BoxRec

As to your question...no, reading is often believing. But when we get into comparisons....it gets to be like wrestling with Jello....words are just no substitute for forensics.

So comparing someones hitting power by way of anecdotals requires much in the way of faith. So if one is not mystical....it's hard to have this conversation. Now I AM the spiritual sort....so I'm open minded. But even so.....very difficult to judge power based on testimony

Another very hard-hitting featherweight was the "Japanese Sandman," Harold "Homicidal Hal" Hoshino, a American-born fighter of Japanese ancestry who was active during the 1930s and 1940s. Hoshino had very little in the way of boxing skills, but made things interesting because of his punching power. In 42 bouts during his career, he had 34 wins (including 27 knockouts), 6 losses (including 4 by knockout) and 2 draws.

- Chuck Johnston

BoxBuzz wrote:As to your question...no, reading is often believing. But when we get into comparisons....it gets to be like wrestling with Jello....words are just no substitute for forensics.

So comparing someones hitting power by way of anecdotals requires much in the way of faith. So if one is not mystical....it's hard to have this conversation. Now I AM the spiritual sort....so I'm open minded. But even so.....very difficult to judge power based on testimony

But when the testimony jells perfectly with the KO record, it makes for a pretty certain thing. You don't need footage of a punch putting a man down and the ref tolling 10 over his supine body to know that the punch was hard and the guy who delivered that punch has some serious power.

The evidence, anecdotal, newspaper round by round descriptions and KOs on record are all the evidence one needs to come to the obvious conclusion that Herrera was a harder-hitting and greater puncher than Naseem Hamed. The iron-jawed fighters he KO'd far outstrip any evidence supporting Hamed.

now calm down....your talkin' all batty now.


Or another way for me to say this.

I respectfully stand by my opinion. And I admire your faith.

Hamed deserves some real credit and a place in the hall of fame.

BoxBuzz wrote:now calm down....your talkin' all batty now.


Or another way for me to say this.

I respectfully stand by my opinion. And I admire your faith.

Perfectly calm. Not sure what's "batty" about it, but OK.

there is nothing batty about it. I just wanted to use that word....a word I seldom get to trot out.

It's not always about YOU ya know.

BoxBuzz wrote:there is nothing batty about it. I just wanted to use that word....a word I seldom get to trot out.

It's not always about YOU ya know.

I had a cousin who used to say "You know how the pitcher and the catcher meet on the mound during a baseball game, whispering through their gloves? Got some stunning news for you. They're not talking about YOU."

(I always liked that one :)

polecateddy wrote:Hamed deserves some real credit and a place in the hall of fame.

For beating.....?

Alp your point is a good one. His punching power outclasses his record.

Still at some point he probably deserves recognition....but not for his record. Which in some folks mind would disqualify his HOF membership. But if FAME is the question....he's got it clinched.

He caused a lot of enthusiasm for the game. And Alp..... I believe that if he would have had the WILL he might have impressed even you. lol But you could argue that it aint the "Hall of Potential" either.

I really wish he would have had it in him to parlay what he learned in his loss. But that's not what he was made of I guess.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

polecateddy wrote:Hamed deserves some real credit and a place in the hall of fame.

For beating.....?

Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelley, at least. He was a top pound for pound guy (not THE top) in his era, and beat serious fighters.

That's not nearly enough to deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. Besides, he looked bad against Kelly.

Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelly were both considered to be waning on the way in with Hamed.

Exciting as he was, I was utterly convinced that Barrera was going to wreck him. MAB was by far his best opponent, and I did not believe Hamed would be equipped to deal with such a complete package.

Tuan_Jim wrote:Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelly were both considered to be waning on the way in with Hamed.

Exciting as he was, I was utterly convinced that Barrera was going to wreck him. MAB was by far his best opponent, and I did not believe Hamed would be equipped to deal with such a complete package.

I agree, AND I believe MAB was one of the most cerebral fighters who ever lived.....and honed his skills, and pulled every bit of potential out of himself. Meld these two fighters and you have the best FW of all time. LOL.

Now, though I agree with what you say, MAB took a moment or two to have some fun with the Prince and make him look bad, AND he showed ultimate respect for the power that Naseem possessed. I'm not sure a Naseem/Morales face off would have turned out as bad for the Prince....because Morales just might have provoked a shootout. Which is all Naseem would have needed.

He wasn't the best, but he may have been the best in a single swing......and if the opportunity avails itself, that's all you need. MAB was NEVER going to allow that opportunity. Morales? He was as good as MAB, but not as smart.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelly were both considered to be waning on the way in with Hamed.

