9th march ochieng v carruthers

[maley1984]

i enjoy reading your posts and banter. i know your close to the team or a big fan of ochieng so why no comment. i think it will b a tough fight with ochieng winning on points but being made to work hard for 10 solid rounds. i just hoped his next fight wud of been with a top 10 rival, which if rose had have vacated maybe it wud of been.[/quote]
I know that, so many of us want to see certain fights on a domestic level and we ask ourselves why don't these fights take place it can become very annoying. Things at Matchroom has also change as they have to deliver 20 shows in 12 months and my opinion is that they are still adjusting to this very non stop work effort along with looking after high profile boxers fighting abroad. It is tough with different tv deals and boxers with different promoters. If you ask Erick , I guess he wouldn't want to defend the English belt again but with Liam smith with another promoter and Brian Rose not sure about British title what can he do, its not in his hands. We have to be patience and all respect to Mr Carruthers a lovely guy and good sport who turns out for a war and gives value for money.[/quote]


fair points mate terry will give any one a hard nights work and is very capable of an upset.

[Looking On]

rather than calling Carruthers a journeyman id say hes more like a domestic gatekeeper , the guy who when the prospects step up he is the man they should be looking to get past , a bit like shane Mcphilbin , Both Terry and shane would beat those who arent going to cut it but should in theory get beat by those who have REAL title aspirations .

Id put the gatekeeper catergory as people like Curuthers , mcphilbin , max maxwell and John Mcdermott , they can cause the odd surprise and get themselves in the domestic mix but on the whole theyll be on the fringe , a bit like Monte Barrett or glen Johnson when it comes to world level

[jonp]

rather than calling Carruthers a journeyman id say hes more like a domestic gatekeeper , the guy who when the prospects step up he is the man they should be looking to get past , a bit like shane Mcphilbin , Both Terry and shane would beat those who arent going to cut it but should in theory get beat by those who have REAL title aspirations .

Id put the gatekeeper catergory as people like Curuthers , mcphilbin , max maxwell and John Mcdermott , they can cause the odd surprise and get themselves in the domestic mix but on the whole theyll be on the fringe , a bit like Monte Barrett or glen Johnson when it comes to world level

Very good post and as trainer of a couple of these guys i agree.Its not good making out yr lad is a big time prospect if hes not but if hes a solid fighter with a will to win attitude to be labeled a Journeyman really can be annoying.

It would be nice for everyone to be put in 50 50 fights everytime with plenty of notice but it doesnt happen and if it doesnt happen you got two choices make something happen or sit around waiting for the odd easy fight talking about what you could do.

[canonball1234]

A better fight would be a rematch at 11stone 6 pounds and defend English title after

[Boxingcutsman]

Has my original post said, Terry always gives it his all, and he's a brilliant kid, I think your over looking the post and focusing on the word "journeyman" to much for what ever reason. Gate keeper, journeyman, what ever you want to class Terry has, he losses more than he wins fact, and on the road, so like it or not he comes under that bracket mate. What I have starred to ask myself is this then, why do managers and trainers take there lads on the road in the role of a "journeyman" if for some reason they hate the label of a journeyman ? A journeyman is someone who most if the time gives there opponent a tough test, gives it his all regardless of ability, travels the country, and takes fights at short notice, correct me if I'm wrong but that's what Terry does. So this label that people don't seem to like is puzzling me because has someone involved in the sport I see them has one of the most important people in the game who keeps it going and have the upmost respect for them and there courage and how most look after themselves. i need to know Why is it so infuriating to some or why so much dislike for the label of a journeyman ? Plus I think we've lost track of the fact that the original post was why a so called champion can have 3 or 4 voluntary defences rather than face a mandatory not who comes under the journeyman bracket. Like I said Terry always gives it his all and I hope he wins whatever you want to or don't want to label him has. I'm actually taking one of Jons lads on the road this weekend and for me it's a honour to work there corner and watch them at work, doing there little bits of fooling, kidding and frustrating these up and coming kids, this sport would be lost without journeymen, don't have so much dislike for the term, after all there wouldn't be much business with out them, they help make the future champs

[mickey1975]

What would you class Tony Booth as? He sometimes boxed very much like the typical Journeyman(Razak, Buckley, Laight etc) and just went through the motions but when the mood took him, he would knock the prospect clean out! He also had more wins than any of the active British boxers.

