JimJim2009 wrote:I've given Billy Nelson some stick on here but must come to his defence, regarding the post immediately above.
I've often wondered when Billy took over the training of Ricky and I just googled it to find out - it was after Ricky's second defeat, against Carl Johanneson. He was 15-2 at that point in his career. I thought his effort against Carl that night in Leeds was appalling. To me, I thought he hadn't got the slightest intention of trying to win the fight, and the lack of ambition was really apparent to me.
So at that point he's 15-2, with two landslide points losses against the two decent opponents he'd fought. He barely won a round in either fight.
He then hooked up with Billy Nelson. He won 8 in a row, and picked up the Commonwealth title, and after a couple more wins he upset Roman Martinez for the WBO title. The rest is history.
I've had my criticisms of Ricky and have swapped insults with Billy but the bare facts speak for themselves. The Ricky Burns who fought Alex Arthur and Carl Johanneson, and the Ricky Burns since those losses, these are two totally different fighters. Something has changed. Presumably, Ricky did his absolute best against Arthur and Johanneson (even though he lost both fights by wide margins), and had a trainer at that point in time.
The only difference is Billy Nelson. You have to give credit where it is due and in terms of a trainer taking over a fighter and making great improvements, the evidence is there for all to see.
I disagree with this, the main difference between a losing Burns and a winning Burns was allegedly's patient promoting and rebuilding strategy.
Burns hasn't changed much as a boxer under Nelson. Still upright with little movement on the backfoot and his best punch is still his jab.
Allegedly was the best thing for Burns, that's even more apparent after his last 2 fights, where he has struggled badly.
I disagree with this, the main difference between a losing Burns and a winning Burns was allegedly's patient promoting and rebuilding strategy.
Burns hasn't changed much as a boxer under Nelson. Still upright with little movement on the backfoot and his best punch is still his jab.
Allegedly was the best thing for Burns, that's even more apparent after his last 2 fights, where he has struggled badly.[/quote]
WTF ?!?!?
So the main difference between the fighter who got well beaten at domestic level, but went on to beat Roman Martinez and a series of world title level opponents is the promoter and timing ??!!
Love how people change their minds regarding promotors, Allegedly was patient with Ricky and got him in a great position to fight for his world title and soon as things got tough Ricky and his camp crapped on him. I dont care about the whole promoting side of it but there is no loyalty shown as demonstrated by the Smith Brothers. If someone is doing a good job for you then why would you do that? Buisness? Just because its a buisness does not mean you can act with so little class. It has been proving by statements by Vasquez that it was not through his promotors fault:) I like Ricky but hes done things all wrong and Fastcar as through him in there with 2 opponents who in fairness would not have happened had he been loyal and is very poor matchmaking as end of day Ricky needs to hold them titles and get in a position for a Unification fight and make some proper money:) Maybe its just me but I really dont have faith in matchroom and dont like what there all about regardng underhand tactics with the signings:)
Could not agree more Burns should of stayed with 'allegedly' potentially could of had two belts had he stayed. If the roles were reversed and 'allegedly' fed us Gonzales and Beltran we'd all be giving him stick.
JimJim2009 wrote:I disagree with this, the main difference between a losing Burns and a winning Burns was allegedly's patient promoting and rebuilding strategy.
Burns hasn't changed much as a boxer under Nelson. Still upright with little movement on the backfoot and his best punch is still his jab.
Allegedly was the best thing for Burns, that's even more apparent after his last 2 fights, where he has struggled badly.
WTF ?!?!?
So the main difference between the fighter who got well beaten at domestic level, but went on to beat Roman Martinez and a series of world title level opponents is the promoter and timing ??!![/quote]
Yes, Burns was still relatively young against Arthur and Carl Johansson, and was expected to lose both fights. He matured through time and his fitness is second to none, but yes main difference was Allegedly's rebuilding and good timing to fight an average Champion in Martinez at home.
No other promoter in the world would have got Burns that opportunity as no one else would have put up the money for the fight.
WayoftheCass wrote:I still can't get my head round peoples reaction to the Gonzalez fight. Yeah he was being schooled but still broke the guys heart. End of. A two weight world champion who has made 7 successful defences and is 8-0-1 (3) in world title fights. Anyone questioning if he's world class is out of their mind! Even if he loses to Crawford he's still been a fantastic champion.
It's not the end of at all.
