BoxRec

Yes he did win the fight. My point (obviously) was that Fury was not fighting a Chisora at anything like his best.

Kilburn wrote:Yes he did win the fight. My point (obviously) was that Fury was not fighting a Chisora at anything like his best.

Fury wasn't at his best either. Fury won the fight easily it was a victory not a "victory".

Vitali and Helenius had excuses for their performances against Chisora. I suppose Chisora deserves no credit for performing well against them?

If someone is slightly depressed leading up to a fight and then they lose, I suppose they only "lost" the fight. Any excuse and it is a "loss" rather than a loss. What a load of shite.

For being a behemoth, Fury is quite impressive in my view. How many guys in excess of 6'5" not named Klitschko can you name who was actually any good? Not many. What impresses me most about him is that he is willing to learn and adapt to every opponent he faces. To switch from orthodox to southpaw in training for Rogan was quite amazing to me as so many young fighters stick to "what works" rather than change themselves for the better. I think in two-three years Fury will be the man to look out for, until then I would like him to solidify his position in Europe by fighting Price and Helenius.

As a neutral observer I prefer to look at what actually took place leading up to as well as during the fight not just the result. I quite like Fury and would always wish him well, which is why if he got sparked out I wouldn't be in the slightest bit happy about it.

But the real load of shite is the idea that somehow Fury has swept Chisora aside and left him behind. There was more to the fight than the result, a lot more.

Chisora is likely to give David Haye a very tough fight on Saturday night, maybe even more than that. Haye would likely KO Fury pretty much whenever he felt like IMO. Let's be real Horse.

Kilburn wrote:As a neutral observer I prefer to look at what actually took place leading up to as well as during the fight not just the result. I quite like Fury and would always wish him well, which is why if he got sparked out I wouldn't be in the slightest bit happy about it.

But the real load of shite is the idea that somehow Fury has swept Chisora aside and left him behind. There was more to the fight than the result, a lot more.

How much more was there though, really? Chisora seemed intimidated by Fury and came in bad shape and then Fury won easily. Based on what happened the first time, why should anyone assume that Chisora could beat Fury if they both came in at their best? Chisora is in better shape now, but so is Fury.

Kilburn wrote:Chisora is likely to give David Haye a very tough fight on Saturday night, maybe even more than that. Haye would likely KO Fury pretty much whenever he felt like IMO. Let's be real Horse.

I disagree, Kilburn. I don't think Haye can knock out any top heavyweight when he chooses. Haye's power at heavyweight is good, but not devastating.

I think Fury would be able to take a good few whacks from Haye and survive. I think Fury at his best could use his size to beat Haye in pretty much the same way that Wladimir beat him, although probably not as effectively.

I was one of the ones criticising Fury early on, which now may be viewed as unfairly, but I think he deserved it then and less so now. His conditioning and commitment seems better, technique decent and he can box.
I think the British public always struggle with a lot of hype especially when the opponents aren't there, we're sick of the padded record scenario. The Chisora and McDermott wins are decent but he has gone back and it doesn't appear that he'll be doing any more between now and a Klitchsko shot other than trying to maintain an '0' against cannon fodder.

I'm amazed that any regular fan would pick Fury to outbox Haye though. You've been caught up in the David Haye press machine - he manages to undersell himself and make it look like domestic level fighters would have any chance against him... they wouldn't. Chisora will be handily beaten but it would go longer than Haye would take to annihilate Fury, who has nothing like Dereck's chin.

I'm all for credit where it's due, but you undermine your arguments for Fury by saying he's in Haye's league. It's a miracle of pubilicity that we bought the Harrison-Haye fight and now will be buying the Chisora one...

sharpei_louis wrote:I'm amazed that any regular fan would pick Fury to outbox Haye though. You've been caught up in the David Haye press machine - he manages to undersell himself and make it look like domestic level fighters would have any chance against him... they wouldn't. Chisora will be handily beaten but it would go longer than Haye would take to annihilate Fury, who has nothing like Dereck's chin.

I'm all for credit where it's due, but you undermine your arguments for Fury by saying he's in Haye's league. It's a miracle of pubilicity that we bought the Harrison-Haye fight and now will be buying the Chisora one...

I didn't say Fury would outbox Haye. I meant that he could outsize him effectively.

Haye was an impressive force at cruiserweight, but at heavyweight he will have to work hard to beat any top heavyweight. I am not saying he cannot do it, but he is not levels above any top 10 heavyweight.