[curtis wood]

i think its because people who dont really understand boxing seem to think journyman means not very good and nobody wants to be known as not very good, especially if they are not bad fighters at all

[Boxingcutsman]

I think he was a world class fighter mate who was desperately unlucky not to become a world champion and inducted to the hall of fame
Does it really matter what bracket I would put him in mate, the original point is being missed. It's pis*#ng me off has to what the big deal is with a F*#king label
Yes I understand everyone else's point Curtis, but I think the original point is being missed mate. And bottom line is if you don't like the label then don't take fights at short notice on away shows against former amateur stars for money when you know your not gonna get the decision 9/10 and wait patiently for home shows and sell tickets then you won't be classed has a journeyman, and any trainer or manager who takes there cut of the money off there fighter when they've been on the road but don't like the term "journeyman" shame on you. End of post from me has the original point is being missed.

[jonp]

Don't swear dean it makes you sound f;&&ing ridiculous lol and I don't mind any labels but terry hates the fact he fights hard beats good fighters but gets a label he sees as derogatory.

[Boxingcutsman]

that's understandable Jon, but you know that I'm not using it or would ever mean it derogatory mate, haha and I always swear when I get frustrated haha

[The Law]

Don't swear dean it makes you sound f;&&ing ridiculous lol and I don't mind any labels but terry hates the fact he fights hard beats good fighters but gets a label he sees as derogatory.

I would class big Dean as a journeyman trainer .....

[mcato]

A better fight would be a rematch at 11stone 6 pounds and defend English title after

Liam i'm sure you can get back down to 11 stone. Come on give Nando's a break.. and lets get in on! lol

[The Law]

On a serious note, the 'journeyman' label can be rather demoralising for fighters with ambition, especially those who have been at the receiving end of questionable decisions.

However, I'm sure Dean meant well. He is as genuine as they come.

[canonball1234]

A better fight would be a rematch at 11stone 6 pounds and defend English title after

Liam i'm sure you can get back down to 11 stone. Come on give Nando's a break.. and lets get in on! lol

Me at 11stone my last fight with Erick you could have blew me over Eddie Hearn offerd fight with 10days notice and 11 stones al happily come to 11,6 were am strong

[magnus]

So, who is the mandatory for Ochieng? Al-Harbi?

There's no point in just throwing names like Selkirk and O'Meara about though, as promotional ties mean those fights are hugely unlikely to happen as voluntary defences. That's a shame, but that's the reality I'm afraid..

[mcato]

So, who is the mandatory for Ochieng? Al-Harbi?

There's no point in just throwing names like Selkirk and O'Meara about though, as promotional ties mean those fights are hugely unlikely to happen as voluntary defences. That's a shame, but that's the reality I'm afraid..

lets be honest will Hearns give Al-Harbi another chance after what happened with PFighter?

[mcato]

A better fight would be a rematch at 11stone 6 pounds and defend English title after

Liam i'm sure you can get back down to 11 stone. Come on give Nando's a break.. and lets get in on! lol

Me at 11stone my last fight with Erick you could have blew me over Eddie Hearn offerd fight with 10days notice and 11 stones al happily come to 11,6 were am strong

Liam when did Eddie offer you to fight Erick with 10days notice?

[magnus]

So, who is the mandatory for Ochieng? Al-Harbi?

There's no point in just throwing names like Selkirk and O'Meara about though, as promotional ties mean those fights are hugely unlikely to happen as voluntary defences. That's a shame, but that's the reality I'm afraid..

lets be honest will Hearns give Al-Harbi another chance after what happened with PFighter?

Probably not. I suspect if he beats Carruthers he'll vacate and either fight Rose or fight for Rose's vacated title. Which will no doubt be against someone like Carslaw, rather than Liam Smith for example.

Typing that was slightly depressing.

[maley1984]

So, who is the mandatory for Ochieng? Al-Harbi?