How a boxer gets to a win says as much or more about them than the result itself does. Burns was badly out boxed and hurt multiple times by a guy with no notable wins and a very padded record, so I think the critical reaction to his performance was fair.
billy nelson wrote:Daviedee you simply are a ledgend in your own mind, you make boxing sound so so easy.
Were as in fact you aint got a clue about domestic level boxing let alone world level boxing, now just let the people who know what there doing get on with there job shut your big mouth and maybe just maybe you might learn something.
Lets be perfectly blunt here Ricky is way beyond any other Scottish fighter at present and he simply cant win with the likes of you, when he got beat at domestic level twice against good champions people said oh that's his level he wont go any further, now hes improved loads and became a two weight world champion people knock a performance were he got his jaw broken and fought on for 10 rounds, bravery beyond the call of duty but people are so effing blinded they'd rather criticise him, do believe be when I say Beltran would have been beaten comfortable had the injury not happened, Ricky was way to fast for him
Are you a complete mongol!! Go read back what I put. I'm the big mouth pot kettle and black. Ricky can't win with me? I'm a fan you idiot. Your a expert Billy let's be clear here, I have watched almost all of Ricky's fights since his loses to Carl and Alex. I also said to anyone that would listen after the Alex fight that Ricky would be a World Champion. I make boxing sound so easy? Ricky has those skills in his locker. I have watched his fights from recent to older and do you not agree when he throws his punches like I have said he gets more reward? You just need to watch the Martinez fight to see that. He has fought different in his last 2 fights maybe it just the quality of opponent is so high and Ricky can't fight his fight. As I keep telling you but it doesn't seem to get through to your thick head. I'm a fan of Ricky's!!! I still back the fact that he's world class. I argue saying I feel he could of beat broner and that he could beat Khan. But I will say one thing lucky I have met Ricky and know that he's such a nice guy and deserves everything because with the way you act you can see why he loses fans.
No doubt I will get another post from you saying how i know nothing about boxing and you know so much more and stop doubting Ricky. If your going to have a go Billy please read my posts properly and not make out I'm against Ricky. I'm a boxing fan with honest opinions that I don't change every 2 minutes. I also don't get caught up in all the hype I say my opinion whether right or wrong.
But Davie the simple fact is you don't know much about boxing! So I take no notice of your opinions whatsoever
billy nelson wrote:Daviedee you simply are a ledgend in your own mind, you make boxing sound so so easy.
Were as in fact you aint got a clue about domestic level boxing let alone world level boxing, now just let the people who know what there doing get on with there job shut your big mouth and maybe just maybe you might learn something.
Lets be perfectly blunt here Ricky is way beyond any other Scottish fighter at present and he simply cant win with the likes of you, when he got beat at domestic level twice against good champions people said oh that's his level he wont go any further, now hes improved loads and became a two weight world champion people knock a performance were he got his jaw broken and fought on for 10 rounds, bravery beyond the call of duty but people are so effing blinded they'd rather criticise him, do believe be when I say Beltran would have been beaten comfortable had the injury not happened, Ricky was way to fast for him
Are you a complete mongol!! Go read back what I put. I'm the big mouth pot kettle and black. Ricky can't win with me? I'm a fan you idiot. Your a expert Billy let's be clear here, I have watched almost all of Ricky's fights since his loses to Carl and Alex. I also said to anyone that would listen after the Alex fight that Ricky would be a World Champion. I make boxing sound so easy? Ricky has those skills in his locker. I have watched his fights from recent to older and do you not agree when he throws his punches like I have said he gets more reward? You just need to watch the Martinez fight to see that. He has fought different in his last 2 fights maybe it just the quality of opponent is so high and Ricky can't fight his fight. As I keep telling you but it doesn't seem to get through to your thick head. I'm a fan of Ricky's!!! I still back the fact that he's world class. I argue saying I feel he could of beat broner and that he could beat Khan. But I will say one thing lucky I have met Ricky and know that he's such a nice guy and deserves everything because with the way you act you can see why he loses fans.
No doubt I will get another post from you saying how i know nothing about boxing and you know so much more and stop doubting Ricky. If your going to have a go Billy please read my posts properly and not make out I'm against Ricky. I'm a boxing fan with honest opinions that I don't change every 2 minutes. I also don't get caught up in all the hype I say my opinion whether right or wrong.
