BoxRec

IRLangmaid25 wrote:

daviddee wrote:He's not 5ft 6???

He is listed as being about 5ft8. Personally I think the guy is pretty special. He has got handspeed, good power and footwork and he can cut the ring down. He is not a KO artist but he is a good finisher when he has got his opponent in trouble see the Litzau and DiMarco fights. There are times where he does come over as a bit of a muppet and I reckon he come unstuck against some like Frankie Gavin who I think is a more complete fighter than he is.

Gavin?? Are you saying Broner isn't even world class?

Tomasino wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote:

daviddee wrote:He's not 5ft 6???

He is listed as being about 5ft8. Personally I think the guy is pretty special. He has got handspeed, good power and footwork and he can cut the ring down. He is not a KO artist but he is a good finisher when he has got his opponent in trouble see the Litzau and DiMarco fights. There are times where he does come over as a bit of a muppet and I reckon he come unstuck against some like Frankie Gavin who I think is a more complete fighter than he is.

Gavin?? Are you saying Broner isn't even world class?

Sometimes I see things on here and am lost for words.

Frankie Gavin could beat Broner eh

You've got to love this forum for some of the sh@t you read...........

Quixall wrote:Frankie Gavin could beat Broner eh

You've got to love this forum for some of the sh@t you read...........

Definitely gets a WTF from me.

Frankie has all the boxing ability IMHO, far more naturally gifted skill wise than Broner, and I've a feeling he might give me a furious reply to this, but unless he transformed himself physically, I think Broner would be too much for him. At the next level up those fighters have incredible conditioning on top of skills and dedication - and I just feel like to beat the very elite fighters Frankie would have to transform his body. He says he can't make 140 but he didn't look to have the sort of power at 147 that could stop Broner in his tracks even though he has the superior skillset IMHO.

I think Broner is a beatable fighter and that Frankie is one of the most gifted fighters out there, but at the very top level you've got to be an absolute athlete around those weights and for whatever reason Frankie isn't there yet.

I know Macklin lost at the weekend, but he was fighting a ridiculously special fighter, but a few years ago you'd never have thought Macklin could look that in shape for a fight. If he'd have been at that level of conditioning against Sturm I think Macklin wins that fight. Unfortunately he got in career best shape for a fight against a monster that he couldn't beat in a million years.

He'll be the next boxing superstar. Three world titles at three weights age just 23 is far more relevant than how many kids he has. The man is a special talent. Enjoy the ride n quit hating.

TheGoods wrote:He'll be the next boxing superstar. Three world titles at three weights age just 23 is far more relevant than how many kids he has. The man is a special talent. Enjoy the ride n quit hating.

Beating Malignaggi - a guy who was barely top 10 at 147 - for a strap is about as much of a paper title achievement as you get. The fact that it went to an SD tells you all you need to know about how legit Broner is as a 147 fighter - fringe world class in reality.

TheGoods wrote:He'll be the next boxing superstar. Three world titles at three weights age just 23 is far more relevant than how many kids he has. The man is a special talent. Enjoy the ride n quit hating.

Koki Kameda has been a 3-weight world champion since he was 24, titles at multiple weights genuine means sod all, it's what you do when you have them that mattes.

lets face it , they are not genuine world titles in the real sense of the word. gavin is still a work in progress, and as he earns more money should be able to get the best out of his body , but he has a great boxing brain and has the talent and skill. why is it so outrageous to suggest that gavin would beat broner ? wouldnt gavin take rees out in 4 or 5 rounds? wouldnt gavin easily outbox malignaggi? im quite sure that with the best conditioning and training gavin would beat khan...another paper titleholder, who has regressed since he was 23. at least gavin is going in the right direction.

Frankie Gavin is improving and I think he can beat Broner. He'll need to ne more Spartan as others have suggested. But he has the potential to beat Broner.

goldenears wrote:Frankie has all the boxing ability IMHO, far more naturally gifted skill wise than Broner, and I've a feeling he might give me a furious reply to this, but unless he transformed himself physically, I think Broner would be too much for him. At the next level up those fighters have incredible conditioning on top of skills and dedication - and I just feel like to beat the very elite fighters Frankie would have to transform his body. He says he can't make 140 but he didn't look to have the sort of power at 147 that could stop Broner in his tracks even though he has the superior skillset IMHO.