There's no point in just throwing names like Selkirk and O'Meara about though, as promotional ties mean those fights are hugely unlikely to happen as voluntary defences. That's a shame, but that's the reality I'm afraid..

Yes al harbi is mandatory it is at purse bids now due march 13th and it was at purse bids at lease once b4 ( xmas time but nasser was then offered pf)

The point of the thread was like the boxingcutsmen said how many volentarys can a champ have b4 he faces a mandatory can't believe the board hav let it get this far. (This is the 4th)

[magnus]

So, who is the mandatory for Ochieng? Al-Harbi?

There's no point in just throwing names like Selkirk and O'Meara about though, as promotional ties mean those fights are hugely unlikely to happen as voluntary defences. That's a shame, but that's the reality I'm afraid..

Yes al harbi is mandatory it is at purse bids now due march 13th and it was at purse bids at lease once b4 ( xmas time but nasser was then offered pf)

The point of the thread was like the boxingcutsmen said how many volentarys can a champ have b4 he faces a mandatory can't believe the board hav let it get this far. (This is the 4th)

So what happened with the previous purse bids? Did Nasser's people drop out because of being offered PF?

[maley1984]

So, who is the mandatory for Ochieng? Al-Harbi?

There's no point in just throwing names like Selkirk and O'Meara about though, as promotional ties mean those fights are hugely unlikely to happen as voluntary defences. That's a shame, but that's the reality I'm afraid..

Yes al harbi is mandatory it is at purse bids now due march 13th and it was at purse bids at lease once b4 ( xmas time but nasser was then offered pf)

The point of the thread was like the boxingcutsmen said how many volentarys can a champ have b4 he faces a mandatory can't believe the board hav let it get this far. (This is the 4th)

So what happened with the previous purse bids? Did Nasser's people drop out because of being offered PF?

I'm not sure to be honest I just know the board sent it out twice I don't think it will happen either if ochieng wins he will vacate

[Boxingcutsman]

Just had a very good 30 minutes plus debate with Jonp, what was said to me is a good valid point that I never really thought about. Jon said that a "journeyman" to him is based on attitude, there attitude is that they come for there money and don't really try has they want to fight next week, where has Terry comes and gives it his all which I originally stated is true, so in that respect Terry is not a ordinary Journeyman who comes just for the money, but my opinion still stands that unfortunately because he takes fights at short notice on the road it puts him in that category, but I would just like to clarify that I don't see journeymen has losers or think little of them, there very important to our sport and i personally think terry is a good fighter and would not come into that category if he did not take short notice fights and was given longer notice for fights, but then I suppose that what Jon regards Terry has, so do the big promoters a "DANGERMAN" which is true, and that's why he gets late calls, either way like I said on every other post, I know Terry and he's a great lad, I hope he gets what he deserves and gets the win

[Boxingcutsman]

Don't swear dean it makes you sound f;&&ing ridiculous lol and I don't mind any labels but terry hates the fact he fights hard beats good fighters but gets a label he sees as derogatory.

I would class big Dean as a journeyman trainer .....

That's good with me Altaf hahaha ;)

[mcato]

Just had a very good 30 minutes plus debate with Jonp, what was said to me is a good valid point that I never really thought about. Jon said that a "journeyman" to him is based on attitude, there attitude is that they come for there money and don't really try has they want to fight next week, where has Terry comes and gives it his all which I originally stated is true, so in that respect Terry is not a ordinary Journeyman who comes just for the money, but my opinion still stands that unfortunately because he takes fights at short notice on the road it puts him in that category, but I would just like to clarify that I don't see journeymen has losers or think little of them, there very important to our sport and i personally think terry is a good fighter and would not come into that category if he did not take short notice fights and was given longer notice for fights, but then I suppose that what Jon regards Terry has, so do the big promoters a "DANGERMAN" which is true, and that's why he gets late calls, either way like I said on every other post, I know Terry and he's a great lad, I hope he gets what he deserves and gets the win

Well I hope he doesn't win this fight but I hope he wins the fight after next because he is a good guy and a warrior and he doesn't turn up to put fighters through their paces he goes out to win.

[jonp]

Yeh was a good debate wed have some fun o the road usualy the boxers are fast asleep on the JOURNEY home lol