BoxRec

armageto wrote:Holmes had a bad opening 8 weeks of the season, not 20.

Homeless Larry's seasons did not get going until after Week 20. His wins against against second-rate opposition such as:
Max Baer, Tom Sharkey (X2), Larry Donald & Ike Ibeauchi (weeks 10-18)
Hardly constitute a successful first half of the season. So, I'm afraid I can't agree with you there...

armageto wrote:Plus he's fight what, 8 or 9 cpu controlled fights (At that tiime), and half of those guys never even got picked up to be managed during the season....

You are exhaggerating, Louis has only fought 6 undrafted CPU fighters, these are;
Greg Page, John Ruiz, Jess Willard, Joe Mesi, Martin Rogan & Chris Byrd.

armageto wrote:but he has under preformed

Joe Louis is a 5 time World Champion, in no way has he underperformed.

JDC wrote:Look at who has beat while you've been fighting CPUs, you blinkered idiot

Joe Louis has fought nearly all the top fighters in this season's Sim, it's practically a gallery of who's who of this season.

Muhammad Ali
Rocky Marciano
Jack Dempsey (X2)
Mike Tyson
Jack Johnson
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeanette (X2)
Joe Frazier
Lennox Lewis
Vitali Klitschko
Gene Tunney
Ezzard Charles (this week)
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
James Jeffries (X2)
Archie Moore

Probably the only notable absentee is Larry Holmes, and Joe was campaigning to fight him this week.

Joe Louis has fought everyone.

Crease wrote:

armageto wrote:Holmes had a bad opening 8 weeks of the season, not 20.

Homeless Larry's seasons did not get going until after Week 20. His wins against against second-rate opposition such as:
Max Baer, Tom Sharkey (X2), Larry Donald & Ike Ibeauchi (weeks 10-18)
Hardly constitute a successful first half of the season. So, I'm afraid I can't agree with you there...

armageto wrote:Plus he's fight what, 8 or 9 cpu controlled fights (At that tiime), and half of those guys never even got picked up to be managed during the season....

You are exhaggerating, Louis has only fought 6 undrafted CPU fighters, these are;
Greg Page, John Ruiz, Jess Willard, Joe Mesi, Martin Rogan & Chris Byrd.

armageto wrote:but he has under preformed

Joe Louis is a 5 time World Champion, in no way has he underperformed.

You fought Page twice, so that is 7. If you want to talk about second rate opposition, Louis has fought Haye, Coetzee, Norton, Wlad, McVey, Moore, etc. None of these guys were a major force in the Sim season. As for the 5 time world champ, who cares? That just means you lost the belt 4 times. His longest title reign is THREE defenses AND that was when you could pick your own opponent. Just about every big fight you have been in, you lost. The Rock, Ali, Johnson, Jackson. After Dempsey, you really are short of 5 star wins. A few 4 star wins, but mostly 3 and below. For, what I would assume, rating wise the best fighter at HW, you should have done more.....

In defence of Tyson, and his poor championship record, twice he has won the title and walked into a mandatory defence against a top opponent. To have to fight Louis and Holmes off the back of a hard title win is not ideal. Also, two of those defeats were razor thin MD's that could have gone either way. Ali and Tunney were exceptionally close fights.

Outside of title fights, he's beaten Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Holyfield (x2), McVey, and gained revenge against Baer, six of those inside the distance.

He's done enough for 5th or 6th, I'd say.

armageto wrote:If you want to talk about second rate opposition, Louis has fought Haye, Coetzee, Norton, Wlad, McVey, Moore, etc. None of these guys were a major force in the Sim season.

Listen, all of the top fighters have fought the second-raters sometime in the season, so I don't really see why you are attempting to employ that as a bad endictment on Joe Louis record. It's better fighting them than CPU opposition...

At least I am being realistic about it and saying it as it is.
Whereas you are presenting Holmes' victories over these guys and interpreting it as a good half-season, when it was not.

armageto wrote:As for the 5 time world champ, who cares? That just means you lost the belt 4 times.

