best british boxer never to win a world title

[semtexreilly]

herol bomber graham for me,thought he was brilliant,had the lot,apart from his chin,one of my all time favourites to watch

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Off the top of my head I would say Len Harvey. He was much greater than Graham.

[Bladder]

Herol Graham had enough chances to win a world title

Len Harvey is a much better shout ...... or Jock McAvoy.

[dr_devious]

Jim Driscoll

[milpool]

Audley Harrison...sorry, joke.

Herol Graham is the obvious one but Tony Sibson isn't such a bad shout. If he were fighting today I suspect he'd have lifted some kind of world title. He was never quite world class but he gave value for money.

[Seamus]

What Middleweight belt holders (WBA-WBC-IBF-WBO) do you see Tony Sibson beating ?

Not disputing the claim by the way, just like to hear some feedback.

[Controversial]

Herol Graham a good shout but another name not mentioned so far is Dave Charnley

[milpool]

What Middleweight belt holders (WBA-WBC-IBF-WBO) do you see Tony Sibson beating ?

Not disputing the claim by the way, just like to hear some feedback.

Probably none of them at present, what I perhaps should have said is that he fought at the wrong time.
Had he come around a few years later than he did I don't doubt he could have been in with a shout at beating the likes of Chris Pyatt, Otis Grant, Bert Schenk etc for the WBO title.
I doubt he would have been in with a shout of the other belts though. There's no way you could put him at the level of Hopkins, Pavlik, Benn, McClellan etc...

[metchampion]

Herol Graham a good shout but another name not mentioned so far is Dave Charnley

Nothing controversial Bout Charnley being near the top of the list.

[HomicideHenry]

I would say Driscoll; many a man in England considered him to be the best boxer they had ever seen, though he never won the title.

There are alot of men, not just in the gloved era, but in the bare knuckle era that were incredibly good. Mind you, this island nation was the Mecca of the boxing world for a very, very long time. Its a shame alot of these warriors have been either forgotten or dismissed, or have not been learned much about to make a judgement on.

[featherweight1]

KIRKLAND LANG? HE HAD THE ABILITY JUST NOT THE DEDICATION!
HOW ABOUT ALAN RUDKIN?
JOHNNY OWEN?
KEVIN FINNEGAN?
ALL CAME CLOSE

[Ambling Alp]

Looks to be between Owen Moran and Driscoll.
Interesting since another thread was started about why Moran is so overlooked.

[Alex]

As already mentioned... Driscoll, Moran, McAvoy and Harvey; plus Nel Tarleton and Seaman Tommy Watson deserve consideration.

Dick Corbett, Johnny King, Al Foreman, Eric Boon, Ernie Roderick and Dave Charnley would also warrant inclusion if you were compiling a list.

[keithmoonhangover]

KIRKLAND LANG? HE HAD THE ABILITY JUST NOT THE DEDICATION!
HOW ABOUT ALAN RUDKIN?
JOHNNY OWEN?
KEVIN FINNEGAN?
ALL CAME CLOSE

Lang could have been a legend in the sport. He would have beaten Duran everytime they fought.

[Ambling Alp]

As already mentioned... Driscoll, Moran, McAvoy and Harvey; plus Nel Tarleton and Seaman Tommy Watson deserve consideration.

Dick Corbett, Johnny King, Al Foreman, Eric Boon, Ernie Roderick and Dave Charnley would also warrant inclusion if you were compiling a list.

Moran and Driscoll almost have to be 1-2, unless there is someone obvious that we are missing.. These guys that you mention would be worth considering for top 10. Probably a few others that are close.

[Controversial]

KIRKLAND LANG? HE HAD THE ABILITY JUST NOT THE DEDICATION!
HOW ABOUT ALAN RUDKIN?
JOHNNY OWEN?
KEVIN FINNEGAN?
ALL CAME CLOSE

Lang could have been a legend in the sport. He would have beaten Duran everytime they fought.

You reckon? I don't know about that, Duran fought a stinker that night, well under par performance. Not taking anything off Laing but I doubt an "up for it" Duran would have been so easy. Laing's chin was his downfall, all the training and dedication in the world wouldn't have changed it.