Horse wrote:

sharpei_louis wrote:I'm amazed that any regular fan would pick Fury to outbox Haye though. You've been caught up in the David Haye press machine - he manages to undersell himself and make it look like domestic level fighters would have any chance against him... they wouldn't. Chisora will be handily beaten but it would go longer than Haye would take to annihilate Fury, who has nothing like Dereck's chin.

I'm all for credit where it's due, but you undermine your arguments for Fury by saying he's in Haye's league. It's a miracle of pubilicity that we bought the Harrison-Haye fight and now will be buying the Chisora one...

I didn't say Fury would outbox Haye. I meant that he could outsize him effectively.

Haye was an impressive force at cruiserweight, but at heavyweight he will have to work hard to beat any top heavyweight. I am not saying he cannot do it, but he is not levels above any top 10 heavyweight.

When you say outsize like Wlad did I assumed you meant box him on the end of a jab; Wlad didn't really outsize him by leaning or roughhousing him, or pushing him around the ring, I think it was generally outboxing him.
You may be right that Haye would have to work hard to beat any top heavyweight, in which case Fury isn't one. Cause he has neither the dig, the footwork nor the chin to keep Haye off for more than 4-5 rounds IMO.

I fed up with people saying that chisora was not at is best when he boxed fury thats is own lazy fault. ppl who put down fury and big up chisora need to understand chisora best win in a year or so was against a cruiserweight journyman. No matter if he as put a good performance in is last couple of fights chisora as lost is last 3 out of 4 fights thats a fact.

sharpei_louis wrote:When you say outsize like Wlad did I assumed you meant box him on the end of a jab; Wlad didn't really outsize him by leaning or roughhousing him, or pushing him around the ring, I think it was generally outboxing him.

The size advantage helped Wladimir to "outbox" Haye. If he was the same size it would have been nowhere near as easy for him. However, I am not suggesting that Haye would have beaten Wladimir if they were the same size.

sharpei_louis wrote:You may be right that Haye would have to work hard to beat any top heavyweight, in which case Fury isn't one. Cause he has neither the dig, the footwork nor the chin to keep Haye off for more than 4-5 rounds IMO.

I disagree. I think that Fury is a top heavyweight and I think his chin is decent enough to withstand at least a reasonable assault of heavy punches from any heavyweight in the world. I think after a few heavy shots have landed that he can go into "defensive mode" and survive against anyone (although that has yet to be proven).

I think Fury's power is also underrated, he is a volume puncher similar to Vitali, he throws to the head and body in clusters and doesn't look to load up on single punches. I think Fury's power would make Haye think twice and I think that he could stop Haye.

Horse wrote:

Kilburn wrote:As a neutral observer I prefer to look at what actually took place leading up to as well as during the fight not just the result. I quite like Fury and would always wish him well, which is why if he got sparked out I wouldn't be in the slightest bit happy about it.

But the real load of shite is the idea that somehow Fury has swept Chisora aside and left him behind. There was more to the fight than the result, a lot more.

How much more was there though, really? Chisora seemed intimidated by Fury and came in bad shape and then Fury won easily. Based on what happened the first time, why should anyone assume that Chisora could beat Fury if they both came in at their best? Chisora is in better shape now, but so is Fury.

Kilburn wrote:Chisora is likely to give David Haye a very tough fight on Saturday night, maybe even more than that. Haye would likely KO Fury pretty much whenever he felt like IMO. Let's be real Horse.

I disagree, Kilburn. I don't think Haye can knock out any top heavyweight when he chooses. Haye's power at heavyweight is good, but not devastating.

I think Fury would be able to take a good few whacks from Haye and survive. I think Fury at his best could use his size to beat Haye in pretty much the same way that Wladimir beat him, although probably not as effectively.

I don't think Haye can KO any top heavyweight whenever he chooses either. But Fury is not a top heavyweight. I would actually be willing Tyson to hang in there against Haye's punches but could only honestly see one devastating outcome.

I find it hard to believe Chisora was intimidated by Fury, it's laughable in fact. I was genuinely glad that Fury won though, as ugly as it was. Yes Fury is in better shape since that night but I have to prefer Chisora's version of better shape.

Everything said, I do root for Fury believe it or not. But he has to prove more to me besides demonstrating he can get to an acceptable fighting weight after 18 fights.

