BoxRec

Felix Trinidad Sr. to Tito on the Winky fight. They appear to have no clue both father and son.
Cotto's corner on the Pac fight. His corner did not have a clue of what to tell him in between rounds.

aye, father/trainers, they've all had some shockers.

I hate trainers who make their fighters stand up between rounds. I swear some of them do it so they don't have to crouch.

bennie wrote:I hate trainers who make their fighters stand up between rounds. I swear some of them do it so they don't have to crouch.

Good shout, that is annoying, seems to be a largely Argentinian trait. They say it's a way of psyching the other guy out but in almost every instance eventually the guy starts sitting down later in the fight, what sort of message does that send out?

Counter-puncher wrote:my votes:

just about any of the 'work' Jack Mosley did for Shane during his losing efforts. utterly, utterly pathetic.

Enzo Calzaghe's insane incomprehensible gibberish early in the Hopkins fight

Going into the last round of the first fight with Forrest...

Jack Mosley: "Shane...ah...ummmmmm..."

simon fox wrote:teddy atlas when michael moorer boxed evander holyfield and he sat on the stool and asked moorer if he wanted atlas to box holyfield. some feel that this was a master of psychology; i think he was jealous of moorers' time in the limelight and craved the attention. moorer won the fight but that is the moment that stands out for me. atlas is a very good trainer but wants to be seen on a stage the same as the heavyweight champion.

You are stone-cold crazy if you think Atlas' actions were detrimental to Moorer that night, Stone-cold crazy.

Goodnight Irene; I didn't say that Atlas' actions were detrimental to Moorer in the fight. I question Atlas' motivation in acting in a way that put himself firmly centre stage in a heavyweight title bout. I have read Teddy Atlas' biography and the man actually thinks that he'd beat Moorer in a fight. Atlas would have much sooner been a top class fighter than a trainer. When one of his charges got to the highest stage he wanted more of the limelight than a trainer warrents. (Could you imagine Ray Arcel or any other top trainer acting like Atlas did? Has it ever happened before, even by the greatest trainer with a journeyman boxer?)

Counter-puncher wrote:aye, father/trainers, they've all had some shockers.

All? I think you are overgeneralizing. I know two father/trainers - Pat O'Grady and Frank Baltazar - and both did a good job in their sons' corners.

Pavlik's "cutman" was terrible in the Martinez fight. He used a towel to try and stop the cuts if I'm not mistaken, only made it worse.

Any corner Mickey Duff was in. This guy loved the camera and hammed it up. Quite what business this "promotor/manager/all round general schyster " had taking over trainers in a fighters corner was another question.

His advice to many of his fighters like Sibson,Mugabi and Honeyghan was pretty lousy at times.

simon fox wrote:Goodnight Irene; I didn't say that Atlas' actions were detrimental to Moorer in the fight. I question Atlas' motivation in acting in a way that put himself firmly centre stage in a heavyweight title bout. I have read Teddy Atlas' biography and the man actually thinks that he'd beat Moorer in a fight. Atlas would have much sooner been a top class fighter than a trainer. When one of his charges got to the highest stage he wanted more of the limelight than a trainer warrents. (Could you imagine Ray Arcel or any other top trainer acting like Atlas did? Has it ever happened before, even by the greatest trainer with a journeyman boxer?)

I read Kostya Tszyu's bio. He thinks he would've had a very good shot to beat Ray Robinson.

People have delusions. It happens. However, what Atlas did in Moorer's corner was not something, personally, I would ever consider anything close to pathetic. Maybe if Moorer had performed as consistently against Holyfield (& throughout his career, even) as Atlas did doing his job, the latter wouldn't have received so much credit.

How about Gil Clancy who was in De La Hoya's corner against Trindiad? He told De La Hoya to coast because he thought he so far ahead on points. De la Hoya let Trinidad have the last three rounds and it cost him the fight and the biggest win of his career.

Sure De la Hoya should have been farther ahead on the scorecards than he was and still should have got the decision. However, Clancy had been around long enough to know that you can't take anything for granted when it comes to judges.

