Doncaster Legend

[lefty]

The Bartley Gorman 'massacre' thing may well be exaggerated in his book but the incident did happen. Danny Shenton was the guy Gorman was supposed to fight but Gorman was jumped and badly beaten - half killed apparently - before the scheduled fight could take place. Race week, '76 I think it was so most of the posters on here won't be able to remember it. I'm probably a bit older than the other Donny lads who post on here and I've got a brother a chunk older still who remembers all that lot.

By the way, race week is big in Doncaster but it's nothing like it was in the 70s, when it was massive. The whole town used to basically shut down for the week - all the factories, the pits, the plant works etc. Even the kids had the week off school back then, and the place was packed with all sorts of weird and wonderful characters. I know lads who used work on the doors back then. Apparently, it could get quite, well, 'lively' of a night back then...

Im not even from the place but this has sucked me in lol

[CiganoBoxer]

Palooka would be your man but from what I've read, it is true.

The St Leger is a huge week in the racing calendar, there's a lot of travellers & Irish in town that week. The week before the races I believe it's bloodstock week too.

Sorry, I don't know a deal about it; I read the book and spoke to Bob Gaskin; he drinks in the little Plough from time to time; he said it was very exaggerated; I think only Gorman and his people called it the St Leger Massacre! I imagine that there's still a fair bit of challenge fights that goes on around the Leger but someone who has seen a few of these fights said that Appleby Horse Fair is a place where the pecking order can be sorted. Doncaster has got a really big traveller population, there are quite a few sites and the biggest name I think still is Joe Boy Gaskin who is mentioned in the book; he's knocking on a bit and I think he's on the slide though I'd not say it to his face.

I like the part in the Bartley Gorman book where he has a fight in a pub and misses the man with a punch and knocks down a wall. I identified with that as it's happened to me.

My parents was stopping at the races there the week/day Gorman was mob attacked ,its was awful according to my mother , there was women and children screaming and running everywhere form what went on that day .
My dad aways told me the story of it growing up , he said they would have to beat Bartley gang handed because he was the type of man that was fearless and wasn't scared of anyone man ...he would turn to anyone anywhere .
I am good friends with the Gormans , good people , Jerry his nephew runs a decent white collar show UBL .

[hurlock]

Just reminiscing Hurlock. Have a day off.

Ok Davey boy!

Ain't Alvin slick miller from Doncaster can't call it Donny sounds like an Irish county ??

[jonny]

Just reminiscing Hurlock. Have a day off.

Ok Davey boy!

Ain't Alvin slick miller from Doncaster can't call it Donny sounds like an Irish county ??

Been some good fighters and good journey men from Doncaster

[orbtastic]

Kev "The Rock" Burton.

I saw Dean fight a few times and is a ref now, pretty sure I've seen him working.

[dapug]

There is only 1 legend from Doncaster and thats Bruce Woodcock

Amen

[johnty1888]

what about dean bramhald...... :)

I sparred with Dean when I was 17, with Kevin Plant and Ronnie Stevenson too; at the Tadcaster Arms in Armthorpe, in the cellar.

how did you get on
he fought my brother pat in the mid/late 80's[/quote]


I got my head kicked in every time I sparred; I was crap [/quote]

....that made me laugh most guys make them self sound better than they were ....
i got a boxing lesson off alan temple once it wasn't fun[/quote]


Where did you spar with Alan Temple at Stevedoc?

He was so gifted as an amateur, superb to watch but he never really transferred it to the pros.

[palooka]

Palooka would be your man but from what I've read, it is true.

The St Leger is a huge week in the racing calendar, there's a lot of travellers & Irish in town that week. The week before the races I believe it's bloodstock week too.

Sorry, I don't know a deal about it; I read the book and spoke to Bob Gaskin; he drinks in the little Plough from time to time; he said it was very exaggerated; I think only Gorman and his people called it the St Leger Massacre! I imagine that there's still a fair bit of challenge fights that goes on around the Leger but someone who has seen a few of these fights said that Appleby Horse Fair is a place where the pecking order can be sorted. Doncaster has got a really big traveller population, there are quite a few sites and the biggest name I think still is Joe Boy Gaskin who is mentioned in the book; he's knocking on a bit and I think he's on the slide though I'd not say it to his face.

I like the part in the Bartley Gorman book where he has a fight in a pub and misses the man with a punch and knocks down a wall. I identified with that as it's happened to me.

I thought it was exaggerated. I've asked other folk from down that way and they never heard of any of it. St Legers Day Massacre hahaha.

Did you punch a dolls house by any chance?

