BoxRec

fight shouldnt be on may 21st as cleverly is fighting for the world title that day

chisora vs fury is a main event by itself

Chisora v Fury.....did someone say Chisora would be "back in the world-title mix" with a win.

Erm.....(knock-knock)....he-thefkk-lo.

What are you talking about.

Firstly, Chisora was plucked from nowhere for a soft-voluntary defence.

He hasn't had that fight.

So he hasn't been "in the world-title mix" and how in the name of all that is boomerang shaped would beating Tyson "Hell hath no Fury like Tyson when asked to run for a bus" Fury be a route to get "there"?

Tyson is a talented kid who is at Area-English title level. Gutsy, big and good fun to watch.

Now if Chisora beat say Michael Sprott or Timo Hoffman or someone who has actually shared the ring with someone with a pulse I'd say he's ready to fight someone on the top 10. Possibly, with a good wind and a run-up.

DavidPayne wrote:Chisora v Fury.....did someone say Chisora would be "back in the world-title mix" with a win.

Erm.....(knock-knock)....he-thefkk-lo.

What are you talking about.

Firstly, Chisora was plucked from nowhere for a soft-voluntary defence.

He hasn't had that fight.

So he hasn't been "in the world-title mix" and how in the name of all that is boomerang shaped would beating Tyson "Hell hath no Fury like Tyson when asked to run for a bus" Fury be a route to get "there"?

Tyson is a talented kid who is at Area-English title level. Gutsy, big and good fun to watch.

Now if Chisora beat say Michael Sprott or Timo Hoffman or someone who has actually shared the ring with someone with a pulse I'd say he's ready to fight someone on the top 10. Possibly, with a good wind and a run-up.

If he had a world title fight lined-up then he was in the "world title mix"

Thus, if he now goes on and beats Fury he would surely be back at that level, being recognised as an opponent for a heavyweight world champion?

I don't make the rules, and I think Chisora is completely undeserving of a world title shot, but then who is these days in that division? The whole weight class is a joke...

Fury v Chisora would be a decent scrap between two half-decent domestic heavies, but neither will ever be good enough to be called a world champion, not if you go by their CVs, their bloated bellies, stamina and styles.

That said, I guarantee both would be as competitive as the majority of Wlad's victims in recent years...

True. Chisora would be more game than Rahman.

But he's never been near a guy with a jab like Wladimir. He could look like Danny Williams did against Vitali and Danny had beaten better men than Chisora at that stage.

I don't rate WK that highly but in terms of qualification Dereck shouldn't have it...if this fights has gone, it doesn't leave him AT that level.

If Man Utd refused to play Crawley in the CUP it doesn't leave Crawley in the Premier League.

Chisora goes back to British title level IMO. I feel for him but it should be more building fights and putting his stamp on British scene.

Fkk me. Boxing fans really do self-loath. Some sort of mental affliction, like the mad-monk from The Davinci Code, self-flagulation is the norm, "I hate PPV" - "I want PPV, you dirty little boy - 'THWACK'" "I hate PPV". "I want two raw novices, one with a beer belly as the chief support to a WBO title fight for 1/27th of the Light Heavyweight crown when everybody knows Hopkins, Pascal, Dawson, Johnson etc are all infinitely more legitimate, then I'll pay" - 'thwack'...(crying) "I hate PPV"// BOXING FANS LOVED BEING SCREWED.[/quote]


I can close my eyes and imagine a certain promoter, sat in a black leather chair stroking a white cat on his lap, saying "hmmm, these fans are hard to please... okay, fxxk it, I've done well out of 30 years in the business, and it is PPV afterall, so I'll add Kell Brook vs a hapless African. Nevermind the quality, feel the width"

...

DavidPayne wrote:True. Chisora would be more game than Rahman.

But he's never been near a guy with a jab like Wladimir. He could look like Danny Williams did against Vitali and Danny had beaten better men than Chisora at that stage.

I don't rate WK that highly but in terms of qualification Dereck shouldn't have it...if this fights has gone, it doesn't leave him AT that level.

If Man Utd refused to play Crawley in the CUP it doesn't leave Crawley in the Premier League.

Chisora goes back to British title level IMO. I feel for him but it should be more building fights and putting his stamp on British scene.

I agree he's not at that level, but that's the level he'd have found himself at had Wlad not got injured....

I don't think Wlad would have done to him what VK did to Williams but I agree it would have been pretty one-sided.

Chisora needs to do a number on a Fury or Sprott, or both, then look to Europe....too many boxers are being fast tracked without proving themselves at home or on the continent. Take Matthew Hatton for example.

Hatton was a European Champion.

However, his title shot was a new low. Reminds me of the time the WBO rated Howard Eastman at #1 for a week at 154 pounds because something was rumoured.