[featherweight1]

it would have been great to see a return bout between kirk and Duran maybe even for a world title,(if kirk had not gone off the rails for a year after that win maybe it could have happened!) i think with all the skill and natural talent laing had he could of and should of gone alot further than he did in boxing! its a shame he wasted what he had for most of his career....

[Controversial]

it would have been great to see a return bout between kirk and Duran maybe even for a world title,(if kirk had not gone off the rails for a year after that win maybe it could have happened!) i think with all the skill and natural talent laing had he could of and should of gone alot further than he did in boxing! its a shame he wasted what he had for most of his career....

The Duran who later fought Moore and Hagler would've destroyed Laing in my opinion. It's an often asked question about Laing, was he really as good as everyone thought he was, hard to say really, certainly talented but was he truly a top level world class fighter?. Duran was definitely the highlight of his career, other than that he tended to lose when he fought the better fighters.

[stevek3lly]

Jamie Moore and Ryan Rhodes need to be in with a shout.

[banjo]

Don't know about the best but Graham, Holligan and Cowdell were all good enough to have held a world title at some point but never did.

[Alex]

As already mentioned... Driscoll, Moran, McAvoy and Harvey; plus Nel Tarleton and Seaman Tommy Watson deserve consideration.

Dick Corbett, Johnny King, Al Foreman, Eric Boon, Ernie Roderick and Dave Charnley would also warrant inclusion if you were compiling a list.

Moran and Driscoll almost have to be 1-2, unless there is someone obvious that we are missing.. These guys that you mention would be worth considering for top 10. Probably a few others that are close.

I don't think it's at all clear cut, but if pushed I would actually choose Tarleton ahead of Driscoll and Moran. He was fighting at a time when the featherweight division was astonishingly strong in Britain and he consistently beat the best men around, with very few losses, for 20 years!

He had two terrific world title fights with all-time great Freddie Miller, lost both on points but apparently deserved the verdict in one.

Then, finally, his win (aged 39) over the 25-year-old Al Phillips to recapture the British featherweight crown (then a significant title in its own right and no mere stepping stone like it is today) set the seal on his excellence.

Another truly remarkable thing is that he only had one lung!

[Ambling Alp]

I would still go with Driscoll and Moran for 1-2. However, Tarleton is right up there. Maybe even #3. Certainly an underrated fighter who you rarely hear about.

[Alex]

Fair dos - it's a subjective thing. I think strong arguments could be made for McAvoy, Harvey and Watson too but it's difficult to compare the merits of men from different decades and weight classes.

[Ambling Alp]

You have brought up some interesting and often overlooked names.
Yes it is hard to rate fighters in different eras and especially vastly different weight classes. You have to weigh the positives and negatives against the others and see who think has the most upside.
I guess my biggest negative with McVoy and Harvey is that neither has a win that really jumops out at you. They of course fought each other and had some nice wins but nothing eye opening. Harvey lost twice to Vince Dundee. Harvey did beat Thil once (and lost to him) and Dave shade, so I guess I would give him a very slight edge over McAvoy. both were very consistent and had long careers.
Both lost to John Henry Lewis. Obviously not embarrassing, but Moran and Driscoll seemed to show they could be very competitive with the very best fighters of the world.
Both did well against Attell, and Moran knocked out Battling Nelson.

Watson did beat LaBarba (not LaBarba at his best, but still a nice win.) However he lost both times to Miller and Kid Chocolate. Again, certainly not embarrassing losses, but a win over either would have gone a long way.

In a nutshell, I consider Driscoll and Moran to be legitimate Hall of Famers. Watson and Tarleton are not in but have a decent case. I don't think Harvey and McVoy are quite at that level. (Though certainly better than some of the bad picks that are in.)

Maybe a top 6 would look something like this:

1. Moran
2. Driscoll
3. Tarleton
4. Watson
5. Harvey
6. McAvoy

I go back and forth between Moran and Driscoll. All of these guys are underrated to some extent. Moran,Driscoll, Watson, and Tarleton easily could have been long reigning world champions under other circumstances.

[Crease]

Henry Cooper - had there of been four World titles in his day, I daresay that he would have won one of them somehwere down the line, he was a a really tough competitor.

Eamon Magee - Magee was never a ture World Champion, but he had the tools and talent to do it... If only his party lifestyle hadn't of let him down.