But Davie the simple fact is you don't know much about boxing! So I take no notice of your opinions whatsoever
My opinion isn't for you Billy so I couldn't really give a monkeys what you think. The one thing I do is watch as much boxing as I can and I have done from a young age. I watch every show on Sky, Every show on allegedly, Chanel 5 and buy all PPV fights.. I also watch all the streamed fights as well. So even if it upsets little Billy Nelson I couldn't care I'm a fan that pays more than enough to comment
billy nelson wrote:Daviedee you simply are a ledgend in your own mind, you make boxing sound so so easy.
Were as in fact you aint got a clue about domestic level boxing let alone world level boxing, now just let the people who know what there doing get on with there job shut your big mouth and maybe just maybe you might learn something.
Lets be perfectly blunt here Ricky is way beyond any other Scottish fighter at present and he simply cant win with the likes of you, when he got beat at domestic level twice against good champions people said oh that's his level he wont go any further, now hes improved loads and became a two weight world champion people knock a performance were he got his jaw broken and fought on for 10 rounds, bravery beyond the call of duty but people are so effing blinded they'd rather criticise him, do believe be when I say Beltran would have been beaten comfortable had the injury not happened, Ricky was way to fast for him
To be fair though Billy, where's the proof that the jaw break happened in the second round? With all due respect obviously you and Ricky are going to say it happened that early in the fight because Ricky was losing from very early on. Beltran reckons it happened in the round *forgotten which round it was* when he knocked Ricky down.
That's a complete bullshit post lefty. Your calling both Billy and Ricky liars, which is uncalled for. Who cares what Beltran thinks? I'm sure Ricky knows better than anyone.
Have you ever had your jaw broken? Or just heard about it from a friend of a friend of a friend?
billy nelson wrote:Daviedee you simply are a ledgend in your own mind, you make boxing sound so so easy.
Were as in fact you aint got a clue about domestic level boxing let alone world level boxing, now just let the people who know what there doing get on with there job shut your big mouth and maybe just maybe you might learn something.
Lets be perfectly blunt here Ricky is way beyond any other Scottish fighter at present and he simply cant win with the likes of you, when he got beat at domestic level twice against good champions people said oh that's his level he wont go any further, now hes improved loads and became a two weight world champion people knock a performance were he got his jaw broken and fought on for 10 rounds, bravery beyond the call of duty but people are so effing blinded they'd rather criticise him, do believe be when I say Beltran would have been beaten comfortable had the injury not happened, Ricky was way to fast for him
To be fair though Billy, where's the proof that the jaw break happened in the second round? With all due respect obviously you and Ricky are going to say it happened that early in the fight because Ricky was losing from very early on. Beltran reckons it happened in the round *forgotten which round it was* when he knocked Ricky down.
That's a complete bullshit post lefty. Your calling both Billy and Ricky liars, which is uncalled for. Who cares what Beltran thinks? I'm sure Ricky knows better than anyone.
Have you ever had your jaw broken? Or just heard about it from a friend of a friend of a friend?
That's a complete bullshit post lefty. Your calling both Billy and Ricky liars, which is uncalled for. Who cares what Beltran thinks? I'm sure Ricky knows better than anyone.
Have you ever had your jaw broken? Or just heard about it from a friend of a friend of a friend? [/quote]
Sorry hard man.[/quote]
Say sorry to the real hard man, Ricky Burns. I've had too much to drink so maybe a bit harsh, I found your hard men of the Medway posts a bit gay, hence the last bit.
I do find you to be overly critical of fighters and get the impression you've never been in one yourself. I might be wrong
Tomasino wrote:That's a complete bullshit post lefty. Your calling both Billy and Ricky liars, which is uncalled for. Who cares what Beltran thinks? I'm sure Ricky knows better than anyone.
Have you ever had your jaw broken? Or just heard about it from a friend of a friend of a friend?
Sorry hard man.[/quote]
Say sorry to the real hard man, Ricky Burns. I've had too much to drink so maybe a bit harsh, I found your hard men of the Medway posts a bit gay, hence the last bit.
I do find you to be overly critical of fighters and get the impression you've never been in one yourself. I might be wrong [/quote]
I talked about it once in reference to something else someone else brought up.
Tomasino wrote:That's a complete bullshit post lefty. Your calling both Billy and Ricky liars, which is uncalled for. Who cares what Beltran thinks? I'm sure Ricky knows better than anyone.
