Rocky Marciano vs. James Toney at Heavyweight?

Puncher · Post by **Puncher** » 29 Sep 2003, 13:08

Well,I read an article a few minutes ago dealing with the debate of

weather or not Marciano should be ranked as a great Heavyweight,and of

course there are alot of articles about how well Toney dose against

heavyweights,etc.Who wins this one in Marciano's prime.I'll take Marciano

in this one.Dose anyone disagree?

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 29 Sep 2003, 13:59

Why don't you put Toney against Lewis, or Reggie Strickland against Tyson while your making up horrible matches

nasty · Post by **nasty** » 29 Sep 2003, 14:03

Well,I read an article a few minutes ago dealing with the debate of

weather or not Marciano should be ranked as a great Heavyweight

What part of 49(43)-0-0 do these IDIOTS not understand!

Marciano was the greatest ever Heavyweight, bar none!

He beat everyone put infront of him and dodged no challengers!

Infact i hope this debate ends here's because there's nothing to DEBATE!

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 29 Sep 2003, 14:27

I suppose Brian Neilson was the second greatest heavyweight ever, until he lost to Dick Ryan?

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 30 Sep 2003, 05:00

Marciano was an all time great. Toney at heavyweight is a fat slob and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.

seattledirk · Post by **seattledirk** » 30 Sep 2003, 10:00

Tantum wrote:I suppose Brian Neilson was the second greatest heavyweight ever, until he lost to Dick Ryan?

Let's not forget Dariusz Michalczewski, light-heavyweight WBO-champion.
48-0-0, 2 more bum fights left to break Marciano's record (if you believe the German media).
He is way better than Nielsen, but far away from being an all-time great.
To build an argumentation on fight records is ridiculous.

Marciano vs. Toney? That must have been the lamest 'what if' scenario ever.
Who is interested in that?

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 30 Sep 2003, 10:10

What about Prince Charles Williams v. Antonio Tarver?

Proboxer · Post by **Proboxer** » 30 Sep 2003, 12:15

Marciano destroys Toney. Toney comes in and does well through 5 or 6 rounds, but Rocky is relentless and pressures Toney to much and wears him down to nothing. Rock gets the KO by round 8. Toney is comparible to Walcott, but not as big and strong.

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 30 Sep 2003, 13:13

Samson Dutchboy Gym was 43-0 and would have given Rocky all he could handle. I understand Apollo Creed had a pretty good record as well and he beat Jaime (Rocky) Balboa.

Tyson KTFO 3 Times · Post by **Tyson KTFO 3 Times** » 30 Sep 2003, 13:39

Tomato-Can wrote:Samson Dutchboy Gym was 43-0 and would have given Rocky all he could handle. I understand Apollo Creed had a pretty good record as well and he beat Jaime (Rocky) Balboa.

You can talk about creed all you want to, we all know that Drago is the real champ

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 01 Oct 2003, 06:46

Don't forget Clubber Lang

Terrington · Post by **Terrington** » 01 Oct 2003, 10:22

.
...One-armed & Tantum ...Please DON'T SOUR THIS THREAD!
...Puncher's started a very good topic, here.
...A prime Rocky was maybe 5'10 1/2" and weighed 188-190#.
...If both men have to make the Cruiser limit, and Rocky is in his prime, I like Rocky inside the distance. Don't care if it's 10 rounds or 12.
...If BOTH guys are in their prime, flip a coin.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 01 Oct 2003, 12:03

Even though I believe Rocky's relentless pressure and superior conditioning would eventually get him a late-round KO win, make no mistake, this would be a frickin' war.

