CW limit. Cockell (a blown up LHW) and
Joe Louis (easily beyond his best years) were the only two
top guys.

Toney has faced alot more men above the 200lb CW limit
so he really has better " HW " credentials if you want to nit
pick.

Say this fight is fought with Marciano around 185lbs and
Toney around 200lbs I see it going the distance with Toney
looking sharp early. It is in the later rounds that Marciano
finds Toney's body and works well. A close, grueling and
fan friendly fight. Marciano gets the decision. A rematch
would be on the cards and Toney may have a good shot
at closing the gap the second time around.

For me I think it is Marciano's relentless work rate that
gets him through in this one, his ever ready engine and
heart that lets him maintain a good pace late int he fight.

Toney is far more technical, has good counter and defence
skills, slightly better speed. Toney has been hit by much
harder punches than what Marciano has thrown. Sure the
Rock can close guys eyes, but one would be deluded to think
that a 185lb Marciano hit harder than the 230-250lbers that
have slammed their fists into Toney in recent years.

Though sharp, non stop punches thrown to ever exposed area
of Toney certain sap away at his late reserve.
A big athletic guy always has nasty power. You will believe this
when you have one throwing punches into your body and face.

hmm, very intresting point there...

Rocky Marciano the winner by K.O. in the first three rounds

Dave1armedTua wrote:Apparently, James Toney thinks he would kick Marciano's ass; along with Ali, Lewis, and Dempsey. He sure has been busy with the smack talk lately.

James Toney hasnt kicked anyones ass for many many years.

It wouldnt be hard to kick his ass however. In fact it would be impossible to miss it.

Toney was a great fighter but the shape in which he enters the ring these days is a disgrace to boxing.

For the record a peak Marciano would have beat the shit out of the potbellied obese Heavyweight version of Toney. Its not a fair or even match.

Very stupid and out of arguments comments by some forum members who just hate Rocky Marciano.

Brian Nielsen second the greatest heavyweight because was 49-0/33/ before his lost from Dicky Ryan!!!
He is the greatest danish boxer, like Rocky Marciano is the greatest boxer for whole world ever.
Nielsen is not bum, but great journeyman. Nielsen never been even European champion. He was some kind of IBO champ, but today every good boxer is "title holder".

Larry Holmes is on another league, but also never been universal champion like Marciano. He was WBC world champion, but never undisputed.
When he try this he was three consecutive times beaten and when won his 49th fight, Holmes was already 48-3 former WBC champ.

Dariusz Michalchewski is not heavyweight, not world champion, not 49-0 and not undefeated. He is former long time WBO belt holder.

All Rocky Marciano fights are in heavyweight. He fought 11 times 200 and 200+ fighters.

His record is not just three fake marks as some haters try to show his iconic career.
Rocky Marciano is the only undefeated, undisputed and unlimited boxing champion ever.

49-0/43/

Here were the records of the Rocky opponents as well as Rocky himself

Rocky Balboa 57-23-1 (54)
Apollo Creed 47-1 (46)
Clubber Lang 70-1 (70)
Ivan Drago 54-1 (54)
Tommy Gunn 29-0 ( lost to Rocky in the street )
Mason Dixon 34-0 (30)

Wasn't Drago an amateur who hadn't yet fought pro?

Marciano is the one and only champion. At the time...

is that the fault of fighters today that the enviornment they
navigate has fragmented titles and ABC gangs to deal with ?

If Marciano had an ABC belt when he retired yet...say he
had another foe who had an ABC belt on the horizon
would that make one view the Rock any less ?

Nearly every man Rocky faced would be modern LHW or CW.
He never faced anyone with the size, mass and athletic skill
at those weights that say..Toney faced. So it is hard to determine
just how a Marciano would deal with a full force flush shot from a
fit, skilled 245lber.

Robinson wrote:Nearly every man Rocky faced would be modern LHW or CW.
He never faced anyone with the size, mass and athletic skill
at those weights that say..Toney faced. So it is hard to determine
just how a Marciano would deal with a full force flush shot from a
fit, skilled 245lber.

--- Only thing close to fit, skilled and 245lber that Toney ever faced was Rahman in the first fight, and Rahman fare thee well jabbed his mug & dug his kidneys into jelly without fancy moves or having to go to the well.

Toney has a miserable heavy record, and not much of a cruiser or lightheavy record, 27-5-1, 2 suspensions for steroid use since the Jones fight. Not the kind of record future fans to be ooooohhhing and aaahhhhhing over.

49-0, 43 KO, The Gold Standard, what it was, is, and always shall be.

Im not making excuses fopr Toney. I didnt realise I was in my
posts. What I was saying is that alot of the HW's that Marciano
defeated in his day were not as solidly built as the men that Toney
has faced.

Sam Peter for example is a hard hitting, big man that can deliver a
meaty shot.

As talented as they were LHW greats like Moore, Charles, Walcott
just do not have the mass behind their shots that a genuine big
man does.

Armchair experts will disagree...good for them.

Gotta be in shape in the fight business. That, as much as anything, is the difference here.

Robinson wrote:Marciano is the one and only champion. At the time...

is that the fault of fighters today that the enviornment they
navigate has fragmented titles and ABC gangs to deal with ?

If Marciano had an ABC belt when he retired yet...say he
had another foe who had an ABC belt on the horizon
would that make one view the Rock any less ?

Nearly every man Rocky faced would be modern LHW or CW.
He never faced anyone with the size, mass and athletic skill
at those weights that say..Toney faced. So it is hard to determine
just how a Marciano would deal with a full force flush shot from a
fit, skilled 245lber.

The mass part I agree with . . athletic or boxing skill?? .. . you are lost there.

Sam Peter and Hasim Rahman wouldn't have been top 15 fighters in Marciano's era let alone 'champions' . . .

Average-sized (6ft and 6'2) guys who ate way too much. Lead-footed tubbies fighting an array of skilled, and hard cracking fighters who weighed in top shape 185-215. Not any better or harder hitting than your Bob Bakers, Clarence Henrys, Joe Walcotts etc.

Honestly Toney would've had his hands full with the 190 lb Lee Savold who like Toney was a slick, durable counterpuncher.

As for 'armchair' expertise, I've been around boxing gyms most of my life, and if you believe that some overmassed guy weighing 240 automatically hits harder than a 180 lb guy with God-given punching power, you are sorely mistaken.

Punching power comes from torque, a major component which is speed which leads to explosivness.

Peter and Rahman are two strong men but there's a reason the likes of Dempsey, Louis, and Tyson made guys loopy with one shot and the likes of Peter couldn't deck anyone once he started fighting top 20 fighters unless it was via a rabbit punch to the back of the head (or a jab vs an off balanced obese Toney)

Had Peter been coming in at a svelte 215 he would've been called the new Tyson, b/c his lean frame would've allowed him to explod up from the toes and twist his body more into his shots at a much faster rate.