It was in Japan with the paper walls

[palooka]

Been some good fighters and good journey men from Doncaster[/quote]

Yep, Miller was from Doncaster. Other notable journeymen from the town have included Dave (John) Jules; Mick Cawdon; Ronnie Stephenson; Dave Croft; the Joyce brothers; and, of course, the aforementioned Dean Bramhald. In fact, loads of others, mainly fighting out of Johnny Rushton's stable. Better class boxers from Doncaster have included Bruce Woodcock, Jon Jo Irwin and nowadays Jamie McDonnell, of course. Many claim the most naturally talented fighter to come from the town was Pete Gabbitus though. He could have been top drawer but turned pro too early and was badly managed really. Never fulfilled his potential for a variety of reasons.[/quote]

Dave Croft passed away last year; he helped run an amateur gym (I think in Rossington); he was a nice fellow from all accounts.

I used to train at the Prince of Wales and Mick Preston the trainer was Gabbitus' uncle. He said that Peter was just a natural and good from the very first day; he also said that Peters brother, Dennis was as good but weren't bothered with the training etc.

Joel Forbes was a good amateur and turned pro but was always the away fighter and just boxed for the money; his dad was Arthur Forbes.

Dave John does a Northern Soul afternoon and evening at Baileys in the town centre on a Thursday and he loves to talk about his boxing days to fans - he plays some very good stuff too - had a couple of good writes up.

[stevedoc]

what about dean bramhald...... :)

I sparred with Dean when I was 17, with Kevin Plant and Ronnie Stevenson too; at the Tadcaster Arms in Armthorpe, in the cellar.

how did you get on
he fought my brother pat in the mid/late 80's

I got my head kicked in every time I sparred; I was crap [/quote]

....that made me laugh most guys make them self sound better than they were ....
i got a boxing lesson off alan temple once it wasn't fun[/quote]


Where did you spar with Alan Temple at Stevedoc?

He was so gifted as an amateur, superb to watch but he never really transferred it to the pros.[/quote]

it was at crystal palace training with the england team about 20 years ago ,my club was near by and i was brought in for sparring ...great boxer he was too

[palooka]

Dave Croft passed away - crikey, he must only have been in his late forties. That's sad.

Also, yes, I heard the same thing about Gabbitus' brother, Dennis. They were also related in some way to another Doncaster-based boxer, Steve Booth (via re-marriage of respective parents, I think). Booth was much more limited as a boxer, although he used to try and throw his weight around town a bit using the link to Gabbitus, who could be a nasty piece of work, and semi-friendships with other boxers of that era - Dave John, Daz Jones etc., who could also be naughty back in the day. Always found Booth quite an unpleasant little character to be frank.

When I first started to try and box I'd go to the Elmfield House and Booth boxed from there; he was a bit older than me and more advanced, some of the lads who'd been going a few years used to bash him up; he went out with a really tidy lass from our school (Balby Carr - Trish Holkier), I'd not recognise him now if I walked past him though I saw Pete Gabbitus the other day; his partner is lovely - such a pleasant woman; Gabbitus used to go to a few Northern do's but he was a bit superior and up for a fight to be liked. Dave John is in town every day and is a really mellow and funny man, no edge to him now at all. Daz Jones ran a team of bouncers for years and he bought the Warehouse (BYO) on North Bridge; they had an MMA gym upstairs. The late Daz Lazari boxed from Elmfield House and he was a scary man; he wanted a night out but had no money so went to fight the bouncers at Karisma for money; he beat them up but cut his hand wide open on their teeth, the barmy bastard went home and sewed it up and then came into town on the lash.

[jonny]

Mark Epton another good amateur turned pro had I think 6 fights won them all and walked away from the game. According to Brenden Ingle in his book he walked away because A young Naz bust him up in sparring

[palooka]

Mexbrough is injin country

[johnty1888]

Where did you spar with Alan Temple at Stevedoc?


He was so gifted as an amateur, superb to watch but he never really transferred it to the pros.[/quote]

it was at crystal palace training with the england team about 20 years ago ,my club was near by and i was brought in for sparring ...great boxer he was too[/quote]




Alan coaches novice pro Peter Cope now up in Hartlepool

[josco]

There is only 1 legend from Doncaster and thats Bruce Woodcock

x 2

[1 nut]

Does Doncaster have any legends ?

[Mimmy]

Does Doncaster have any legends ?

Didnt they teach you history at school? Doncaster has lots of legends

[Autobarn]

The Bartley Gorman 'massacre' thing may well be exaggerated in his book but the incident did happen. Danny Shenton was the guy Gorman was supposed to fight but Gorman was jumped and badly beaten - half killed apparently - before the scheduled fight could take place. Race week, '76 I think it was so most of the posters on here won't be able to remember it. I'm probably a bit older than the other Donny lads who post on here and I've got a brother a chunk older still who remembers all that lot.