How well Toney does against Holyfield this weekend may tell us a lot about how he stands up to a real heavyweight punch. If Holy KOs him, there's no way he could've stood up to Rocky's punches over the distance. But if Toney winds up outboxing Holy, Marciano/Toney suddenly becomes a much-less-one-sided matchup. The Jirov fight should've taught us all to never underestimate a motivated Toney, especially when he's got a guy who stands in front of him and is willing to trade.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 01 Oct 2003, 12:10

Eric the Viking wrote:Even though I believe Rocky's relentless pressure and superior conditioning would eventually get him a late-round KO win, make no mistake, this would be a frickin' war.

How well Toney does against Holyfield this weekend may tell us a lot about how he stands up to a real heavyweight punch. If Holy KOs him, there's no way he could've stood up to Rocky's punches over the distance. But if Toney winds up outboxing Holy, Marciano/Toney suddenly becomes a much-less-one-sided matchup. The Jirov fight should've taught us all to never underestimate a motivated Toney, especially when he's got a guy who stands in front of him and is willing to trade.

You say this fight will tell us how Toney holds up against a "real" heavyweight punch, yet Marciano weighed less than 190.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 01 Oct 2003, 13:03

Tantum wrote:You say this fight will tell us how Toney holds up against a "real" heavyweight punch, yet Marciano weighed less than 190.

But he punched harder than most of today's jumbo-sized heavies, as did Joe Louis, who also weighed less than 200 in his prime. Where does it say you have to weigh 250 to have a heavyweight punch? Prime Joe Frazier weighed around 205, prime Tyson around 210. Not much more than prime Rocky. All these guys are legendary punchers nonetheless.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 01 Oct 2003, 13:27

No no, Everyone ASSUMES that Marciano and Louis punched harder than "jumbo" sized heavies.

Go back and watch their fights, they are neither as powerful, or skilled as people make them out to be.

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 01 Oct 2003, 13:48

Terrington wrote:.
...One-armed & Tantum ...Please DON'T SOUR THIS THREAD!

Oh shut up

This is a bigger joke than the guy who asked if a 53 year old version of Larry Holmes could beat his younger self in teh 80's.

Terrington · Post by **Terrington** » 01 Oct 2003, 18:02

.
...Hey, One-armed... It's just cybertalk. If you think you can make me shut up, go right ahead.
...Whatever happened to this?...

...I had the MOST INTELLIGENT RESPONSE that will prove you wrong, Terrington, but time ran out on me and the message was lost. All that work was for nothing.
...Rest assured YOU ARE WRONG! I'll type it over tomorrow afternoon and PROVE you're wrong!
...But tomorrow afternoon never came, did it?
...So what you really proved to me was NOTHING.
...****************************
...I'm not gonna be sarcastic, but I would like to have heard your rationale on why you thought I was wrong.

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 01 Oct 2003, 18:07

You never replied to th comment, so I didn't figure that you were intrested. I didn't feel like spending another 20 minutes re-copying everything out of my physics book if you weren't going to spend 4 minutes to read it.

If you actually are, I'll go back to that thread and post in it.

And this thread here is still a joke.

punchpringle · Post by **punchpringle** » 01 Oct 2003, 21:49

nasty says:

What part of 49(43)-0-0 do these IDIOTS not understand!

there are a few parts this idiot doesn't understand; 49(43)-0-0? why is the 43 ko's in the middle of the win-loss-draw stat? wouldn't 49-0-0 (43) be better? also why do you end you inquisitive sentence with an exclamation mark instead of a question mark?

Terrington · Post by **Terrington** » 02 Oct 2003, 02:39

.
...Dave1-armed... Nope, don't waste your time.
...It's not gonna be in a PHYSICS book, anyway.
...I see it as a MATHEMATICAL issue ...for example:
...Some guy said DaVarryl's win over Corey "T-Rex" Sanders was comparable to SuperMiddle Joe Calzaghe fighting Jr. Welter Kostya Tszyu.
...The ratio would look like this:

212 ....... 113.79
____ = ____
313 ....... 168

... Now, if that was valid, it would be comparable to Calzaghe fighting a Superfly Champ. Tszyu weighs 140, so this formula suggests he could fight a guy as light as 113.79# and it would be comparable.
...I don't agree, but it would be up to you to give a formula (and document the validity of it) that would ACCURATELY determine the decline in strength of the boxer as the bodyweight increased. You could ALSO give a formula for the decline in hand speed, because that would be a factor.
...***************************
...Here's what I really give a crap about: What it would take to get you & Tantum to quit souring other people's threads.
...I really believe you ENJOY sarcasm & put-downs. Otherwise, why do you keep on doing it? Try being the Good Guy. Hell, I won't say anything insulting. You got my word!