If you really want to get in to depth with this, you will find yourself humbled and surprised. And so in that vein, here is Joe's chosen title defences:

Week 14: Voluntarily chose to defend WBA Title Jack Johnson - who has been a consistent top 10 ranking fighter throughout the season.
This was a dangerous fight for Joe to take, but he decided to give Johnson his title shot and paid for it.
He could've chosen an easier option like; Tunney, Charles or Stribling as other Champions had been doing but he took the hard fight.

Week 17: Voluntarily chose to defend WBO Title against Peter Jackson, he could have remained silent and not defended his title this week (like BoxBuzz and Ben K done)...
Louis initally choose to defend his title against Mike Tyson - another dangerous opponent, then after Tyson refused, he wanted to fight Tiger Jack Fox...
Louis chose not to take the easy path here.

Week 23: Joe defend his title against Joe Jeanette - it was Commish' choice week.

Week 31: Joe relinquished his WBO Title to fight Rocky Marciano...
Once again, taking the hard route...

armageto wrote:His longest title reign is THREE defenses AND that was when you could pick your own opponent.

Indeed, and in accorance with the spirit of Open Week. I would alos add that when The Commish propsoed Open Weeks, I was against the idea of it...
But I went along with the crowd on this one, and followed the rules accordingly.
And really, if Managers don't like Champion defending against lower ranked fighters, then Open Weeks should be abolished.

armageto wrote:As for the 5 time world champ, who cares?

Well all the Managers recognise that the aim of the game is to try to become World Champion...
The Bad Man has achieved that five times!!!!!

Crease wrote:

armageto wrote:As for the 5 time world champ, who cares?

Well all the Managers recognise that the aim of the game is to try to become World Champion...
The Bad Man has achieved that five times!!!!!

It only means you lost the belt 4 times. Being a one or two time champion with a long title reign is far more impressive. You also, again, have the number one rated HW in the sim. I hope you would win some titles....

I'm with 'Geto. Louis should be in the automatic bracket with Ali and The Rock. The fact that he's not speaks volumes.

Also, WTF is with people making up shit about Tyson? First Ben and his Jackson's beaten Tyson twice crap, when they've never fought, and now you with your Tyson ducked Louis rubbish, Crease. Tyson was coming off a loss, and therefore not eligible to fight for the title. Get it right or get to fuck.

Crease wrote:

armageto wrote:If you want to talk about second rate opposition, Louis has fought Haye, Coetzee, Norton, Wlad, McVey, Moore, etc. None of these guys were a major force in the Sim season.

Listen, all of the top fighters have fought the second-raters sometime in the season, so I don't really see why you are attempting to employ that as a bad endictment on Joe Louis record. It's better fighting them than CPU opposition...

At least I am being realistic about it and saying it as it is.
Whereas you are presenting Holmes' victories over these guys and interpreting it as a good half-season, when it was not.

armageto wrote:As for the 5 time world champ, who cares? That just means you lost the belt 4 times.

If you really want to get in to depth with this, you will find yourself humbled and surprised. And so in that vein, here is Joe's chosen title defences:

Week 14: Voluntarily chose to defend WBA Title Jack Johnson - who has been a consistent top 10 ranking fighter throughout the season.
This was a dangerous fight for Joe to take, but he decided to give Johnson his title shot and paid for it.
He could've chosen an easier option like; Tunney, Charles or Stribling as other Champions had been doing but he took the hard fight.

Week 17: Voluntarily chose to defend WBO Title against Peter Jackson, he could have remained silent and not defended his title this week (like BoxBuzz and Ben K done)...
Louis initally choose to defend his title against Mike Tyson - another dangerous opponent, then after Tyson refused, he wanted to fight Tiger Jack Fox...
Louis chose not to take the easy path here.

Week 23: Joe defend his title against Joe Jeanette - it was Commish' choice week.

Week 31: Joe relinquished his WBO Title to fight Rocky Marciano...
Once again, taking the hard route...

armageto wrote:His longest title reign is THREE defenses AND that was when you could pick your own opponent.