I think Broner is a beatable fighter and that Frankie is one of the most gifted fighters out there, but at the very top level you've got to be an absolute athlete around those weights and for whatever reason Frankie isn't there yet.

I know Macklin lost at the weekend, but he was fighting a ridiculously special fighter, but a few years ago you'd never have thought Macklin could look that in shape for a fight. If he'd have been at that level of conditioning against Sturm I think Macklin wins that fight. Unfortunately he got in career best shape for a fight against a monster that he couldn't beat in a million years.

I wouldn't say that Gavin is a more naturally gifted fighter than Broner, not by any stretch. You have to look at the levels they have both been fighting at and Gavin is way off the level of Broner at this moment in time. How many Broner fights have you seen ? Any fighter is beatable, even Mayweather at a stretch, but Broner has never looked remotely in trouble against any fighter he has fought, though most of his best wins have come against durable rather than gifted fighters. Broner's natural division is 140lbs, but he went up two divisions to fight Paulie and the only thing he didn't do was put in more work rate and punch output. If he had upped his work rate by 25% he would have been miles ahead of Paulie. People expected a stoppage and were critical because it didn't happen, but Paulie is durable and was stopped on his feet by Hatton and Khan. Boner can still go up a few gears, he hasn't really been tested. The stance needs to alter, the defence needs to alter dependant upon being on the defensive or offensive, but the main thing that needs to change is his work rate.

dookus wrote:

TheGoods wrote:He'll be the next boxing superstar. Three world titles at three weights age just 23 is far more relevant than how many kids he has. The man is a special talent. Enjoy the ride n quit hating.

Beating Malignaggi - a guy who was barely top 10 at 147 - for a strap is about as much of a paper title achievement as you get. The fact that it went to an SD tells you all you need to know about how legit Broner is as a 147 fighter - fringe world class in reality.

Hatton and Khan recieved decent qudos when they beat Paulie. Paulie isn't and never has been an elite fighter. His best wins were against U'Dou and Diaz and he has lost most of his big fights, so i agree that he is somewhat over-rated, particularly at 147lbs. However, it was a great introductory fight for Broner at 147lbs, up against an experienced, tricky blown up 140lbs fighter who has never had a punch, with a world title to boot. It was an SD because Broner didn't put in enough work rate and punch volume, not because he couldn't get to Paulie or didn't know how to work him out. Look at the precentage stats, Broner was way ahead for accuracy of shots landed agaisnt what Paulie did. If Broner had upped his work rate, Paulie would have been out of sight and it would have been a comfortable UD for Broner. He clowns around too much at the minute and he needs to change that attitude. Fringe world class ?? Again, how many Broner fights have you seen ? Broner is a natural 140lbs at the minute and may come down a weight, but he is a world class fighter. The only thing people don't know is whether he is an elite fighter, but he is certainly on his way.

jimcook wrote:lets face it , they are not genuine world titles in the real sense of the word. gavin is still a work in progress, and as he earns more money should be able to get the best out of his body , but he has a great boxing brain and has the talent and skill. why is it so outrageous to suggest that gavin would beat broner ? wouldnt gavin take rees out in 4 or 5 rounds? wouldnt gavin easily outbox malignaggi? im quite sure that with the best conditioning and training gavin would beat khan...another paper titleholder, who has regressed since he was 23. at least gavin is going in the right direction.

Everyone is a paper champion these days. You have four main belts, WBA, WBC, WBO & IBF and then you have semi weight divisions splitting the main weight divisions, so by definition it's going to be easier to win a version of any world title.

Quixall wrote:

dookus wrote:

TheGoods wrote:He'll be the next boxing superstar. Three world titles at three weights age just 23 is far more relevant than how many kids he has. The man is a special talent. Enjoy the ride n quit hating.

Beating Malignaggi - a guy who was barely top 10 at 147 - for a strap is about as much of a paper title achievement as you get. The fact that it went to an SD tells you all you need to know about how legit Broner is as a 147 fighter - fringe world class in reality.