Have you ever had your jaw broken? Or just heard about it from a friend of a friend of a friend?
Sorry hard man.
Say sorry to the real hard man, Ricky Burns. I've had too much to drink so maybe a bit harsh, I found your hard men of the Medway posts a bit gay, hence the last bit.
I do find you to be overly critical of fighters and get the impression you've never been in one yourself. I might be wrong [/quote]
I talked about it once in reference to something else someone else brought up.[/quote]
Ok but my point is your n no position to call Ricky burns a liar and make out Beltran knows when he broke his jaw.
To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later. Ricky was very brave and lots of boxers would have bailed, he deserves credit for that but his bravery does not require any embellishment and he did not deserve the decision - in a nice guy and brave fellow contest no doubt but not on the 12 rounds of boxing the judges were there to judge.
palooka wrote:To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later.
Isnt Beltran with Top Rank? If anything it's them trying to fornicate Beltran out of the rematch isnt it?
palooka wrote:To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later.
Isnt Beltran with Top Rank? If anything it's them trying to eff Beltran out of the rematch isnt it?
I haven't the foggiest who Beltran is signed to; I thought he won the bout and was entertaining; if his own group are trying to do him over then that's plain crap and he ought to be able to walk and get a team behind him that'd get something good for him. For me though Crawford is very slick and would be very hard to beat I'd prefer to watch Beltran. Boxing politics is a vipers nest though and many decent fighters get jobbed over and again.
palooka wrote:To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later.
Isnt Beltran with Top Rank? If anything it's them trying to eff Beltran out of the rematch isnt it?
I haven't the foggiest who Beltran is signed to; I thought he won the bout and was entertaining; if his own group are trying to do him over then that's plain crap and he ought to be able to walk and get a team behind him that'd get something good for him. For me though Crawford is very slick and would be very hard to beat I'd prefer to watch Beltran. Boxing politics is a vipers nest though and many decent fighters get jobbed over and again.
Only reason I mention is that Beltran obviously deserves a rematch and I think everybody this side of the pond was trying to make it happen (Eddie, Burns, Billy) but then I am sure I read somewhere that Top Rank actually pushed for Crawford to be called mandatory for Burns' next fight.
palooka wrote:To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later. Ricky was very brave and lots of boxers would have bailed, he deserves credit for that but his bravery does not require any embellishment and he did not deserve the decision - in a nice guy and brave fellow contest no doubt but not on the 12 rounds of boxing the judges were there to judge.
I agree he got beat and the decision was very poor, I just don't think he's a liar is what I am saying.
palooka wrote:To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later. Ricky was very brave and lots of boxers would have bailed, he deserves credit for that but his bravery does not require any embellishment and he did not deserve the decision - in a nice guy and brave fellow contest no doubt but not on the 12 rounds of boxing the judges were there to judge.
I agree he got beat and the decision was very poor, I just don't think he's a liar is what I am saying.
No offense Tom but do you believe everything fighters say? I never said that Ricky isnt tough or that his jaw wasnt broken. I just question when it happened that's all. It looks better for Ricky if it happened in the second vs later in the fight because then that excuses Ricky's performance from very early on where he was getting man handled by Beltran.
[quote="palooka"]To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later. Ricky was very brave and lots of boxers would have bailed, he deserves credit for that but his bravery does not require any embellishment and he did not deserve the decision - in a nice guy and brave fellow contest no doubt but not on the 12 rounds of boxing the judges were there to judge.[/quote Ricky Burns told me in the corner his jaw was in agony at the end of round two,so no he doesnt need to build himself up as some sort of hero,what hes achieved people can only dream of and im positive we will keep going on to better things
palooka wrote:To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later. Ricky was very brave and lots of boxers would have bailed, he deserves credit for that but his bravery does not require any embellishment and he did not deserve the decision - in a nice guy and brave fellow contest no doubt but not on the 12 rounds of boxing the judges were there to judge.
What poo you coming out with Palooka? Ricky Burns told me in the corner his jaw was in agony at the end of round two,so no he doesnt need to build himself up as some sort of hero,what hes achieved people can only dream of and im positive we will keep going on to better things
I'm sorry if you think my opinion is poo Billy; you were there and we'll have to take your word on it. I'd have thought though that keeping a boxer safe was the most important thing to do, even over protecting their title belt. I don't want to offend you and did it cross your mind when he told you he was in agony to pull him from the bout and let him fight another day? Though things seem to have mended ok and he is to box again he could have been ruined by (10 more rounds?) of punishment on a broken jaw. Burns is a fighter through and through, he proved that getting off the floor and fighting back v Johansson and Martinez - you are the wiser head in the corner though and the one to look out for him, do you think you should have pulled him out and gone for an immediate rematch - the jaw would surely have healed more quickly with less punishment.