By the way, race week is big in Doncaster but it's nothing like it was in the 70s, when it was massive. The whole town used to basically shut down for the week - all the factories, the pits, the plant works etc. Even the kids had the week off school back then, and the place was packed with all sorts of weird and wonderful characters. I know lads who used work on the doors back then. Apparently, it could get quite, well, 'lively' of a night back then...

I read (maybe wrong) Gorman pulled out of the fight and was then beaten up?

wasn't gorman a much bigger bloke than shenton?

paddy considine based his character's mannerisms and speech patterns on gorman, when he played morrell in ROOM FOR ROMEO BRASS.

[HomicideHenry]

It took place as stated. And no Gorman didn't back down.

Shenton left cus these people who hired him had murder on their minds and not a fair fight.

Gorman almost lost his leg cus one of the rival families tried to cut it off.

Also an iron bar was jammed down Gormans throat.


As for the bit in the book about the wall; Gorman said it was an old, deteriorating wall. So take from it what you will.

In an interview with his cousin Peter Fury he told me personally Battle had over 300 fights without a loss.

[Tomasino]

It took place as stated. And no Gorman didn't back down.

Shenton left cus these people who hired him had murder on their minds and not a fair fight.

Gorman almost lost his leg cus one of the rival families tried to cut it off.

Also an iron bar was jammed down Gormans throat.


As for the bit in the book about the wall; Gorman said it was an old, deteriorating wall. So take from it what you will.

In an interview with his cousin Peter Fury he told me personally Battle had over 300 fights without a loss.

You're just going off what was in the book, facts are very murky. I remember you going on about the Staffordshire Wolfman DD

If he had had 300 fights he would have said so in his book, instead his title defences were against guys in the pub.

[lefty]

This is an interesting thread lol

[HomicideHenry]

@ Tosmanio.... take it up with Peter Fury

[palooka]

It took place as stated. And no Gorman didn't back down.

Shenton left cus these people who hired him had murder on their minds and not a fair fight.

Gorman almost lost his leg cus one of the rival families tried to cut it off.

Also an iron bar was jammed down Gormans throat.


As for the bit in the book about the wall; Gorman said it was an old, deteriorating wall. So take from it what you will.

In an interview with his cousin Peter Fury he told me personally Battle had over 300 fights without a loss.

If he said it happened like that then it must have done; Bob Gaskin told me that it was all exaggerated for a good tale and for the book; generally in any situation there are 2 sides to a story and believing one side is in the absolute right and the other side altogether wrong is a nieve and childish way of looking at things.

I honestly don't know as I wasn't there though I'd be surprised if police officers were fainting and throwing up because the fighting was so bad and there was so much blood about.

If a top class fighter has over 300 bouts then he must be fighting men that just do not have a hope in hell; there are probably 40 or 50 really good heavyweight fighters in the country; if he'd cleaned all those up he'd have proved his point and not needed the other 250 scalps.

Bartley also met Muhammed Ali and fancied his chances against him and he reckoned his brother could have beaten Jerry Quarry.

He may have been a fantastic bare knuckle fighter and a decent man but I think he had a touch of the blarney about him.

[Tomasino]

@ Tosmanio.... take it up with Peter Fury

Why didn't Bartley boast about such a record in his own book then? I'm sure in 20 years time there will be a Fury or a Gorman saying Bartley had 1000 fights unbeaten, it's the nature of the beast.

[Tomasino]

It took place as stated. And no Gorman didn't back down.

Shenton left cus these people who hired him had murder on their minds and not a fair fight.

Gorman almost lost his leg cus one of the rival families tried to cut it off.

Also an iron bar was jammed down Gormans throat.


As for the bit in the book about the wall; Gorman said it was an old, deteriorating wall. So take from it what you will.

In an interview with his cousin Peter Fury he told me personally Battle had over 300 fights without a loss.

If he said it happened like that then it must have done; Bob Gaskin told me that it was all exaggerated for a good tale and for the book; generally in any situation there are 2 sides to a story and believing one side is in the absolute right and the other side altogether wrong is a nieve and childish way of looking at things.

I honestly don't know as I wasn't there though I'd be surprised if police officers were fainting and throwing up because the fighting was so bad and there was so much blood about.

If a top class fighter has over 300 bouts then he must be fighting men that just do not have a hope in hell; there are probably 40 or 50 really good heavyweight fighters in the country; if he'd cleaned all those up he'd have proved his point and not needed the other 250 scalps.

Bartley also met Muhammed Ali and fancied his chances against him and he reckoned his brother could have beaten Jerry Quarry.

He may have been a fantastic bare knuckle fighter and a decent man but I think he had a touch of the blarney about him.

No doubt the man could scrap. He also claimed to run the first unlicensed boxing organisation in UK. It sounded really cock and bull.


He also didn't bother with Pro boxing because it was beneath his skill level.