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 02 Oct 2003, 13:31

First off, the formula I found actually IS in a physics book because it can be proven by a scientific theory of motion. F = M x A

I was surprised to find, that if you plug in accurate information into it, you can acctually get a good idea of punching power at different weights.

What it would take to get you & Tantum to quit souring other people's threads.

Here is another question: Out of all the peeople who made fun of the poster, and wrote sarcastic comments about this thread, why did you choose to single out 2 people?

What part of 49(43)-0-0 do these IDIOTS not understand!

Marciano was an all time great. Toney at heavyweight is a fat slob and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.

Marciano vs. Toney? That must have been the lamest 'what if' scenario ever.
Who is interested in that?

What about Prince Charles Williams v. Antonio Tarver?

Samson Dutchboy Gym was 43-0 and would have given Rocky all he could handle. I understand Apollo Creed had a pretty good record as well and he beat Jaime (Rocky) Balboa.

Terrington · Post by **Terrington** » 02 Oct 2003, 14:16

...Well, Maybe all those people ARE "repeat offenders."
...Maybe not. The haven't been messing up MY threads.
...There are 3 basic moves you can make to screw up another guy's thread: (1) Change the subject, (2) Say his Topic Statement (if he made one) is wrong, yet don't explain why. (3) Insult their favorite boxer, yet don't explain why.
...So if you'll stop on these 3 things, I know I'll like you better. I can't speak for the rest of them! And I won't sour your threads.
...You knew you were doing SOMETHING wrong when the moderators changed the title of your Topic from 'Faggy Joe Mesi' to 'Crappy Joe Mesi.'
...I'm not going to post on this anymore. We're not getting anywhere.
...I got a feeling you're not gonna change and I'm not gonna change.
...This I DO know: What you send out comes back to you - you never know WHEN, but you know it will!

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 02 Oct 2003, 16:18

It's ok, it was obviously just a misunderstanding.

...Well, Maybe all those people ARE "repeat offenders."
...Maybe not. The haven't been messing up MY threads.

That was the only part that confused me. The guy who started this was named puncher, and he didn't seem to have a problem with what anyone was saying. Unless your using multiple usernames and this IS your thread, than I am sorry if you felt I was bashing all your topics.

But if that is the case, stop using multiple names :P
When people see a username with only 9 posts in several months, and they start a topic like "Marciano vs. Toney", it looks like troll bait like the good old ESB invasion days that sparked such wonderful topics as "Butterbean vs. Foreman"

As far as the 3 rules

1. I don't think I ever really changed a subject, as much as protested or implied hate for certain boxers in a thread discussing them.

2. I am guilty here, but this has only happened twice and we have straightened it out now.

3. If I have, I was unaware of it. Again, when I express anger toward a boxer, I usually give reasons.

If you took serious offense to anything I have said, then I apologize. As I explained, I didn't feel that I posted anything out of bounds from what most others post, and any insulting comments that might have been made were done so without knowledge.

And the Mesi topic was posted out of anger, 30 seconds after hearing his spiteful post-fight comments, so that was a little out of line. Grey did change the name to crappy though, instead of anything else, so he must have similar feelings

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 03 Oct 2003, 18:52

Apparently, James Toney thinks he would kick Marciano's ass; along with Ali, Lewis, and Dempsey. He sure has been busy with the smack talk lately.