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Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 04 Aug 2017, 04:12
by Kalan
dalcumly wrote:Cooper v Amos Johnson
I have the full fight on DVD. Cooper was not at his best and was floored a couple of times from low blows and on both occasions the referee warned johnson. It was foul filled fight with neither boxer dominating. Scrappy affair and Cooper admitted in an interview in the dressing room that he knew from the first round that his timing was out. I could have scored the fight either way to be honest. Johnson was absolutely astonished that he got the decision and for about 30 seconds after his hand was raised didn't full realise he'd got it. He then went berserk jumping all over the place.
In those days British referees were known for their 'fairness' to foreign boxers typified by the decision in 1961 to award the fight to Joe Brown against Dave Charnley , an outcome which caused a mini riot in front of 18,000 fans.I also wrote Charnley's biography and have that fight as well on DVD. Charnley was robbed.
Even British sportswriters knew Cooper lost to Johnson and called his effort "uninspiring'" and worse...
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 06 Aug 2017, 05:27
by scorpio83
Nile4000 wrote:Jimmy would outbox Henry for that ud win.
I agree Nile that Jimmy Ellis would pull his buddy's style to outbox Sir Henry through 15 rounds for a unanimous decision.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 07 Aug 2017, 12:55
by Nile4000
scorpio83 wrote:Nile4000 wrote:Jimmy would outbox Henry for that ud win.
I agree Nile that Jimmy Ellis would pull his buddy's style to outbox Sir Henry through 15 rounds for a unanimous decision.
Scorpio, who knows, there may be a slim chance he could stop him on cuts too
.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 08 Aug 2017, 03:40
by scorpio83
Nile4000 wrote:scorpio83 wrote:Nile4000 wrote:Jimmy would outbox Henry for that ud win.
I agree Nile that Jimmy Ellis would pull his buddy's style to outbox Sir Henry through 15 rounds for a unanimous decision.
Scorpio, who knows, there may be a slim chance he could stop him on cuts too
.
Jimmy Ellis could pull a Muhammad Ali on Sir Henry Cooper by stopping him on cuts.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 27 Mar 2020, 19:56
by marktaha
Was set for 1969. Fell through when BBC refused to recognise it as a world title fight- rightly in my view but Cooper gave up his British title in protest.
I believe that.Ellis would have won but would have had to watch out for.Cooper's left hook
Cooper was offered a title shot at Frazier in 1970 but wisely turned it down. He should have fought Chuvalo.but the thought of him against Frazier or Liston is too ghastly to.contemplate!
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 28 Mar 2020, 17:55
by Scypion
Ellis.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 29 Mar 2020, 16:49
by writehooks
Ellis would've boxed Henry silly en route to a unanimous decision. Chuvalo would pounded him to a pulp before stopping him inside of 8.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 02 Dec 2020, 21:00
by Gary1970
I think even a 35 yr old cooper has a good chance in this , (it was scheduled for December 69) Ellis although speedy and a banger early, wasn't Ali, I think,Cooper,though cut, wins a close decision over Jimmy.
Then Henry fights Frazier at MSG in October 70' floors Joe early,but then gets ground down and stopped in 9
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 02 Dec 2020, 21:04
by Fray Bentos
In his 1971 autobiography, the reason Cooper (in his own words) refused to fight Chuvalo is because Canadian promoters offered too little money for too much risk - also he was 'ugly' according to his manager Jim Wicks. Chuvalo's biggest regret was not fighting or winning the Commonwealth title. A shame really.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 02 Dec 2020, 21:06
by Fray Bentos
Gary1970 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2020, 21:00
I think even a 35 yr old cooper has a good chance in this , (it was scheduled for December 69) Ellis although speedy and a banger early, wasn't Ali, I think,Cooper,though cut, wins a close decision over Jimmy.
You sound like a relative, not a fan! Ellis beats Patterson but loses to an elderly Henry Cooper on points? I don't see how he goes 15 rounds without being cut to shreds.
Then Henry fights Frazier at MSG in October 70' floors Joe early,but then gets ground down and stopped in 9
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 02:24
by klompton
dalcumly wrote: ↑04 Aug 2017, 03:59
Cooper v Amos Johnson
I have the full fight on DVD. Cooper was not at his best and was floored a couple of times from low blows and on both occasions the referee warned johnson. It was foul filled fight with neither boxer dominating. Scrappy affair and Cooper admitted in an interview in the dressing room that he knew from the first round that his timing was out. I could have scored the fight either way to be honest. Johnson was absolutely astonished that he got the decision and for about 30 seconds after his hand was raised didn't full realise he'd got it. He then went berserk jumping all over the place.
In those days British referees were known for their 'fairness' to foreign boxers typified by the decision in 1961 to award the fight to Joe Brown against Dave Charnley , an outcome which caused a mini riot in front of 18,000 fans.I also wrote Charnley's biography and have that fight as well on DVD. Charnley was robbed.
Robbed? Lol. Less than half the fight survives and all of that is edited by the BBC focusing on Charnleys best moments. Brown dominated almost the entire fight, nothing controversial about that decision.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 07:41
by Gary1970
Fray Bentos. Patterson was robbed against Ellis,broke his nose,as well, I'm not saying cooper would beat Jimmy,but he has a chance,I didn't know that cooper was offered Frazier,Joe however was a slow starter and Jim Wicks would probably say to Henry ' give it every thing for five rounds' just my opinion
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 07:44
by Fray Bentos
Gary1970 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 07:41
Fray Bentos. Patterson was robbed against Ellis,broke his nose,as well, I'm not saying cooper would beat Jimmy,but he has a chance,I didn't know that cooper was offered Frazier,Joe however was a slow starter and Jim Wicks would probably say to Henry ' give it every thing for five rounds' just my opinion
Patterson vs Ellis was
close and Patterson was the 'home' fighter (albeit in Sweden) and it was a lot closer than Cooper vs Patterson
Cooper wouldn't lasted 15 rounds with Ellis - no way in a million years.
Cooper would not have put Frazier on the deck and it wouldn't have gone nine rounds, probably two or three rounds, which is why Cooper and Wicks swerved it.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 08:14
by DrDuke
Ellis would definitely outbox sluggish Cooper, but Ellis wasn't a defensive wizard, so Enry would have a lot of opportunities to ice Jimmy.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 08:18
by Fray Bentos
DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 08:14
Ellis would definitely outbox sluggish Cooper, but Ellis wasn't a defensive wizard, so Enry would have a lot of opportunities to ice Jimmy.
Ellis would just slash him to defeat in 6-8 rounds, I just can't see how he wouldn't. It would be closer that Patterson vs Cooper though.
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 28 Nov 2022, 14:55
by marktaha
Who exactly are you and how can I find your books? .
Cooper - Ellis -BBBC refused to recognise as title fight rightly in my view. Cooper relinquished British title in protest . Was offered shot at Frazier in 1970.
Think Ellis would have won but not that easily. Frazier - Cooper too ghastly to contemplate!
Re: Jimmy Ellis V Henry Cooper, who wins?
Posted: 29 Nov 2022, 14:38
by Ambling Alp II
Fray Bentos wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 08:18
DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 08:14
Ellis would definitely outbox sluggish Cooper, but Ellis wasn't a defensive wizard, so Enry would have a lot of opportunities to ice Jimmy.
Ellis would just slash him to defeat in 6-8 rounds, I just can't see how he wouldn't. It would be closer that Patterson vs Cooper though.
6-8 sounds right, but who knows. Ellis was a better defensive fighter than Patterson but didn't have Patterson's power.