Unless my memory is off.

He wasn't European champion at that weight though was he, he is arguably the worst European champion out there and got a shot at Alvarez at the weight above.....complete joke.

Yes he was brave, but he's so limited......far more deserving challengers than him.

Thing is, when talking about Chisora, how many people who have not already fought for the heavyweight title are more deserving of a shot than him? Not many!

The fact he was anywhere near a shot after beating Sam Sexton tells you all you need to know about the heavyweight scene.

Captain Hook wrote:He wasn't European champion at that weight though was he, he is arguably the worst European champion out there and got a shot at Alvarez at the weight above.....complete joke.

Yes he was brave, but he's so limited......far more deserving challengers than him.

Thing is, when talking about Chisora, how many people who have not already fought for the heavyweight title are more deserving of a shot than him? Not many!

The fact he was anywhere near a shot after beating Sam Sexton tells you all you need to know about the heavyweight scene.

Chisora isn't European champion at the weight he would have fought at either, whats your point. And Alvarez fought at Welter. What the WBC added to the fight is irrelevant - Hatton had more credibility than Chisora, but we're sliding off-point.

The point is, Chisora is not, nor has yet been "at world-level".

If his golden ticket shot is gone, he is not entitled to consider himself "at world-level" IMO.

Two unbeaten, confident heavyweights fighting for the British title ... this has to happen, and it should be a bill topper in it's own right. This sort of fight shouldn't be playing second fiddle to something else.

I think Chisora's two wins over Sexton carry a bit more weight than Fury's over McDermott, so I'm pretty sure he'll start a betting favourite, but reckon Fury is one those guys who just fights harder the more dangerous the opposition gets. Facsinating fight

THEBUTCH wrote:Two unbeaten, confident heavyweights fighting for the British title ... this has to happen, and it should be a bill topper in it's own right. This sort of fight shouldn't be playing second fiddle to something else.

I think Chisora's two wins over Sexton carry a bit more weight than Fury's over McDermott, so I'm pretty sure he'll start a betting favourite, but reckon Fury is one those guys who just fights harder the more dangerous the opposition gets. Facsinating fight

Totally agree Butch, it should top a bill considering it is two unbeaten young British guys boxing for a very important belt. There also seems to be a bit of needle from both guys towards each other which adds fuell to the fire. Chisora wins for me

King Geedorah wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:He wasn't European champion at that weight though was he, he is arguably the worst European champion out there and got a shot at Alvarez at the weight above.....complete joke.

Yes he was brave, but he's so limited......far more deserving challengers than him.

Thing is, when talking about Chisora, how many people who have not already fought for the heavyweight title are more deserving of a shot than him? Not many!

The fact he was anywhere near a shot after beating Sam Sexton tells you all you need to know about the heavyweight scene.

Chisora isn't European champion at the weight he would have fought at either, whats your point. And Alvarez fought at Welter. What the WBC added to the fight is irrelevant - Hatton had more credibility than Chisora, but we're sliding off-point.

The point is, Chisora is not, nor has yet been "at world-level".

If his golden ticket shot is gone, he is not entitled to consider himself "at world-level" IMO.

I've consulted my Boxrec chart of levels. Chisora is currently at the level of 'Definitely British and no one rates the Commonwealth anyway but just below Euro depending on who holds the Euro and how I think he'd do against them but not quite at world top ten level and nowhere near world, world top five level so he's way outside the world, world, world, "elite" top three in the division even though only two of those three have earned their mark and the other one was given this level after hitting elite cruiserweight level but he's beaten at least one EBU holder who isn't quite EBU level and Ruiz, who was retired level but came back and went straight into world class but not proper world class because he's old and no one rates him level yet we're probably going to have to wait because whoever wins the clashes between the top three will be raised to world, world, world, elite all-time great level and will be a level above everyone else so Chisora may slip down a level just like division one did when they created the cocoa cola league level a few years back.'

The dubious levels panel, Max Molyneux and Horse, are currently tinkering with the above description but it is correct pending a change in levels at the top and/or the WBC giving away a brand spanking new title after VK beats Solis and becomes their "There's another fight on next week so we'll sanction that and give you this shiny new championship ring" belt.

"Applause."

DavidPayne wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:He wasn't European champion at that weight though was he, he is arguably the worst European champion out there and got a shot at Alvarez at the weight above.....complete joke.

Yes he was brave, but he's so limited......far more deserving challengers than him.

Thing is, when talking about Chisora, how many people who have not already fought for the heavyweight title are more deserving of a shot than him? Not many!

The fact he was anywhere near a shot after beating Sam Sexton tells you all you need to know about the heavyweight scene.