Exciting as he was, I was utterly convinced that Barrera was going to wreck him. MAB was by far his best opponent, and I did not believe Hamed would be equipped to deal with such a complete package.

I agree, AND I believe MAB was one of the most cerebral fighters who ever lived.....and honed his skills, and pulled every bit of potential out of himself. Meld these two fighters and you have the best FW of all time. LOL.

Now, though I agree with what you say, MAB took a moment or two to have some fun with the Prince and make him look bad, AND he showed ultimate respect for the power that Naseem possessed. I'm not sure a Naseem/Morales face off would have turned out as bad for the Prince....because Morales just might have provoked a shootout. Which is all Naseem would have needed.

He wasn't the best, but he may have been the best in a single swing......and if the opportunity avails itself, that's all you need. MAB was NEVER going to allow that opportunity. Morales? He was as good as MAB, but not as smart.

Barrera fought a very very smart fight, I remember the two times he came forward and didn't follow the gameplan perfectly he got a bit of a wakeup call and made sure he respected the power he was facing.

The prince will always be one of those what if stories to me, If he hadn't of been such a lazy twat he could of gone down as one of the best FWs ever IMO.

Hamed will always be, for me, the biggest "what if" in boxing history. He had every talent that a boxer can possibly use in spades except the one that really mattered - discipline.

I dunno. Did he really have that good of boxing skills? Did he really have that good of a jab, uppercut, hook etc? He was very unorthodox which caused some opponents problems but also led to poor balance.

Alp, his power was off the richter, he was one of the most athletic, and could throw at blinding speed at very strange angles.

If he had truly trained and chose a disciplined approach, combined with his talent, power and athleticism, he would have been unstoppable.

And yes, I know that that's sort of like saying if Ali was really slow, and not very ring smart he wouldn't have been half the fighter he turned out to be.

BoxBuzz wrote:Alp, his power was off the richter, he was one of the most athletic, and could throw at blinding speed at very strange angles.

If he had truly trained and chose a disciplined approach, combined with his talent, power and athleticism, he would have been unstoppable.

And yes, I know that that's sort of like saying if Ali was really slow, and not very ring smart he wouldn't have been half the fighter he turned out to be.

Certainly upto and including the Steve Robinson fight he would train 3 times a day at all times of the day and night apparently. He never did roadwork though and preferred to do all his training in the gym. I think by the Medina fight that spartan approach was already beginning to slide. That he still achieved so much is amazing really. He had brilliant power and reflexes, and gets judged far too harshly for the Barrera loss. If he'd gotten the Mexican early in his career it would have been a different story.

Ambling Alp II wrote:I dunno. Did he really have that good of boxing skills? Did he really have that good of a jab, uppercut, hook etc? He was very unorthodox which caused some opponents problems but also led to poor balance.

Watch some of his earlier fights and you can see the change in him as he got older and went from not only wanting to knock people out but wanting to outbox them while making it look easy and taking no damage. There's fights where even throws combos believe it or not. Make no mistake he was quite a skilled boxer but when he fell in love with his own hype and power and got lazy the skills declined and so did his inclination to use those skills.

p4p1 wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:I dunno. Did he really have that good of boxing skills? Did he really have that good of a jab, uppercut, hook etc? He was very unorthodox which caused some opponents problems but also led to poor balance.

Watch some of his earlier fights and you can see the change in him as he got older and went from not only wanting to knock people out but wanting to outbox them while making it look easy and taking no damage. There's fights where even throws combos believe it or not. Make no mistake he was quite a skilled boxer but when he fell in love with his own hype and power and got lazy the skills declined and so did his inclination to use those skills.

Agree 100%. He started to decline after the Vicenzo Belcastro fight IMO. I still think Barrera, Morales, JMM and Pacquiao would have done him over.

Named had exceptional power but fell in love with it, always looking for the big punch. There have been some fantastic talents mentioned in this thread and many of them had less raw power than Named but more bounce and skill to land it well. I think both Olivares and Arguello hit as hard and had much more patience and skill. I think Azumah Nelson at feather was a terrific puncher and maybe hit as hard punch for punch as Naseem.

I would say so. Not only that, but he was a great fighter. If he were to ever meet morales or pac, then he would have knocked both out.

He sort of won all 4 titles...in the individual one at a time way...but got stripped...or the belt holder got stripped juts before he fought them.

I agree that he feel in love with his power and too caught up in showboating. I also think he struggled with the weight as he got older. I know he claims to have been dead for the MAB fight. Losing to a great is no big deal. But what hurts him is not coming back from it.