Ambling Alp wrote:How about Gil Clancy who was in De La Hoya's corner against Trindiad? He told De La Hoya to coast because he thought he so far ahead on points. De la Hoya let Trinidad have the last three rounds and it cost him the fight and the biggest win of his career.

Sure De la Hoya should have been farther ahead on the scorecards than he was and still should have got the decision. However, Clancy had been around long enough to know that you can't take anything for granted when it comes to judges.

It's not a popular viewpoint, but I disagree on this one. De La Hoya had already received the nod --- by a surprising margin --- over both Whitaker & Quartey, in recent outings. Sure, it's not unfair to say De La Hoya won those fights, but no way did he take them by as wide a margin as was scored. Las Vegas was The Golden Boy's town. When you couple this history with the straight-up fact he embarrassed Trinidad for more than half the fight, I don't think Clancy's advice looks as bad as history now collectively remembers it.

raylawpc wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:aye, father/trainers, they've all had some shockers.

All? I think you are overgeneralizing. I know two father/trainers - Pat O'Grady and Frank Baltazar - and both did a good job in their sons' corners.

very true, I exaggerated badly there thanks.

You could argue Pat did everything he humanely could to make sure his son got all the breaks, including creating his own sanctioning body. He always came across like Brian Wilson's dad though - Controlling, manipulative and a bit crazy and essentially suffocating?

oh, and he matched Sean with Little Red.

well yeah, 200 fights in oklahoma isn't going to prepare you for little red

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:How about Gil Clancy who was in De La Hoya's corner against Trindiad? He told De La Hoya to coast because he thought he so far ahead on points. De la Hoya let Trinidad have the last three rounds and it cost him the fight and the biggest win of his career.

Sure De la Hoya should have been farther ahead on the scorecards than he was and still should have got the decision. However, Clancy had been around long enough to know that you can't take anything for granted when it comes to judges.

It's not a popular viewpoint, but I disagree on this one. De La Hoya had already received the nod --- by a surprising margin --- over both Whitaker & Quartey, in recent outings. Sure, it's not unfair to say De La Hoya won those fights, but no way did he take them by as wide a margin as was scored. Las Vegas was The Golden Boy's town. When you couple this history with the straight-up fact he embarrassed Trinidad for more than half the fight, I don't think Clancy's advice looks as bad as history now collectively remembers it.

No it's really stupid to tell your fighter that he has the fight won with 3 rounds to go. It's that simple. This is boxing. anything can happen when it goes to the judges regardless of who the fighters are or where the fight is.
btw-I don't think the Quartey fight was that far off. I had De La hoya winning by one point . One judge had him by 3, that is only round different. One judge gave the fight to Quartey-it was a split decision.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

simon fox wrote:Goodnight Irene; I didn't say that Atlas' actions were detrimental to Moorer in the fight. I question Atlas' motivation in acting in a way that put himself firmly centre stage in a heavyweight title bout. I have read Teddy Atlas' biography and the man actually thinks that he'd beat Moorer in a fight. Atlas would have much sooner been a top class fighter than a trainer. When one of his charges got to the highest stage he wanted more of the limelight than a trainer warrents. (Could you imagine Ray Arcel or any other top trainer acting like Atlas did? Has it ever happened before, even by the greatest trainer with a journeyman boxer?)

I read Kostya Tszyu's bio. He thinks he would've had a very good shot to beat Ray Robinson.

People have delusions. It happens. However, what Atlas did in Moorer's corner was not something, personally, I would ever consider anything close to pathetic. Maybe if Moorer had performed as consistently against Holyfield (& throughout his career, even) as Atlas did doing his job, the latter wouldn't have received so much credit.

I agree. While Atlas may have been over the top in that fight, I think it could seriously be argued that without his motivation between rounds Moorer would NOT have won that fight. Moorer was certainly not the most mentally stable fighter and I think after the first 3 rounds he had some serious doubt about winning. Atlas brought something out of him.

Counter-puncher wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:aye, father/trainers, they've all had some shockers.