Chisora isn't European champion at the weight he would have fought at either, whats your point. And Alvarez fought at Welter. What the WBC added to the fight is irrelevant - Hatton had more credibility than Chisora, but we're sliding off-point.

The point is, Chisora is not, nor has yet been "at world-level".

If his golden ticket shot is gone, he is not entitled to consider himself "at world-level" IMO.

You're arguing with yourself again, and I'm too busy to bother!

If you get a world title shot then you are considered world level. Whether we like it or not, and we don't, he was in the world title mix and now he isn't and should fight Fury.

Chisora isn't world class, but then when it comes to heavyweight only three fighters truly are - Wlad, Vitali and Haye.

The heavyweight cupboard is bare and if Haye does retire in October then things will be even worse...

PS When I say "considered" world level I mean by the champion and the sanctioning body...not us lot.

Of course Chisora doesn't deserve a world title shot but he got one anyway, and he won't be the last.

He's "considered" worthy of taking Wlad's belt off him etc.... :)

I know Payney will love that one.

Payne is "considered" a good left back, unless he's facing Hatton...

Captain Hook wrote:He's "considered" worthy of taking Wlad's belt off him etc.... :)

I know Payney will love that one.

Payne is "considered" a good left back, unless he's facing Hatton...

...then I just look anorexic.

:)

...with a big bell-end.

Captain Hook wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:He wasn't European champion at that weight though was he, he is arguably the worst European champion out there and got a shot at Alvarez at the weight above.....complete joke.

Yes he was brave, but he's so limited......far more deserving challengers than him.

Thing is, when talking about Chisora, how many people who have not already fought for the heavyweight title are more deserving of a shot than him? Not many!

The fact he was anywhere near a shot after beating Sam Sexton tells you all you need to know about the heavyweight scene.

Chisora isn't European champion at the weight he would have fought at either, whats your point. And Alvarez fought at Welter. What the WBC added to the fight is irrelevant - Hatton had more credibility than Chisora, but we're sliding off-point.

The point is, Chisora is not, nor has yet been "at world-level".

If his golden ticket shot is gone, he is not entitled to consider himself "at world-level" IMO.

You're arguing with yourself again, and I'm too busy to bother!

If you get a world title shot then you are considered world level. Whether we like it or not, and we don't, he was in the world title mix and now he isn't and should fight Fury.

Chisora isn't world class, but then when it comes to heavyweight only three fighters truly are - Wlad, Vitali and Haye.
The heavyweight cupboard is bare and if Haye does retire in October then things will be even worse...

Depends on the defition of world class. My definition of world class is someone who looks capable (on "his" night) of beating a current world champion.

Admidetly this definition is might fall a bit short when it comes to a poor world champion - e.g. for example - when Maussa was champ I would have tipped Colin Lynes to have beaten him - does that make Lynes world class? However, if Maussa or anyone could get an upset over a more established champ, well it goes to show that the champion wasn't as good as we thought he was.

I've had this debate with KG before - I know KG sees some world champions as not world class (I don't want another debate on this!) just I do categorise all big 4 champions as world class and all established top 10 fighters who I think are capable of beating one of these are also world class.

Prime example, and it was used by another poster when debating this, is Oktay Urkal.... Now, not many people outside of Germany would have classed this solid EBU champion as world class. However, many people globally would have categorised Vivian Harris as world class. Now, when you see fight 1 that these two had - most thought Urkal won. Should we still go on the opinion of just 3 men when its too declare if Urkal is world class (its not as if Harris lost his world class status with that performance).

I think Valuev in fight 1 showed he could, maybe on a different night, beat Haye. Many thought he beat Haye anyway - so I would certainly classify the big man as world class (otherwise how can Haye be classed as world class with no world class wins to his name - and only 1 top ten win). I would also extend it to include possibly Adamek, Chagaev and Povetkin based on a fight with Haye - although I wouldn't argue much if you disagreed with that.

I'll go along with that...

I think if you and I ballooned in weight and won a few fights we could get in the mix!

I'm confident I could outwork Tony Thompson... :)

Captain Hook wrote:I'll go along with that...

I think if you and I ballooned in weight and won a few fights we could get in the mix!

I'm confident I could outwork Tony Thompson... :)

You take Thompson, I'll go 10x3's with Audley.

I'm joking....before I offend any disciples.

I've never been past 6.

You wouldn't need to go past six with him mate...

Well Sexton had a pretty good world ranking when Chisora beat him didn't he? So doesn't that mean that Chisora is at the lower fringes of world level? You don't have to beat foreigners to get world ranked (but it helps if you do occasionally).

King Geedorah wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:doesn't that mean that Chisora is at the lower fringes of world level?

Aye, but world level has had a short back and sides in recent years so it depends how much was taken off the fringe.

True enough. I look forward to the return of the Afro to world heavyweight boxing.