Hatton and Khan recieved decent qudos when they beat Paulie. Paulie isn't and never has been an elite fighter. His best wins were against U'Dou and Diaz and he has lost most of his big fights, so i agree that he is somewhat over-rated, particularly at 147lbs. However, it was a great introductory fight for Broner at 147lbs, up against an experienced, tricky blown up 140lbs fighter who has never had a punch, with a world title to boot. It was an SD because Broner didn't put in enough work rate and punch volume, not because he couldn't get to Paulie or didn't know how to work him out. Look at the precentage stats, Broner was way ahead for accuracy of shots landed agaisnt what Paulie did. If Broner had upped his work rate, Paulie would have been out of sight and it would have been a comfortable UD for Broner. He clowns around too much at the minute and he needs to change that attitude. Fringe world class ?? Again, how many Broner fights have you seen ? Broner is a natural 140lbs at the minute and may come down a weight, but he is a world class fighter. The only thing people don't know is whether he is an elite fighter, but he is certainly on his way.

I said he was fringe world class at 147; he is of course world class at 135. Until he beats someone better at welterweight, that will remain the case.

As for "if Broner had upped his workrate" - well he couldn't because he was breathing out of his arse after 9 rounds! You could SEE him taking huge gulps of air in the corner between rounds. If he was capable of throwing and landing more on Malignaggi, he would have done.

quixall, arent you a bit suspicious about why a guy whos 23 cant match the punch output of any of his opponents, especially a 34 year old in his last fight. another thing is that 23 means nothing. tyson was over the hill at 24, hamed peaked early etc. 23 can be young for some fighters , but theres been plenty who were already going downhill at that age.

Dookus,

No i disagree totally. Broner's problem is that he insists on using the philly shell defence when on the defensive and offensive. If someone like paulie throws two to three punch combinations at him, then Broner is reduced to one punch pot shots, even if most of Paulie's shots were being blocked. As the fight wore on Broner changed the shoulder role defence to a hands high stance when on the offensive which gives him more options. This allowed him to put together more combination punches, something which were not there at all untill the 6th or 7th round. This was pointed out in the De Leon fight by Roy Jones. Roger Mayweather has also said that you have to be more adaptable if you want to use the shoulder role when on the offensive, otherwise it cuts down your options and ability to counter properly. This is why Broner looks "lazy" and slightly one dimensional at times. Like i said, Hatton and Khan recieved their dues and compliments for beating Paulie, yet Broner who comes up two weights to fight Paulie doesn't get the same qudos. He is a world level fighter full stop. The only question he has to answer is whethetr he can step up and face the named fighters in either the 140lbs or 147lbs divisions.

jimcook wrote:quixall, arent you a bit suspicious about why a guy whos 23 cant match the punch output of any of his opponents, especially a 34 year old in his last fight. another thing is that 23 means nothing. tyson was over the hill at 24, hamed peaked early etc. 23 can be young for some fighters , but theres been plenty who were already going downhill at that age.

I'm not suspicious at all Jimcock. I think if the truth be known, Broner can go up a few gears yet. He doesn't match the output of his opponents because in most cases he relies upon stoppages. Now he has moved up to 147lbs, he may have to alter his style accordingly and up his work rate if the power is reduced at the 147lbs division. If you look at my reply to Dookus, i explain why i think that Broner's work rate is lower than his opponents. It is certainly something that needs change and development. I think there is a negative vibe towards Broner, where people are willing him to fukk up and lose or get beaten up. His personality divides people and for some it blinds them to the positive aspects of Adrien Broner. Not accusing you of this, but it's out there. Some fighters can mature early of that there is no doubt, but Broner hasn't been pitched in against the best as yet, so i think there is more to come from him.

Awful workrate, he's either lazy or has poor stamina.

Horse wrote:Awful workrate, he's either lazy or has poor stamina.

It's never one or the other, there are multiple reasons for it. The main ones are as i have suggested above, plus the fact that no-one has taken him out of his comfort zone in any fight i have seen him in, so to a degree your suggestion of laziness could be a factor. I personally think it's his insistence on playing everything behind a shoulder role that is not adaptable enough against fighters who are quick hitters like Paulie. It works against come forward guys like Rees, but Broner walked down Paulie most of the night and it's then that his insistence on using the shoulder role, even on the offensive, which becomes a problem and makes his output dim and look too one dimensional.