Indeed, and in accorance with the spirit of Open Week. I would alos add that when The Commish propsoed Open Weeks, I was against the idea of it...
But I went along with the crowd on this one, and followed the rules accordingly.
And really, if Managers don't like Champion defending against lower ranked fighters, then Open Weeks should be abolished.

You must be really not comprehending the whole rating thing. I will break it down in another sport perhaps. In the NBA, if the Heat beat the Hawks, who cares, they are supposed to win that game. If the Knicks beat the Hawks, it is a good win because they are close to the same level. There is NO reason that Louis should have ever fought a computer controlled opponent. When I had S.R.R., I think I did once or twice, and that is because there was NOBODY that wanted to fight him. When I had S.R.R., I always tried to fight the top 10 guys first, then went out to the top 20. My overall point here is, you can't bash Holmes for fighting these mid range guys, when Louis has done the same thing, being a higher rated fighter....

Open weeks should be for fighting guys that could never make it to the top, but have some merit. David Haye? Archie Moore? Your own managed fighter in Norton? none of these guys are currently in the top 30 and at the time you fought them, I guess just Norton was.

What are Louis's biggest fights? Jackson, Dempsey, the Rock, Johnson, and Ali, correct? These guys are close to him or on par overall rating wise and Louis is......1(1)-5(3)!! YOU HAVE LOST THE BIG FIGHTS AGAINST PEOPLE OF THE SAME LEVEL!!!!!

Louis has one 5 star win in Dempsey, which Dempsey later revenged....

1(1)-5(3)!!


Louis was too good for Crease to ruin like Duran and countless others, but still couldn't get over the hump against top notch talent in the ring.....

When Rocky and Jackson dropped titles to face each other they both end up on Creases' shyt list. When Louis drops a title to face Rocky he's "taking the hard road".


Rocky never dropped a title to face a nobody and when he did he won. When crease decided to "call our bluff", he fell flat on his face.

When Rocky took that road it lead somewhere. When Crease took that road he went over a cliff. But to no one's surprise Crease rewrites history to suit himself.

armageto wrote:

Crease wrote:

armageto wrote:If you want to talk about second rate opposition, Louis has fought Haye, Coetzee, Norton, Wlad, McVey, Moore, etc. None of these guys were a major force in the Sim season.

Listen, all of the top fighters have fought the second-raters sometime in the season, so I don't really see why you are attempting to employ that as a bad endictment on Joe Louis record. It's better fighting them than CPU opposition...

At least I am being realistic about it and saying it as it is.
Whereas you are presenting Holmes' victories over these guys and interpreting it as a good half-season, when it was not.

armageto wrote:As for the 5 time world champ, who cares? That just means you lost the belt 4 times.

If you really want to get in to depth with this, you will find yourself humbled and surprised. And so in that vein, here is Joe's chosen title defences:

Week 14: Voluntarily chose to defend WBA Title Jack Johnson - who has been a consistent top 10 ranking fighter throughout the season.
This was a dangerous fight for Joe to take, but he decided to give Johnson his title shot and paid for it.
He could've chosen an easier option like; Tunney, Charles or Stribling as other Champions had been doing but he took the hard fight.

Week 17: Voluntarily chose to defend WBO Title against Peter Jackson, he could have remained silent and not defended his title this week (like BoxBuzz and Ben K done)...
Louis initally choose to defend his title against Mike Tyson - another dangerous opponent, then after Tyson refused, he wanted to fight Tiger Jack Fox...
Louis chose not to take the easy path here.

Week 23: Joe defend his title against Joe Jeanette - it was Commish' choice week.

Week 31: Joe relinquished his WBO Title to fight Rocky Marciano...
Once again, taking the hard route...

armageto wrote:His longest title reign is THREE defenses AND that was when you could pick your own opponent.