You're right that Ricky has achieved an awful lot and I hope he keeps on doing it - as a fan though I have to keep my common sense turned on and not disregard things that seem to be a little strange; boxing is a funny sport to follow and I'd get led up the garden path every day of the week if I believed everything everyone said.
Billy nelson 1st class ball bag! It's u that are turning people off burns with all the bs u talk. Would of beat beltran etc. Twat. Ricky should get a new trainer IMO his trainer is shit! No supprise he's got 1 fighter. Wanker!
Bandit wrote:Billy nelson 1st class ball bag! It's u that are turning people off burns with all the bs u talk. Would of beat beltran etc. Twat. Ricky should get a new trainer IMO his trainer is poo! No supprise he's got 1 fighter. Wanker!
palooka wrote:To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later. Ricky was very brave and lots of boxers would have bailed, he deserves credit for that but his bravery does not require any embellishment and he did not deserve the decision - in a nice guy and brave fellow contest no doubt but not on the 12 rounds of boxing the judges were there to judge.
I agree he got beat and the decision was very poor, I just don't think he's a liar is what I am saying.
No offense Tom but do you believe everything fighters say? I never said that Ricky isnt tough or that his jaw wasnt broken. I just question when it happened that's all. It looks better for Ricky if it happened in the second vs later in the fight because then that excuses Ricky's performance from very early on where he was getting man handled by Beltran.
All fighters? No, I don't. Ricky Burns, yes, I do. The guy is an absolute gentleman and a warrior. I know folk who have known him since he was a boy and never a bad word said about him. He's from the next town over from me. I realise I was offensive in my initial post and put it down to bevvy and the fact I had a night out in a part of the country that annoys me, so I apologise.
I do stand by my post saying your overly critical of fighters. Give it a bash yourself it's no easy. I had a few am fights and have a chronic neck injury that's been giving me jip for well over a decade. I got it in sparring.
palooka wrote:To be fair Tom, if I broke someone's jaw and then kept hitting him I'd know how he reacted before the break, which punch broke the jaw and the difference in his reactions after. Beltran has no reason to lie, in my eyes he won the fight and he ought to get an immediate rematch somewhere neutral or on his own ground. It suits both Ricky and Billys agenda (it builds a legend) to say the jaw was broken very early does add to the mystique; he may have had his jaw broken in the 2nd round but it is more likely that it was a fair bit later. Ricky was very brave and lots of boxers would have bailed, he deserves credit for that but his bravery does not require any embellishment and he did not deserve the decision - in a nice guy and brave fellow contest no doubt but not on the 12 rounds of boxing the judges were there to judge.
What poo you coming out with Palooka? Ricky Burns told me in the corner his jaw was in agony at the end of round two,so no he doesnt need to build himself up as some sort of hero,what hes achieved people can only dream of and im positive we will keep going on to better things
I'm sorry if you think my opinion is poo Billy; you were there and we'll have to take your word on it. I'd have thought though that keeping a boxer safe was the most important thing to do, even over protecting their title belt. I don't want to offend you and did it cross your mind when he told you he was in agony to pull him from the bout and let him fight another day? Though things seem to have mended ok and he is to box again he could have been ruined by (10 more rounds?) of punishment on a broken jaw. Burns is a fighter through and through, he proved that getting off the floor and fighting back v Johansson and Martinez - you are the wiser head in the corner though and the one to look out for him, do you think you should have pulled him out and gone for an immediate rematch - the jaw would surely have healed more quickly with less punishment.
You're right that Ricky has achieved an awful lot and I hope he keeps on doing it - as a fan though I have to keep my common sense turned on and not disregard things that seem to be a little strange; boxing is a funny sport to follow and I'd get led up the garden path every day of the week if I believed everything everyone said.
I agree I did think Billy should have pulled him out. You could see Ricky was really feeling it between rounds. When Billy got asked during the post fight interview wether he should have pulled him out, he smirked and said no way. I felt really bad for Ricky then, Billy should have his long term health in mind not just keeping that belt.
