BoxRec

driscoll was quite brilliant as film on youtube shows. charnley was a super fighter who must rate highly as was nel tarleton (for me perhaps a shade below real world class.) but i'm going to mention dick mctaggart - a real ring genius who never fought pro but must be one of the best ever boxers from these shores won 610 out of 630-ish amateur bouts! absolutely first rate and must rank very high

Ambling Alp wrote:I guess my biggest negative with McVoy and Harvey is that neither has a win that really jumops out at you. They of course fought each other and had some nice wins but nothing eye opening. Harvey lost twice to Vince Dundee. Harvey did beat Thil once (and lost to him) and Dave shade, so I guess I would give him a very slight edge over McAvoy. both were very consistent and had long careers.
Both lost to John Henry Lewis.

The thing to bear in mind with McAvoy is that he was essentially a middleweight who was obliged to box light-heavies as he couldn't find enough competition at his own weight.

The 'eye-popping' win you are looking for is his first-round KO defeat of the reigning middleweight world champ Babe Risko. Apparently, after that, McAvoy pressed for a shot at Risko's title, but Risko's handlers wouldn't let him anywhere near the champ after such a devastating loss.

So McAvoy fought John Henry Lewis for the world light-heavyweight crown (not his native weight) instead. He went the distance with Lewis then the following year was back at his real weight, defending his British middleweight title.

Harvey, on the other hand, was a master boxer but had a safety-first style that did not please American crowds. He was a big favourite against Vince Dundee, and according to Gilbert Odd's biography of Harvey, the majority of ringside reporters thought Harvey had won both fights comfortably. Apparently Harvey left America much earlier than planned, sickened by the influence the mob had on the sport over there. The biography suggests the two Dundee fights were fixed by the mob so that gamblers could clean up.

At the time of his American trip Harvey was ranked by 'The Ring' magazine as number 1 middlewight contender to world champion Mickey Walker. Dave Shade (whom Harvey had beaten) was number 2 and Jack Hood (whom Harvey had also beaten) was number 4. See here: http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_R ... ings:_1930

John Henry Lewis was of course an all-time great, and Harvey gave him a close, hard fight. 'Boxing' (forerunner of 'Boxing News') wrote: 'Altogether it was a fine, honest-to-goodness battle, each showing himself to be a master of ringcraft and strategy, having all the tricks of the trade at his finger tips but employing them fairly.' (11 Nov 1936.)

After the fight Harvey told the paper 'This fellow Lewis is good. I am not going to quibble about the result, but I am sure that there are many who thought I was just in front.'

I've read elsewhere that the verdict was just, but that Harvey attacked more in the closing rounds and if he'd been more aggressive earlier in the fight he may have clinched the verdict.

misterpunch wrote:charnley was a super fighter who must rate highly as was nel tarleton (for me perhaps a shade below real world class.)

Tarleton was undeniably world class. For starters, he featured in The Ring's annual top 10 ratings for much of the 1930s (no easy feat for a British boxer who hadn't fought much in America): http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_R ... ght--1930s

Though sadly they're all but forgotten today, Britain had a wealth of genuine world-class fly, bantam, feather and lightweights during the 1930s. But in those days of course there were only eight universal weight classes with just one champion at each weight (aside from disputes over vacated titles), so these men rarely, if ever, got chances to fight for world titles.

Among the world-class men Tarleton beat were Johnny Cuthbert, Seaman Tommy Watson, Dick Corbett, Johnny King, Johnny Cusick, Jim (Spider) Kelly, Jimmy Walsh and Dave Crowley. All of them were in The Ring's annual top 10 ratings during the 1930s.

That reminds me, the Dave Crowley of the mid to late '30s is another good pick for a great British boxer who came close to winning a world title. In 1936 he drew with reigning world champ Mike Belloise to earn a shot at the latter's title, but unfortunately he was KO'd in his world title fight by a punch that may have been illegal (Crowley claimed he was fouled, the ref disagreed and counted him out).

Another fighter to add to the mix is Ernie Roderick:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Though few people will have heard of them today, Eric Boon, Arthur Danahar, Harry Mizler, Vince Hawkins, Ginger Sadd, Jake Kilrain, George Daly, George Rose, George Odwell, Dave McCleave and Norman Snow (all men who Roderick beat) were outstanding fighters.

When you compare the quantity and quality of domestic fights Roderick had with those Britain's top welterweights have today, there really is no comparison.

He only got one shot at a world title and it's a shame that it had to be against Henry Armstrong, one of the greatest ever. Nevertheless he performed well against Armstrong and gave him a very good fight.

Roderick was really entering his prime when WW2 started, and while he managed to fit in a few domestic fights, there was no chance of him mounting a campaign for another world title shot, and so his best years were pretty much wasted.

totally agree - ernie was very talented and his excellent showing against arguably THE best in any weight class - armstrong - is testament to his ability