Indeed, and in accorance with the spirit of Open Week. I would alos add that when The Commish propsoed Open Weeks, I was against the idea of it...
But I went along with the crowd on this one, and followed the rules accordingly.
And really, if Managers don't like Champion defending against lower ranked fighters, then Open Weeks should be abolished.

You must be really not comprehending the whole rating thing. I will break it down in another sport perhaps. In the NBA, if the Heat beat the Hawks, who cares, they are supposed to win that game. If the Knicks beat the Hawks, it is a good win because they are close to the same level. There is NO reason that Louis should have ever fought a computer controlled opponent. When I had S.R.R., I think I did once or twice, and that is because there was NOBODY that wanted to fight him. When I had S.R.R., I always tried to fight the top 10 guys first, then went out to the top 20. My overall point here is, you can't bash Holmes for fighting these mid range guys, when Louis has done the same thing, being a higher rated fighter....

Open weeks should be for fighting guys that could never make it to the top, but have some merit. David Haye? Archie Moore? Your own managed fighter in Norton? none of these guys are currently in the top 30 and at the time you fought them, I guess just Norton was.

What are Louis's biggest fights? Jackson, Dempsey, the Rock, Johnson, and Ali, correct? These guys are close to him or on par overall rating wise and Louis is......1(1)-5(3)!! YOU HAVE LOST THE BIG FIGHTS AGAINST PEOPLE OF THE SAME LEVEL!!!!!

Louis has one 5 star win in Dempsey, which Dempsey later revenged....

Crease, you should check out this website: www.owned.com

Crease wrote:

jBacca wrote:Louis is a 5 or 6 time champion as is Jackson. Then you've got Dempsey who's on a similar stat but who has been far more consistent at the top.

That is an exhaggeration Jai. Dempsey has not been "far more consistent" than Joe, Louis has also done well agaoinst other top 10 fighters this season.

Commish has put the stats up. Read them. Louis can't carry Dempsey's jockstrap this season.

glittermonkey wrote:and now you with your Tyson ducked Louis rubbish, Crease. Tyson was coming off a loss, and therefore not eligible to fight for the title. Get it right or get to fuck.

I offered you a title shot and you declined citing the fact that you were coming off a loss as the reason...
However, in practically every season I have been here I have noticed fighters getting title shots when coming off losses...

And it's happened again this season (with the WBU Title) although noticably there has been a clamp-down on this happening with the major titles.

armageto wrote:It only means you lost the belt 4 times.

To my credit, I lost it taking the hard fights against Johnson & Jackson (when I could have got away with not defending it).
And the fourth time I never "lost it" I relinquished it.

BoxBuzz wrote:When Rocky and Jackson dropped titles to face each other they both end up on Creases' shyt list. When Louis drops a title to face Rocky he's "taking the hard road".

There's a big difference between running from a madnatory title challenge and simply relinquishing a title.

Both Jackson & Marciano ran from Louis when he was mandatory challenger for their titles.

armageto wrote:There is NO reason that Louis should have ever fought a computer controlled opponent.

WTF are you talking about? Everyone does it, a long time ago I proposed to abolish human-controlled fighters from taking CPU fights, and the idea of it was rejected.

I now invite you to look at Marciano's record, or Ali's or Dempsey's...
All Managers have their fighters fight CPU opposition has back-up fights when they can't get the fights that they wanted... It's just the way it goes.
Even your man Larry Holmes fought CPU opposition as well (Tor Hamer? Ray Austin?)

armageto wrote:Open weeks should be for fighting guys that could never make it to the top, but have some merit. David Haye? Archie Moore? Your own managed fighter in Norton? none of these guys are currently in the top 30 and at the time you fought them, I guess just Norton was.