Kilburn wrote:I don't think Haye can KO any top heavyweight whenever he chooses either. But Fury is not a top heavyweight. I would actually be willing Tyson to hang in there against Haye's punches but could only honestly see one devastating outcome.

I find it hard to believe Chisora was intimidated by Fury, it's laughable in fact. I was genuinely glad that Fury won though, as ugly as it was. Yes Fury is in better shape since that night but I have to prefer Chisora's version of better shape.

Everything said, I do root for Fury believe it or not. But he has to prove more to me besides demonstrating he can get to an acceptable fighting weight after 18 fights.

We have a difference of opinion about Fury and I don't think there is much point in continuing to argue about it.

I think Fury has what it takes to mix with the best and others disagree, we will see.

Just remember I'm rooting for the guy, and would love to be surprised.

Kilburn wrote:Just remember I'm rooting for the guy, and would love to be surprised.

I hope you are.

Horse wrote:

sharpei_louis wrote:When you say outsize like Wlad did I assumed you meant box him on the end of a jab; Wlad didn't really outsize him by leaning or roughhousing him, or pushing him around the ring, I think it was generally outboxing him.

The size advantage helped Wladimir to "outbox" Haye. If he was the same size it would have been nowhere near as easy for him. However, I am not suggesting that Haye would have beaten Wladimir if they were the same size.

sharpei_louis wrote:You may be right that Haye would have to work hard to beat any top heavyweight, in which case Fury isn't one. Cause he has neither the dig, the footwork nor the chin to keep Haye off for more than 4-5 rounds IMO.

I disagree. I think that Fury is a top heavyweight and I think his chin is decent enough to withstand at least a reasonable assault of heavy punches from any heavyweight in the world. I think after a few heavy shots have landed that he can go into "defensive mode" and survive against anyone (although that has yet to be proven).

I think Fury's power is also underrated, he is a volume puncher similar to Vitali, he throws to the head and body in clusters and doesn't look to load up on single punches. I think Fury's power would make Haye think twice and I think that he could stop Haye.

Mate putting speechmarks around 'outbox' just makes you look like you're being awkward for the sake of it. Clearly Wlad's boxing ability is linked to his size, I accept, but you're being pedantic in the extreme to try and pick apart my argument by insisting you solely meant Wlad 'outsized' Haye rather than outboxing him. Clearly it was both. I assume Wlad's tactics vs Haye's tactics were irrelevant and it was solely down to size?

And I think it's clear from your post that you just rate Fury very highly indeed on very little evidence. Fair play, your opinion, I feel that time will prove otherwise. If Haye rocks Valuev and downs Ruiz, old as he was, he has more than enough power to turn Fury's lights out on the basis of the calibre of opponent that Fury has been wobbled by.
That's the evidence I'm basing my argument on - I'd be interested to hear the evidence you have of Fury withstanding 'a reasonable assault from any heavyweight in the world'...?
Secondly, Haye took decent shots from Wlad and on that basis I have seen little to suggest Fury has the better chin of the two.

If you are trying to argue that Fury has both a better chin and more power than Haye, I honestly haven't got much more to put to you - I feel it makes you look like a fanatic rather than an objective analyst.

Do i like Fury ? a resounding yes.

Do i think can win a world title ? need more evidence.

Same goes for Price & Chisora, whom i both like too. There is no need to pick sides amongst them.

I think he's a breath of fresh air but I don't like his dad.

sharpei_louis wrote:Mate putting speechmarks around 'outbox' just makes you look like you're being awkward for the sake of it. Clearly Wlad's boxing ability is linked to his size, I accept, but you're being pedantic in the extreme to try and pick apart my argument by insisting you solely meant Wlad 'outsized' Haye rather than outboxing him. Clearly it was both. I assume Wlad's tactics vs Haye's tactics were irrelevant and it was solely down to size?

Well then I think that Fury could "outbox" Haye using his size. I wasn't trying to be awkward I was trying to explain what I meant.

sharpei_louis wrote:And I think it's clear from your post that you just rate Fury very highly indeed on very little evidence. Fair play, your opinion, I feel that time will prove otherwise.