All? I think you are overgeneralizing. I know two father/trainers - Pat O'Grady and Frank Baltazar - and both did a good job in their sons' corners.

very true, I exaggerated badly there thanks.

Exagerated for sure, BUT the problem is that some of the fathers who have been bad stand out way more than the good ones. Just like with anything I suppose.

How about Roy Jones Sr. in the third Tarver fight. He was absolutely HORRIBLE. Between rounds I was wondering what fight he was watching.

I had one corner in particular in mind when I started this thread and I was waiting to see if anyone brought it up.

If I was Chris Byrd's father/trainer, I would tell that damn wife of his to 'go sit down and shut the hell up'. She comes up the ring stairs in nearly every fight and screams over Mr. Byrd while he is giving instructions. She screams complete nonsense. In the 2nd Klitschko fight "He's jabbin' and grabbin' you Chris!" Yeah, in between the murderous right hands he almost killed your husband with. I cannot believe any trainer would let that go on, whether they are family or not.

Tito SR was very poor in his sons corner against Bernard Hopkins, he didnt offer much tactical advice and was telling him he was winning when it was clear to everyone (including JR) that he was nowhere near winning. I dont think Taylors corner were bad, Duva and Benson are 2 top quality corner men

alexpaterson wrote:Tito SR was very poor in his sons corner against Bernard Hopkins, he didnt offer much tactical advice and was telling him he was winning when it was clear to everyone (including JR) that he was nowhere near winning. I dont think Taylors corner were bad, Duva and Benson are 2 top quality corner men

I cannot speak to how good Lou Duva was in training camps, but to me his corner work is mediocre at best. He is such a drama queen in the corner. He spends half the time screaming at the ref and complaining. If I was in a big fight and I came back to my corner between rounds I wouldn't want to sit there and listen to him scream. I don't think that does a fighter any good at all.

As far as the Taylor fight in particular, I guess I have been convinced that they didn't do the worst thing before the 12th round. Still Duva has always rubbed me the wrong way. Although he seems like a good guy in interviews.

jrc26 wrote:

alexpaterson wrote:Tito SR was very poor in his sons corner against Bernard Hopkins, he didnt offer much tactical advice and was telling him he was winning when it was clear to everyone (including JR) that he was nowhere near winning. I dont think Taylors corner were bad, Duva and Benson are 2 top quality corner men

I cannot speak to how good Lou Duva was in training camps, but to me his corner work is mediocre at best. He is such a drama queen in the corner. He spends half the time screaming at the ref and complaining. If I was in a big fight and I came back to my corner between rounds I wouldn't want to sit there and listen to him scream. I don't think that does a fighter any good at all.

As far as the Taylor fight in particular, I guess I have been convinced that they didn't do the worst thing before the 12th round. Still Duva has always rubbed me the wrong way. Although he seems like a good guy in interviews.

I see what you mean but I always thought he was a good motivator with Benson giving the tactical advice, I thought they were a great corner team

alexpaterson wrote:

jrc26 wrote:

alexpaterson wrote:Tito SR was very poor in his sons corner against Bernard Hopkins, he didnt offer much tactical advice and was telling him he was winning when it was clear to everyone (including JR) that he was nowhere near winning. I dont think Taylors corner were bad, Duva and Benson are 2 top quality corner men

I cannot speak to how good Lou Duva was in training camps, but to me his corner work is mediocre at best. He is such a drama queen in the corner. He spends half the time screaming at the ref and complaining. If I was in a big fight and I came back to my corner between rounds I wouldn't want to sit there and listen to him scream. I don't think that does a fighter any good at all.

As far as the Taylor fight in particular, I guess I have been convinced that they didn't do the worst thing before the 12th round. Still Duva has always rubbed me the wrong way. Although he seems like a good guy in interviews.

I see what you mean but I always thought he was a good motivator with Benson giving the tactical advice, I thought they were a great corner team

How is Lou doing? Ever hear or see anything from him anymore? He is 88 now, and the last thing I see about him online is from around 2007.