Quixall wrote:It's never one or the other, there are multiple reasons for it. The main ones are as i have suggested above, plus the fact that no-one has taken him out of his comfort zone in any fight i have seen him in, so to a degree your suggestion of laziness could be a factor. I personally think it's his insistence on playing everything behind a shoulder role that is not adaptable enough against fighters who are quick hitters like Paulie. It works against come forward guys like Rees, but Broner walked down Paulie most of the night and it's then that his insistence on using the shoulder role, even on the offensive, which becomes a problem and makes his output dim and look too one dimensional.

He's already lost three times according to a lot of people. He has been pushed and he hasn't upped his workrate even though it could have easily lost him the fight.

Broner is not in a position to last at the top, because he isn't at the top.

Horse wrote:

Quixall wrote:It's never one or the other, there are multiple reasons for it. The main ones are as i have suggested above, plus the fact that no-one has taken him out of his comfort zone in any fight i have seen him in, so to a degree your suggestion of laziness could be a factor. I personally think it's his insistence on playing everything behind a shoulder role that is not adaptable enough against fighters who are quick hitters like Paulie. It works against come forward guys like Rees, but Broner walked down Paulie most of the night and it's then that his insistence on using the shoulder role, even on the offensive, which becomes a problem and makes his output dim and look too one dimensional.

He's already lost three times according to a lot of people. He has been pushed and he hasn't upped his workrate even though it could have easily lost him the fight.

Broner is not in a position to last at the top, because he isn't at the top.

The only fights that were close were the Ponce De Leon and Quintero fights and again, that was because of a lack of work rate and the shoulder role issue. Not sure where a third one would come from as he beat Paulie by four or five rounds. It's amazing that people still can't see when a shot is blocked or not. Paulie's shots were being blocked and Broner's were way more accurate, but his lack of punch volume makes it look a closer fight than it actually is. He hasn't been pushed at all. I have seen around 15 Broner fights and he hasn't been pushed in any one of them. If a fight was close it was down to the work rate, shoulder role issues that i have raised, not because Broner got out thought or out skilled. That just has't happenned to date. We simply don't know if Broner will last or not and that applies to any fighter. He is a world class fighter and alphabelt titles or semi weight division titles apart, plus the Al Haymon connections, he has still done well for his age. He is on the way to the top and time will tell what happens in that respect.

Quixall wrote:The only fights that were close were the Ponce De Leon and Quintero fights and again, that was because of a lack of work rate and the shoulder role issue. Not sure where a third one would come from as he beat Paulie by four or five rounds.

"Not sure where..." Pull the other one, Broner was awful against Paulie and was lucky to get the decison. The guy is simply not very good.

Quixall wrote:It's amazing that people still can't see when a shot is blocked or not. Paulie's shots were being blocked and Broner's were way more accurate, but his lack of punch volume makes it look a closer ffight than it actually is. He hasn't been pushed at all. I have seen around 15 Broner fights and he hasn't been pushed in any one of them. If a fight was close it was down to the work rate, shoulder role issues that i have raised, not because Broner got out thought or out skilled. That just has't happenned to date. We simply don't know if Broner will last or not and that applies to any fighter. He is a world class fighter and alphabelt titles or semi weight division titles apart, plus teh Al Haymon connections, he has still down well for his age. He is on teh way to the top and time will tell what happens in that respect.

Broner is crap, if you've got to promote this dud, then do it on the Current Scene.

He's been exposed, the gig is up, he is ordinary.

.

Lucky to get the decision ? I wonder what fight you were watching. Most people who can score a fight had Broner ahead by at least three rounds minimum. Like i say, it doesn't count if can't hit your opponent and Paulie had minimal success. Just look at the percentage figures and you can see how wide of the mark Paulie was and how accurate Broner was..............

Broner is crap is he ? Seems like you haven't seen or know a great deal about Adrien Broner to me. He came up two weight divisions and took on a guy who even Hatton in his pomp couldn't knock out cleanly and yet broner is crap in your eyes. A three weight, three time champion at 23 years of age and he is dismisses as crap and ordinary...........

It's a boxing forum and i answered a thread about Adrien Broner, have i committed a crime ? Thought not. I don't need to promote a fighter, i just pass comment on what i have seen and i have seen quite a lot of Adrien Broner. I may be wrong, but i won't lose any sleep over it, however i fully expect Broner to go a little further than you perhaps expect.

Boy, your some judge of a fighter, but each to their own.

I've seen a bunch of his fights and I don't rate him.