For your information...
Ken Norton slipped out of the top 30 for the first time this season...
Archie Moore has been ranked in ands out of the top 30 all season long and it appears that he is in the ascendency.
David Haye, well I admit that was a questionable choice, but he had a punhcers chance.

armageto wrote:What are Louis's biggest fights? Jackson, Dempsey, the Rock, Johnson, and Ali, correct? These guys are close to him or on par overall rating wise and Louis is

There aint no shame any of these fights:
Louis vs Ali was a great fight (ask Kevo himself and he'll confirm it)
Louis vs Marciano... Well The Rpock was just at his best and bashed Joe up a bit.
Louis vs Johnson was another competitive fight.
Louis vs Dempsey...Well they have both won a fight each, so I guess it's tied.

armageto wrote:Louis has one 5 star win in Dempsey, which Dempsey later revenged....

Conveniently forgetting Tyson then? Isn't Mike in the running for the Super Six as well.

Id like to know, Is there any other fighter that has beaten. Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Tyson, Loius and Johnson.

PETER JACKSON has

ben k wrote:Id like to know, Is there any other fighter that has beaten. Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Tyson, Loius and Johnson.

PETER JACKSON has

Thats what i want to know.

Peter Jackson HAS to be one of the top 6 fighters this season.

Schmeling has beat then Lonsdale champ Marciano x2 (who fornicating beat Louis the week before). He also has a win over current Undisputed Lonsdale champ Harry Wills.

His record against the candidates is 5(3) - 4(3) - 1

Ali - 2(1)
Rock - 2(1)
Dempsey - Never met
Louis - Ducked by Crease
Jackson - Never met
Tyson - Never met
Johnson - 1(1)
Holmes - 1(1)
Jeanette - 1(1) - 1
Wills (who for some reason Crease also overlooked) - 1 1(1)

Honourable wins:

Jeanette, Moore, Bowe x2

WTF do Title fights against the likes of Ken Norton prove?

Nothing. Its your record against the top guys that matters and after a slow start Schmeling is now proven and has a winning record against the best.

He is a TMDT finalist (lost to Ali), he had a long WBU reign (hense the last of major title fights), he held the Lonsdale and is ranked #1 by ALL organisations. Less the first ten weeks he would be right up towards the top of the rankings. He has been in a Title or tournament fight EVERY week since week 15.

But hey, Crease thinks defending titles against David Haye and fighting non-managed fighters for 20% of the season is the way to go when managing one of the top 2 fighters in history. I don't and Schmelings record stands up against all but Alis (a guy who he is fighting for a third time this week)

JDC wrote:Schmeling has beat then Lonsdale champ Marciano x2 (who effing beat Louis the week before).

So what? Beating Marciano twice is a good achievement...
But you don't really think for one minute that Schmeling deserves a place in the top 6 - based on the strength of just two good victories, do you?

JDC wrote:Louis - Ducked by Crease

Trying to start another myth JDC? When was this supposed "ducking" meant to occur?

JDC wrote:(who for some reason Crease also overlooked)

Well Harry Wills only recently won his first title (WBA in Week 32)... In other words he has spent 30 weeks in title wilderness, you don't really think that a fighter who takes that long to get going is worthy of a top 6 place do you?

JDC wrote:Its your record against the top guys that matters

I don't necessarily think that is true. Beating the top guys does count for something, but losing to second raters would weigh anyone's record down...
Everything needs to be weighed down upon evenly.

JDC wrote:He is a TMDT finalist (lost to Ali), he had a long WBU reign (hense the last of major title fights), he held the Lonsdale and is ranked #1 by ALL organisations.

You boost up Schmeling's chances, yet he has NEVER been a Major World Champion. And surely being a World Champion should 9at least) be the minimum requirement for entry into the Super Six.

JDC wrote:He has been in a Title or tournament fight EVERY week since week 15.

Another myth, where you have included this "Londsale Title" in this... This is not an achievement, much of it is due to other people's good graces- giving you WBU shots and such...

Louis = Under-performing bum fighting ducker.

Schmeling = Over-performing giant killer

JDC wrote:Louis - Ducked by Crease

I've called you out on this, have you no proof?

Crease wrote:

JDC wrote:Louis - Ducked by Crease

I've called you out on this, have you no proof?

Nobody needs this proof Crease. You are king duck

JDC wrote:Nobody needs this proof Crease.

In other words, this is just more bullshit.