Fury beat Chisora better than Helenius or Vitali, that is evidence in his favour. Fury beat Firtha in 5 rounds and Firtha went the distance with Povetkin only 9 months earlier and went the distance with Banks 5 months later, that is evidence in his favour. Fury stopped Maddalone in the 5th round just like top 10 ranked Adamek did, which is evidence in Fury's favour.

sharpei_louis wrote:If Haye rocks Valuev and downs Ruiz, old as he was, he has more than enough power to turn Fury's lights out on the basis of the calibre of opponent that Fury has been wobbled by.
That's the evidence I'm basing my argument on - I'd be interested to hear the evidence you have of Fury withstanding 'a reasonable assault from any heavyweight in the world'...?

Valuev and Ruiz are leagues above Fury are they? I don't think that is the case, and I would pick him to beat both of them. That is not because I think they are bad, it is because I think Fury is good.

sharpei_louis wrote:Secondly, Haye took decent shots from Wlad and on that basis I have seen little to suggest Fury has the better chin of the two.

Haye took what from Wlad? One shot at a time?

Fury doesn't fight like Wladimir and I can imagine Fury wearing Haye down later on in the fight and stopping him.

sharpei_louis wrote:If you are trying to argue that Fury has both a better chin and more power than Haye, I honestly haven't got much more to put to you - I feel it makes you look like a fanatic rather than an objective analyst.

Who has Haye stopped at heavyweight? Barrett, Ruiz and Harrison. That isn't bad and I think that he does have more power than Fury, but I think his stamina might not be as good as Fury's and I think Fury's size advantage could get to him. I think Fury could land on Haye easier than Haye could land on Fury.

Yes!

Are people forgetting that Fury got hurt by Chisora and Firtha and put on his arse hard by Pajkic. But some now think he has the chin to stand up to Haye and the power to stop him. Since being dropped he's being matched carefully which is a pretty sensible thing to do but he has to step up soon and when he does I think he may be in for a shock.

what irks me with the criticism of fury are the constant comparisons to audley (albeit from mainly part time boxing fans).
Fury comes to fight at least, when he goes out, it will be on his sheild at least.

Chisora's conditioning has improved no more than Fury's since they boxed. Chisora would never beat Fury. He has neither the punch or style to win.

ShadrachSimmo wrote:Are people forgetting that Fury got hurt by Chisora and Firtha and put on his arse hard by Pajkic. But some now think he has the chin to stand up to Haye and the power to stop him. Since being dropped he's being matched carefully which is a pretty sensible thing to do but he has to step up soon and when he does I think he may be in for a shock.

This. Fury has been made to look better than he is. I stand by resolutely that he has neither the chin to withstand Haye nor the dig to hurt him.

sharpei_louis wrote:

ShadrachSimmo wrote:Are people forgetting that Fury got hurt by Chisora and Firtha and put on his arse hard by Pajkic. But some now think he has the chin to stand up to Haye and the power to stop him. Since being dropped he's being matched carefully which is a pretty sensible thing to do but he has to step up soon and when he does I think he may be in for a shock.

This. Fury has been made to look better than he is. I stand by resolutely that he has neither the chin to withstand Haye nor the dig to hurt him.

Does wlad have a better chin then fury? At heavyweight one puch changers fight point is fury comes to fight and will get hit but he knows how to get a win. Also fury throws more punchs then any heavyweight i have seen in the last few years and he is only 23 lot more to come.

clintonmcphilbin wrote:

sharpei_louis wrote:

ShadrachSimmo wrote:Are people forgetting that Fury got hurt by Chisora and Firtha and put on his arse hard by Pajkic. But some now think he has the chin to stand up to Haye and the power to stop him. Since being dropped he's being matched carefully which is a pretty sensible thing to do but he has to step up soon and when he does I think he may be in for a shock.

This. Fury has been made to look better than he is. I stand by resolutely that he has neither the chin to withstand Haye nor the dig to hurt him.

Does wlad have a better chin then fury? At heavyweight one puch changers fight point is fury comes to fight and will get hit but he knows how to get a win. Also fury throws more punchs then any heavyweight i have seen in the last few years and he is only 23 lot more to come.

I think that by the time you're saying that Fury is Wlad it may have gone just a little too far in terms of your praise for him. Yes, Wlad has a questionable chin, but I would suggest that he has developed into a fighter better at protecting it under Steward. I know Fury has improved, have said as much, but now to be comparing him to Wlad and suggesting he would beat Haye is misguided in my humble opinion. Seems the more you criticise someone on here the more their status grows in the eyes of some.